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Posted: 4/24/2002 4:39:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2002 8:10:24 PM EDT by SS109]
CCW is almost here. Please call your state senators and tell them we need it. I even got my wife to call. To get their phone numbers, addresses & e-mails, go to [url/]www.colorado.gov[url/] Push your state senator. My senator even e-mailed me back. (edited to update) Has anyone seen the compromise bill?
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 6:25:05 PM EDT
I've contacted them and asked for their support of HB 1242. I also told them that HB 1410 was the biggest pile of crap to come down the pike since SB 83 of last year (and NONE of the state gun groups supported that one). The only significant difference between SB 83 of last year and HB 1410 of this year is the requirement for sheriffs to provide "documentable" proof when refusing to grant permits to applicants with a clean criminal record. Of course, nowhere in HB 1410 will you find any mention of standards for the documentation of said "proof". But, if you can always go to district court for a judicial review of the "evidence" against you, and with the right lawyer (read: MONEY), you will probably get your permit anyway. Just another "may-issue" bill masquerading as a "shall-issue" bill. But the CSSA is supporting this bill despite their condemnation of a nearly similar bill last year. Anybody want to try to explain that to me? The president and vice-president of the CSSA haven't been able to yet, despite the several email exchanges I've had with them. Their explanation is that this bill is a step forward. Well, so is being buried under only 100 pounds of manure daily, rather than a ton, but either way, it still smells bad. This isn't meant as a flame toward you, SS109. I fully support HB 1242 and have emailed or called several state legislators asking for their support of this bill over HB 1410. I'm just sick of the CSSA (and the NRA) trying to baffle people into believing that HB 1410 is good legislation. Jeff
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 10:04:33 PM EDT
HB 1242 is now dead, it has been indefinitely postponed in Senate committee. Yankee1911: What is so wrong with 1410? Yeah it is far from an ideal bill but it is better than what we have. You don't build Rome in a day right[:)] Here is a contact list that I set up to make it extreeemly easy to contact your Senators. [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=109889[/url] I will post it here as well. Don't get your hopes up SS109, you were the only one to respond to my call to arms and I'll bet that I am one of the few to respond to yours. There just really are not that many people who care. Sad.
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 10:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2002 10:06:13 PM EDT by Rickyj]
[red]It does not get any easier than this:[/red] Step #1 Click on the link below: [url]www.vote-smart.org/index.phtml[/url] Step #2 In the upper left hand corner there is a box for your zip code, enter it. Step #3 Information will come up in the right hand frame. Scroll down until your senate district number comes up, this should be the second to last listing. Step #4 Compare your district number to the list below: People in district numbers 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 16, 22, 23, 24, 27, 29, and 30 do not need to write their senator. These senators all received a grade of A or above from the NRA, the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, or Gun Owners of America and they are very likely to approve the bill. If you are in district number 5, 6, 13, 19, 21, 26 or 28 it is important that you write your senator. These senators are newly elected and can more likely be swayed if they see that there large public support for this bill. The senator in district 20 is on the fence, definitely write this senator if you live in this district. District numbers 14, 15, 18, 25, and 33 have senators that generally vote antigun but not always. Write them and ask them to approve bill HB02-1410, they are not as likely to do it but it is always possible if they feel that they may lose their next election if they vote against it. If you are in district 3, 17, 31, 32, 34, or 35 your senator is antigun. They will not be persuaded but it can not hurt to write them and tell them flat out they will lose your vote if they vote against HB02-1410. Step #5 Write your letter and send it quickly, there are less than twenty session days left. Here is a format that you can use: The Honorable (Your Senator) Address City, State Zip Code Dear Senator (Your Senators Last Name) Please SUPPORT HB02-1410 - Concerning the Issuance of Permits for Concealed Handguns. Creating new statewide standards for the issuance of concealed weapons permits is an area of great concern to the citizens of Colorado. The current method of issuing handgun permits is dangerous and outdated, and needs to be updated for public safety. I am sure that you are aware of the current problems in the methods of issuing permits so I will not repeat them here. HB02-1410 will fix many of these problems and create a safer and more reliable system for issuing concealed weapons permits. I realize that you may be morally opposed to the idea of having more guns on the streets of Colorado. Please do not oppose the bill because of this reason, people who carry guns for illegal purposes will not be affected by the passage of a permit law either way as they are not concerned with breaking the law. The people who will be affected by this law are the people in Colorado who are the most concerned with obeying the law. A frail grandmother being harassed by a local gang, or a woman being stalked by an abusive ex-husband are the people who you need to pass this bill for. Please allow the people of Colorado to legally protect themselves. Sincerely, (Your Name Signed) (Your Name Typed) Step #6 Tell your friends to complete steps 1-6. Note that the only bill left now is HB02-1410. This is sponsored by about a third of the Senators, so all we have to do is ask for it to get it. Come on guys, we missed our chance on 1242 lets not miss it on 1410.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 5:47:02 AM EDT
Back To The Top. I firmly believe 1/2 a loaf is better than none. My senator is anti-gun, but it can't hurt to call them.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 6:03:01 AM EDT
Rickyj, Thanks for all the info and footwork. I'll get a letter in the mail today. marvl
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 4:46:21 PM EDT
Good info above. Has anyone heard if anything was decided today?
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 9:07:07 PM EDT
[red]Update:[/red] Matsunaka just assigned HB02-1410 to a committee where it is (virtually) guaranteed to pass. Now it comes down to making it pass appropriations and we will have shall issue concealed carry. It will pass the Senate if it passes appropriations and Governor Owens will sign it. If your Senator is either Reeves in district 14 or Tate in district 33 please contact them in support of this bill now.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 11:37:39 AM EDT
I am going to keep bringing this up to the top to try to shame you lazy people into writing your Senators.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 8:18:29 AM EDT
Updated Info.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 8:52:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 8:56:29 AM EDT
Let's just hope they don't pull a "Wisconsin" on you. Best of luck.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 9:10:07 AM EDT
I firmly believe 1/2 a loaf is better than none.
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Unless with the 1/2 a loaf, you end-up not being able to get a permit anyway and there is less chance of changing an existing law than there is of getting a new, better law passed. I live in a state with the 1/2 a loaf. We're a shall-issue state on paper, but the permit issuance is controlled by the state police. They are anti-gun and consider themselves above the law. Also, until they do officially deny you, you do not have any recourse according to our CCW law. It's group you can't fight and can't make do their job. Fight for the whole loaf.z
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 9:17:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom:
I firmly believe 1/2 a loaf is better than none.
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Unless with the 1/2 a loaf, you end-up not being able to get a permit anyway and there is less chance of changing an existing law than there is of getting a new, better law passed. I live in a state with the 1/2 a loaf. We're a shall-issue state on paper, but the permit issuance is controlled by the state police. They are anti-gun and consider themselves above the law. Also, until they do officially deny you, you do not have any recourse according to our CCW law. It's group you can't fight and can't make do their job. Fight for the whole loaf.z
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Well said. Thanks zoom.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 3:54:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164:
Originally Posted By Rickyj: I am going to keep bringing this up to the top to try to shame you lazy people into writing your Senators.
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RJ, I am slow to anger, but you are getting my ire up, you act as if you are carrying this all by yourself, well you aren't. I have been doing my part, and as you and others have posted updates on AR15.com I have left this alone on here. You make LIBERAL assumptions that because nobody posts an answer to you that they don't care. Guess what, the world doesn't revolve around lil ricky. Berating people will not achieve your goal, and if you have contacted your senators with that attitude you have done more harm than good.
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Hey dude no offense but F*CK YOU. You have about 400 post in about less than 6 months (over 2 posts a day), so you are obviously not too busy to post on one of these topics. All I would ask for is a BTT or maybe a "yeah I did". I know I am not "holding this up on my own" but when both SS109s and my own posts about this fell straight to the bottom of the pile while stupid posts stay up at top with hundreds of responses I have a right to assume that the CCW posts are not being read and senators are not being contacted. Oh, and here is an update for you hothead: If you get mad at the sentence "I am going to keep bringing this up to the top to try to shame you lazy people into writing your Senators." then you are NOT slow to anger. Thanks again to every one who has written their senators. [:)] (Not you thedave1164, you can kiss my ass)
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 4:01:05 PM EDT
Musgrave was shot down yesterday. She wanted to make an ammendment that would make the only training needed would be a hunter safety course. Looks like the Guv had agreed to sign it if it passes.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 5:31:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 5:43:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2002 5:59:14 PM EDT by jtw2]
Originally Posted By Rickyj:
Originally Posted By thedave1164:
Originally Posted By Rickyj: I am going to keep bringing this up to the top to try to shame you lazy people into writing your Senators.
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RJ, I am slow to anger, but you are getting my ire up, you act as if you are carrying this all by yourself, well you aren't. I have been doing my part, and as you and others have posted updates on AR15.com I have left this alone on here. You make LIBERAL assumptions that because nobody posts an answer to you that they don't care. Guess what, the world doesn't revolve around lil ricky. Berating people will not achieve your goal, and if you have contacted your senators with that attitude you have done more harm than good.
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Hey dude no offense but F*CK YOU. You have about 400 post in about less than 6 months (over 2 posts a day), so you are obviously not too busy to post on one of these topics. All I would ask for is a BTT or maybe a "yeah I did". I know I am not "holding this up on my own" but when both SS109s and my own posts about this fell straight to the bottom of the pile while stupid posts stay up at top with hundreds of responses I have a right to assume that the CCW posts are not being read and senators are not being contacted. Oh, and here is an update for you hothead: If you get mad at the sentence "I am going to keep bringing this up to the top to try to shame you lazy people into writing your Senators." then you are NOT slow to anger. Thanks again to every one who has written their senators. [:)] (Not you thedave1164, you can kiss my ass)
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I was gonna reply as Dave did, but Dave beat me to it. How dare you presume that the only way to be involved is to respond to your posts (which I have, twice) and your list? Some of us DO know who our Reps are and are in regular contact. Thank you for the information, but do us all a favor and lose the condescending tone. Edited to add that Stan runs the Senate. This bill will pass. It's a slam dunk. Stan wants the bill so don't get your panties in such a bunch.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 6:24:05 PM EDT
Let's just get this clear, I don't think you have to respond to my posts or anyone elses to be involved in the political process. But not everbody is as involved in the political process as you. I want this to serve as an update to those who do not know. Do you think every Colorado member knows all about what is happening. I don't think so, some are too busy to be following this stuff around. I don't care who brings the CCW post up to the top, this is not even my thread. I care that you are not bringing SS109's post to the top. Let's get the word out. That's all I ask. BTW I am sure that it took a lot more time to write your response than it would have to write BTT. If you guys, dave and jtw2, are that offended by my posts why don't you just ignore them. Jeeeez.
Edited to add that Stan runs the Senate. This bill will pass. It's a slam dunk. Stan wants the bill so don't get your panties in such a bunch.
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Maybe not. Matsunaka may support it but the bill has to pass Appropriations first, and he can not force them to pass it. The Appropriations committee is half progun half anti, both chair and vicechair are anti. So it is not a definate slam dunk. I am going to wait to celebrate[:)] Sorry SS109, but with all this drama more people are sure to find out about the bill. (And my condescending evil ways [;)])
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 6:30:01 PM EDT
[Super happy not condescending we are all equals I love everyone I did not want to offend anyone I was just frustrated voice] HB02-1410 is going to be voted on in Appropriations tomorrow, lets all cross our fingers[:)] [/Super happy not condescending we are all equals I love everyone I did not want to offend anyone I was just frustrated voice]
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 7:41:51 AM EDT
I think it sucks. I already have my Colorado CCW and it will be revoked. I will need to get the new one that has more restrictions on places I can carry. Not a good thing for me. Guess because some live in a county with a sheriff that will not issue, the rest should suffer. Why not elect a pro-gun sheriff instead?
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 10:49:59 PM EDT
Rickyj, thanks for the info. You can consider me to be 100% on board. Some of the guys here need to relax. We are on the same team here people. Why don't we direct our energy where it will do some good. For the cause of freedom, and Against the fascist liberals.
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 10:58:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jvic: I think it sucks. I already have my Colorado CCW and it will be revoked. I will need to get the new one that has more restrictions on places I can carry. Not a good thing for me. Guess because some live in a county with a sheriff that will not issue, the rest should suffer. Why not elect a pro-gun sheriff instead?
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I understand the logic, but it sounds alot like, "F-you I got mine" Maybe if I were in your place, I feel the same. But I would like to think that I would have more empathy for the poor bastards in this state who are denied the rights that you take for granted. No offense, but your argument just sounds very self serving.
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 11:05:25 PM EDT
You are all aware of the RMGO's view on this, aren't you?
Link Posted: 5/3/2002 12:32:26 AM EDT
OK time for realpolitik 101! The stars and planets are aligned to get this done now. Sen. Matsunaka (D) wants it because he is running against Sen. Musgrave (R) in a strongly conservative (US) Congressional district. Matsunaka had effectively painted Musgrave into a corner (she's on the Ag committee) on Tuesday. She could have voted against 1410 (or effectively killed it with an amendment), then he (Matsunaka) could have crowed he was more gun friendly than her. Either way he wins because he was the one in the position to move it to the Agriculture committee (where it would pass) rather than the Sen. Judiciary where gun bills are normally killed. Gov. Owens wants this (1410) to pass. When Owens won last time (his first term), he won by a plurality which equated to 3 votes per precinct over the entire state. He is tired of having people waving photocopies of the Rocky Mountain News front page picture of him grinning like a fool while signing the petition to "Close the gun show loophole". He stepped on his pecker and he knows it. He wants to gain back some gunners. With the 3 vote per precinct margin conservative gun owners don't have to vote Democrat in this Fall's gubernatorial election, they just have to stay home, or worse yet vote Libertarian (what many threaten to do). Losing he just loses, if the Libertarians gain ground in the state on his watch he loses juice in the party and compromises his future political ambitions. First let me tell you this. We're from El Paso County. My wife and I have our permits and even if 1410 dies the new Sheriff will renew our permits. But we went up on Tuesday and testified for 1410 before the Ag committee. Why? because it's the right thing to do. All citizens of Colorado deserve an equal opportunity to defend their lives. The other thing is this: If we are not gaining ground then we are losing the battle for our rights. Sure rights are RIGHTS by God and we shouldn't have to fight to secure the same rights over and over again! Right? Well wake up! Rust never sleeps. CAUTION! Entrophy at work. If all the little closet commies I saw testify on Tuesday can stop this bill then that's a big win for the dark side. Recent history has shown that once a "shall issue" law is passed (ie: Texas) it will be improved upon. To understand this you need to hear testimony to the committees. First off, the senators know most of the anti gunners by their first names. It must always be the same ones. Tom Mauser (son killed a Columbine) (would he be protesting propane if those two turds had gotten one of their bombs off?), a Doctor from some physicians group, a Catholic Nun, lots of PTA (soccer?) moms, and school teachers, all spouting the same nonsense, blood in the streets, people shooting each other over traffic beefs, his dog crapped on the other guys lawn, we are a tourist state CCW holders from other states will flock here to shoot up the place. It's always the same Barbra Streisand. Yet this is what was "testified" to. And this is why it's so important to pass this "bad" CCW law. So many of the lies they peddle to the uninformed will be disproved in due course. After we have statewide CCW law in place for a while people will get accustomed to the idea, especially if a few lives are saved and it gets in the paper. Passing laws to amend and to improve the existing CCW law will be far easier then. OK rant mode off!
Link Posted: 5/3/2002 1:08:13 PM EDT
Hey TrickyVic, were you the one talking about helping the lady that was screaming in the parking garage? The one in the abusive relationship? If so you were a good speaker. Pretty selfless and caring of you to speak even though you are from El Paso. A lot of the people in El Paso forget how good we have it down there. You are right about needing to listen to the anti's speak, I had no idea what communists they were before that. Talking about the gunman in Germany, that virtually all permit holders became criminal, lies, lies, lies. ARRRRRGGGGHHHH! Just about made my head explode until the rational progun people started talking. Thanks
Link Posted: 5/3/2002 1:38:41 PM EDT
Rickyj, Yes, thank you, that was my wife and I. The one I forgot to mention was the kungfu school owner. She said you'd have to live with your finger on the trigger for a concealed gun to do any good. Obviously does not know what she talks about. What she wants is for everyone to take her classes and become a NINJA. Listen, I won't argue with getting into shape and knowing how to handle yourself. It's a good idea. But for crying out loud, what about people in a wheel chair? old people, people with degeneritive diseases, very small/weak people, how about a person who has lost a hand or an arm? Can you imagine someone with bad arthritis in their hands hitting someone? It ain't happenin'. You have to allow them something hard and heavy to hit people with (a weapon). If you have to let them have a weapon why not the most effective one available, a gun. Yes I know, if these people would think before they speak the silence would be deafening. The reality is that they spew this bushwa and some how saying it over and over again makes it real to some people. Vic.
Link Posted: 5/3/2002 5:55:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2002 7:06:27 AM EDT
hey guys, just an update. The bill was killed last night, but some political proceeduring revived it and it looks like it will be a done deal today. I'll try and keep you posted.
Link Posted: 5/8/2002 8:30:08 AM EDT
And it's DEAD again thanks to the demorats [pissed]
Link Posted: 5/8/2002 5:19:50 PM EDT
I must have missed something, I thought that the house tacked it onto senate bill 229 and that passed. What happened?
Link Posted: 5/8/2002 6:03:49 PM EDT
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners wants it to fail, they think a stronger bill will pass next year. Personally I don't want to wait one more year counting on the Colorado Senate to go Republican. I think Colorado is becoming more like California and lets get these pro-gun bills passed now.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 2:08:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj: I must have missed something, I thought that the house tacked it onto senate bill 229 and that passed. What happened?
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That's what I thought too Ricky. I'm having a hell of a time finding out what finally ended up happening.... first to find out please let the rest of us know...
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 9:38:49 AM EDT
Did anybody find out what happened?
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 9:49:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2002 9:50:39 AM EDT by Yankee1911]
From the RMGO site... "Fortunately, SB229 never saw a vote in the Senate. This was due in large part to Senate Majority Leader Bill Thiebaut's refusal to allow a vote, as well as the conservatives who made it known that they weren't going to support a bad bill. In other words, had SB229/HB1410 made it to the Senate floor, it likely would have died anyway." [url]http://www.rmgo.org/endsession.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 5:47:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 10:35:53 PM EDT
Damn, politics is a frustrating bidness.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 12:33:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: I was talking to the CSSA rep at a gunshow today. It sounds like the Democrats were attempting to get all the mileage they could out of this bill, and aparently the Republicans didn't want this bill to hit due to possibly watering it down or attaching some more restrictive ammendments to it prior to a full vote.
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Interesting. Did the CSSA rep give you any indication as to what their position is on the decision of the Republicans to kill 1410? I'm VERY curious if they support the decision at this point. Dave, If you don't mind, please let me know what the rep told you. If you'd rather not post it here and make it public, send me an IM. Unfortunately, my email isn't working at this time. Thanks, Jeff
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