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Posted: 4/26/2002 5:52:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2002 5:56:44 AM EDT by Kar98]
[url]http://www.n-tv.de/3007840.html[/url] Synopsis of the article in English: One of two amok runners still holed up in the building of the Gutenberg Highschool in Erfurt...casualties so far: a male teacher, a female teacher, a female cop...one student opened fire at the beginning of a math test, another ex-student who was expelled a few days ago showed up at the school, too, also armed...the latter's body was secured, cause of death "unclear"... 20 people still in the building, unclear if they are hostages of the surviving shooter...a sign with the word "Help!" pasted to a window in the third floor... Info-Hotline for parents and relatives: 001 49 361 - 260 68 47. to watch a live stream, click on the synbol of the video cam in the upper right corner of the page
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 5:58:05 AM EDT
Update: 18 dead so far.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:02:13 AM EDT
Don't they have some nasty gun laws in Germany? If so, how could this have happened (TFIC).
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:05:25 AM EDT
Pretty good shooting. Good body count.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:07:21 AM EDT
Fight4yourrights, We don't know that yet, we still have to get a total rounds fired count before we can determine the accuracy.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:11:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: Fight4yourrights, We don't know that yet, we still have to get a total rounds fired count before we can determine the accuracy.
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That's true, but still far better than the Buford Furor's of the world. 18 is pretty good for these crazed shooters, they usually don't manage to actually kill that many, considering the fact that the sprees usually occur in known, disarmed locations. IE: they have no opposition, they should be doing better than they usually do.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:25:58 AM EDT
Sounds like the first Cops on scene did good: Form a team, go in, and get the bad guys. That's where the one Cop got killed. If you won't put your life on the line for kids, who will you put your life on the line for: For that Cop, it was "a good day to die". Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:26:54 AM EDT
From Fox News: "It was Germany's second school shooting in recent months. In February, a 22-year-old German who recently lost his job, shot and killed two former bosses and his old high school's principal in a rampage outside Munich. "
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:29:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: If you won't put your life on the line for kids, who will you put your life on the line for: For that Cop, it was "a good day to die".
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AHEM, brother.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:29:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2002 6:32:01 AM EDT by platform389]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/26/germany.shooting/index.html[/url] Link to English CNN story.
The shooting coincided with a debate in the German parliament Friday on tightening gun control legislation,
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How interesting about the timing.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:32:47 AM EDT
The [url=http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bauerle/bathlink.htm]worst school killing[/url] in America:
Andrew Kehoe (45) The first mad bomber in U.S. soil, on May 18, 1927, Andy blew up a school in Bath, Michigan, killing 45 people, 37 of them children. After detonating explosives he planted under the school, "maniac bomber" Andrew Kehoe, a school board member and treasurer and farmer, blew up his pickup truck, killing himself and the Bath School superintendent.
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Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:36:59 AM EDT
Now watch, there will be the usual suspects calling for more gun control laws in [u]this[/u] country! Sorry, to hear about this tragedy, though. You need two policemen covering schools, and they should be separated. Well, actually, as a child of the 50s in Texas, you should really need none, but times they are a'changing. Eric The(Saddened)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:46:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2002 6:47:40 AM EDT by MKSheppard]
I posted lots of pictures from a german news site over at AW.net: [url]http://www.assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/225147.html[/url] To see them... Here's one: [img]http://62.27.62.152/slideshow/news/5696/020426_dpa_0625172.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:46:47 AM EDT
even wierder - I have an Erfurt Luger (1913) and Erfurt used to be one of the biggest arms production centers. Go figure...
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:55:34 AM EDT
Yet weirder: I was born 30 miles from there...
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 6:58:36 AM EDT
Teenagers are psychos. They should all be heavily medicated and forced to wear electronic ankle bracelets. Or else sent to an island till they turn 21. On a slightly hard hearted, but somewhat uplifting note, maybe now all the self righteous anti-gun EU idiots will stop thinking that only America has murderous psycho teens. The problem is not with the guns, it is with the twisted, propagandized, MTV generation. Which apparently they have also. All the gun laws Germany has could still not stop one mentally diseased teen from snapping and killing 18 people. Maybe the problem is the kids, not the guns.....ya think?
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:13:05 AM EDT
Good Lord.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:13:36 AM EDT
Couldn't be the teens, after all, how can one pass a law against being a teen? Just no doable. Of course they can pass many more gun laws, and that will be done. Of course, those laws will be as effective as trying to outlaw teenagers, but hey, it is for the children!
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:17:10 AM EDT
Europe has amongst the most restrictive and repressive gun laws in the World. Even so, watch out for the EU calling for MORE. They just don't get it. Thats why I moved to the US.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:58:49 AM EDT
The problem is not with the guns, it is with the twisted, propagandized, MTV generation.
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I have to wonder if part of the blame also lies in the large schools that many kids go to these days. Being just another face in a crowd of 500 to several thousand other students has to be dehumanizing. It's much harder to develop strong bonds with your classmates when it's virtually impossible to know more than a small fraction of them. True, there have always been relatively large schools in some of the urban areas, but nowdays the trend is towards putting a lot of students under the same roof even in suburban and rural areas. We need to get back to small schools.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:56:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skibane: I have to wonder if part of the blame also lies in the large schools that many kids go to these days. Being just another face in a crowd of 500 to several thousand other students has to be dehumanizing. It's much harder to develop strong bonds with your classmates when it's virtually impossible to know more than a small fraction of them.
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I don't think that theory works. How come you never hear about university shootings? I went to a rather large high school of about 2000 students and now I attend a university with...I don't even know how many... 30,000-40,000? Talk about being a face in a crowd....
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:03:04 AM EDT
The news stories that I've seen indicate that 15 of the 17 victims were adults. This suggests that the shooter(s) exercised a fair degree of marksmanship instead of just blasting randomly.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:16:08 AM EDT
I wonder is these wackos were on Ritalin, Prozac or some other behavior control drug like every one of the shooters here. If so do you think it will make the news? It didn't here.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:22:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Skibane: I have to wonder if part of the blame also lies in the large schools that many kids go to these days. Being just another face in a crowd of 500 to several thousand other students has to be dehumanizing. It's much harder to develop strong bonds with your classmates when it's virtually impossible to know more than a small fraction of them.
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I don't think that theory works. How come you never hear about university shootings? I went to a rather large high school of about 2000 students and now I attend a university with...I don't even know how many... 30,000-40,000? Talk about being a face in a crowd....
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i'd agree with zonan here. my high school contained about 2200 students on any given day (and it only had sophomore through senior, freshmen were at the junior highs!). my college maxed out my freshman year with just a hair over 1100 students. i actually knew more people in my high school than i did in college (mostly by choice!). yet in neither circumstance did i feel i was a faceless name or number. i think a lot of that lies upon the students to get involved. people can't know you if you don't say anything in class and don't participate in any activities. but i think it's a bit hypocritical to hear the someone complain about not being known when said someone doesn't make any attempt to get to know anybody else. why should others have to make the attempt?
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:49:27 AM EDT
I went to school in the 50s and 60s and I don't remember this kind of crap happening. I remember kids forming gangs and getting into "rumbles" with pipes and chains, but people didn't shoot each other. Worst thing I worried about was my white socks wearing out, whether or not my black pants were tight enough, and did the taps on my heels make enough noise. That and the girls, of course. Where is all this rage and hatred coming from, and why is killing seen as a fitting resolution to a minor problem?
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:51:11 AM EDT
How come you never hear about university shootings?
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It happens. Just back in January, Peter Odighizuwa killed three people at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, VA. However, it's possible that by the time students enter college, they've reached a maturity level that helps them better cope. Also, most of the high school shooters were problem kids (usually already kicked out of school) who wouldn't have gone on to college anyway.
my high school contained about 2200 students on any given day (and it only had sophomore through senior, freshmen were at the junior highs!). my college maxed out my freshman year with just a hair over 1100 students. i actually knew more people in my high school than i did in college (mostly by choice!). yet in neither circumstance did i feel i was a faceless name or number.
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I'm not saying that feeling "faceless" is mandatory in a large school — I'm saying that it's much more likely. All it takes is (literally) one out of a million kids. I graduated along with 52 other students. We knew each other and our teachers like an extended family. The idea of shooting each other would have been simply impossible under those conditions. I'd like to see some research on the incidence of high school shootings versus school size — Would bet that after the size drops below a certain threshold, the incidence per 1,000 students drops significantly.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:58:01 AM EDT
I have my own theories. As an experiment, I'd like to see all rock bands, rappers, and other performers play only Christmas carols and Protestant hymns, and maybe some Bach and Beethoven, for 1 year. Then see what happens to violence in the schools and workplace. I figure it will either disappear althogether or else increase wildly.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 10:26:06 AM EDT
Dunno, I grew up a 30 miles from that place, and they let us kids play with machine guns back then, under supervision; never even as much as crossed my mind to do such a thing.
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