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Posted: 4/23/2002 8:49:14 AM EDT
God's Promises that cannot be broken [url]http://www.khouse.org/articles/currentevents/20000101-191.html[/url]
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:15:04 AM EDT
They certainly can be broken, particularly if one is ignoring them to begin with. the_reject
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:16:39 AM EDT
An interesting read indeed. Now stand by and see what that link shakes loose from the "opposite camp". Certainly it will be entertaining. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:21:25 AM EDT
[i]"As politicians continue to meddle in the region, we need to remember the Biblical basis of Israel's right to the land. It doesn't belong to the Palestinians... or to the UN...or to the U.S...or even Israel! It is the Lord's."[/i] Is he paying taxes on it? Get Powell out of there and let "the lord" clean up his own backyard. Pure, Unadaulterated, 100%, Grade A, Bullshit!
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:35:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2002 9:59:24 AM EDT by garandman]
Oh, goody. Let's DO talk "Covenants." THIS one is pretty clear - with BOTH a blessing AND A CURSE. AND a statement how to return to the land, and the blessings of God. I will highlight the relevant parts: Leviticus 26 3 [b]If [/b]ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; 4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 15 [b]And[/b] if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, .... 17 And I will set my face against you, and [b]ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you[/b] 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33 [b]And I will scatter you among the heathen, [/b]and will draw out a sword after you: and [b]your land shall be desolate,[/b] and your cities waste. 40 [b]If they shall confess their iniquity, [/b]and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; 41 [b]....if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:[/b] 42 [b]Then[/b] will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land ___________________ The Israel supporters ONLY cite the good parts of the Covenant, and IGNORE the rest of the conditional covenant. This is an "if....then" covenant, with "then" provision for BOTH obedience AND disobedience. We've already seen many of the negative terms of the Covenant fulfilled - "scattered among the heathen, those that hate you shall rule over you" The Covenant ALSO provides for return to the land - and that was ONLY thru repentance, confession, and humbling themselves before the Lord. NOT that you hear any of the so-called "religious" folk around here advocating THAT part of the covenant. [rolleyes] Its shameful, really. God's Word is NOT a menu, you pick and choose from. Since Israel today REMAINS in a state of disobedience, we KNOW that (edited for clarity) [strike]the current happenings [/strike] the attempts to return Israel to the land today are NOT due to the Covenant of God, but the machinations of men. For repentance and obedience MUST, according to the Covenant, preceed a God-ordained return to the land. We see this pattern repeated several times in the OT.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:45:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2002 9:48:04 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
we KNOW that the current happenings are NOT due to the Covenant of God, but the workings of men.
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I think that these indeed are the workings of the Lord, for if a Man is obedient to the Lord in his Mind and Actions then you recieve the good convenant and if he is not Obedient in his Mind to the Lord then you receive the Negative covenant.
And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you
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In this you see the Palestinians focused only on Israel , and trying to destroy Israel. They are not focused on doing for themselves, hence THE LORD HAS SET HIS FACE AGAINST THEM. And since the Palestinians are only focused on ISRAEL, IN THEIR OWN MINDS, "THEY THAT HATE YOU SHALL REIGN OVER YOU." It works the same for each and every one of us, and as go, people so go nations. I guess it is a covenant to TEND TO ONES OWN LIFE,AFFAIRS, AND BUSINESS. Some of the Palestinians are not doing this. Ben
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:47:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: 41 ....if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled.
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Another reason why I am not Jewish, I'll be damned if someone is gonna uncircumcise my heart!
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 10:19:26 AM EDT
While I'm sure the authors intentions are honorable (albeit his leanings QUITE transparent) this type of article is among the most dangerous of forms of religion. Where they simply make passing reference to a Scripture text, ASSIGN IT a meaning, and NEVER actually exegete / expound the text, word by word, as one ought. To this author.... No need FOR THE INDIVIDUAL to research the context of the text. No need FOR THE INDIVIDUAL to compare Scripture with Scripture. No need FOR THE INDIVIDUAL to get the Apostles or even Christ's explanations of OT texts thru careful study. Just a simple "Here's what it means - don't ask questions." Its a bubblegum treatment to the WHOLE of man's existence. And not entirely the authors fault - also partly the readers. I too could give you an explanation of the Covenants. But I WOULD NOT insult you with a "turn off your brain, here's what you need to believe" diatribe (my opinion of the article). I would take MUCH more time to do ALL the homework necessary, and give a complete Scriptural treatment...... [b]AND MOST IMPORTANTLY [/b] .....I would present ALL RELEVANT portions of Scripture, teh ACTUAL text, so that YOU could extract the meanings yourself. NOT just give you a "trust me" interpretation. This stuff is dangerous, no matter how good the intentions. I won't go point by point, just admonish the reader to "SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES, to see if these things be true." (Acts 17: 11)
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 5:30:31 PM EDT
It seems that the most serious Jewish scholars around oppose Israel's actions: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020423/capt.1019520833.capital_protests_wx151.jpg[/img] [url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020423/168/1fptq.html[/url] and they do so on the basis of their own prophecies. Notice the sign of the guy on the right: "Jews are forbidden to have their own state before the coming of the Messiah". So is Sharon the Messiah?? Or are the Israelis ignoring their own religious "justification" for having seized Palestinian lands?
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 5:36:54 PM EDT
And another group, a few days earlier: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020423/capt.1019559472.capital_protests_wx167.jpg[/img] [url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020423/168/1fspw.html[/url] A group of Hassidic Jews from New York march side by side with protestors for Palestinian solidarity in Washington Saturday, April 20, 2002, on the occasion of the IMF - World Bank spring meetings. Tens of thousands of demonstrators protesting against globalization, U.S. policy in the Mideast and other issues spread out at sites across the capital Saturday. (AP Photo/Stephen J. Boitano)
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 4:18:40 AM EDT
Gotta bump this back up to the top. I can't ascertain the veracity of these pictures, but if they are what they appear to be, at least its refreshing to see some Jewish persons who DO care about what Scripture says (even tho I may disagree with a few technical specifics of their interpretation) NOTE the sign in the first pic: [size=4]"Jews are forbidden to have their own state before the coming of the Messiah".[/size=4] Making me think that while Sharone CLAIMS God is on his side, and the Old Testament is his justification, NOT ALL Jews agree with him, and are of the opinion that Sharone is demonstrating little more than a raw, naked campaign of aggression. And the terror bombings are a convennient excuse to do what he has always wanted to do. The FIRST rule of criminal investigation in searching for suspects is to ask "Who REALLY benefits from the crime?" Hhmmmm. Maybe Arafat is NOT the ONLY one abusing the authority his people elected him to. Which Sharone is free to do, and ya'll are free to support, [b] QUIT SAYING SCRIPTURE BACKS Y'ALL UP!!!!!!!!!!!![/b] It DON'T!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 5:29:19 AM EDT
The NY Hassidic sect pictured has always opposed the formation of Israel before the coming of the Messiah...guess what achy...Messiah is already here....so go tell them will ya please they need to know.. :) Funny seeing just who Gman's fellow travelers are these days Yes Gman the Covenants come with conditions...but the covenant isnt the condition..the covenant the promise of God still remains imo...and the people He made it to still exist..the blood line of Abraham Isaac and Jacob..The genetic descendants..Yes I have heard the counterarguments to this already.The Nazis made some dandies..There are many good sound reasons to back Israel ...to abandon them to me...is like having deserted my South Vietnamese friends, the Hmong, the Nung, and the Yards Your interpretation is not the one I follow. I do appreciate your hard work and research.Spare me the hyperbole about dangerous or poisonous doctrine..it is neither.it is simply an attempt at ascertaining what God has to say about things.Go to any Christian book store and you will find tons of controversial theory in Eschatology tons.. ..try to keep in mind that the essentials for salvation are much different than the theories you me and others purport and have little to do with salvation...more entertainment than essentials I have listned to pre mid and post trib post millenialists..amillenialists pre millienialsts ad infinitum. Calvinists and Arminianists There are more sects and differening particulars than I care to explore...We see as through a glass darkly...we see in part and we prophecy in part. I am a supporter of modern day Israel for a number of reasons ...tactically being one of them..democracy being another...opposed to terrorism its nurturing and spread...and Islam trying to take over my country and make it into a satanic theocracy as it has in the middle east... I dont even want America as a theocracy...I would like her morals cleaned up and her people represented by honest men and defended by the same.. To allow the Palestinian terrorists to hide among their own people use them as shields then blame the Israelis for murder is insane..its is third way commie islamic bullshit..it is a lie... To say the Jews of modern Israel are not under Gods covenant is arrogant and imo takes one's religious authority a bit to far...I will agree to disagree with you Gman Achmed...go hump somebody elses leg...you intellectual Chihuahua...:) Gman try to keep your pets inline please. If I have to choose between Israel and whats left...I take Israel every time...I know who I want for allies and who will stab us in the back first chance they get. I will even take Israel over the commie Euro trash.
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 6:33:17 AM EDT
There's an old saying: get two Jews together, they'll have three opinions.
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 6:55:54 AM EDT
Ya know, you guys are like a broken record. Whenever no answers are available for legitimate questions, you always fall back to pre-recorded messages. [rolleyes] To wit...
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Funny seeing just who Gman's fellow travelers are these days
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I already told you NOT to try to associate me with anyone else. UNLESS you want me to associate you with faggot, pervert, child molestors who kill puppies with meat cleavers just for fun. LET'S NOT GO THERE, OK???? Cease and desist.
Yes, G-man the covenants come with conditions...but the covenant isnt the condition..the covenant the promise of God still remains imo...
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So as with MOST israel supporters, your opinion supercedes God's clear, unmistakeable Word. Its in BLACK AND WHITE above. Read it, know it, bring you opinion in line with it.
and the people He made it to still exist..the blood line of Abraham Isaac and Jacob..The genetic descendants..Yes I have heard the counterarguments to this already.The Nazis made some dandies..
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[b] WHEN ARE THE PANTY WASTE MODS GONNA STOP FRICKS LIKE DIVDOC FROM USING THE "NAZI" SMEAR??? [/b]
There are many good sound reasons to back Israel ...I am a supporter of modern day Israel for a number of reasons ...tactically being one of them..democracy being another...opposed to terrorism its nurturing and spread...and Islam trying to take over my country and make it into a satanic theocracy as it has in the middle east...
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I have already addressed ALL of these. And shown if you REALLY hold to these principles, you MUST also be AS rabid in your support of Taiwan and RoK as you are in support of Israel. I DO NOT hear that type of support from you Israel supporters, so I beleive you motivations are OTHER THAN the pieties you regurgitate every time an Israel discussion comes up.
Your interpretation is not the one I follow.
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For like the gazillionth time - it is NOT my interpretation. IT'S GOD's WORD (which I realize is secondary to your opinion) Read Jeremiah. No repentance and obedience, no land. Know repentance and obedience, know land. Its black letter.
I do appreciate your hard work and research.Spare me the hyperbole about dangerous or poisonous doctrine..it is neither.it is simply an attempt at ascertaining what God has to say about things.Go to any Christian book store and you will find tons of controversial theory in Eschatology tons.. ..
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Yup. And all those books do what that bozo author SHOULD have done - give the subject SERIOUS treatment. Not the "bubblegum / here's what you need to beleive, don;t ask questions" treatment that he did give. Besides, could the guy be ANY MORE biased?? He has all the weight of Ariel Sharone as an unbiased, clinical researcher. Which is NONE.
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 6:59:33 AM EDT
(con't)
To say the Jews of modern Israel are not under Gods covenant is arrogant and imo takes one's religious authority a bit to far...I will agree to disagree with you Gman
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Whoa there boy. You just called God "arrogant." I did nothing more than quote God's Word. God's clear statement is that when in disobedience, the Jews would be dispossessed of the land. Jewish history is REPLETE with evidences that that is EXACTLY what Jeremiah meant. Since the Jews remain in a state of disobedince (i.e. on their way to hell, something you seem COMPLETELY unconcerned about) we KNOW that their current possession of the land is NOT of God, but of man. I'd say God has all the "religious authority" He needs to make such a statement. Apparently you think God needs to "check with you."
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 7:37:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2002 8:04:46 AM EDT by ParaPyroPig]
Those afflicted with scrupulosity crack me up. (Heathen Pig from the opposite camp raises his hand) Ummmm.... Of which "god(s)" art thou speaking? Jewish? Islamic? Hindu? Greek? Roman? Teutonic? Incan? Sumerian? Egyptian? (Big sigh..) Sorry - I'll stop now - I don't want to be labled a [:K] You will believe in whatever gods you wish and I will not. Let's justtalk about guns, mmm'kay?[BD] P3[pyro][^][heavy] edited cuz ah not zpellin 2 guud
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 7:50:17 AM EDT
The messiah is here, I was born in 1962, let the land be granted to whoever wants it the most. So sayeth Hielo, go forth and let them know!
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 8:06:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ParaPyroPig: Those afflicted with scupulosity crack me up.
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Please check with our resident self-proclaimed messiah, hielo, to see if "scrupulo[b]u[/b]sity" is a word. messiahs know stuff like that. Bad news: I don't think it is. Good news: Since it ain't a word, you didn't misspell it. [:D]
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 8:08:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: The messiah is here, I was born in 1962, let the land be granted to whoever wants it the most. So sayeth Hielo, go forth and let them know!
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You don't look like I imagined the AntiChrist. How do you feel about the number 666? [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 8:32:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2002 8:38:06 AM EDT by ParaPyroPig]
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By ParaPyroPig: Those afflicted with scupulosity crack me up.
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Please check with our resident self-proclaimed messiah, hielo, to see if "scrupulo[b]u[/b]sity" is a word. messiahs know stuff like that. Bad news: I don't think it is. Good news: Since it ain't a word, you didn't misspell it. [:D]
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Ummmmmmmm... The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (for psychiatric disorders) catalogs those as being pathologically religious as such. BTW, thanks for the spellcheck.[:D] P3[pyro][^][heavy]
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 8:56:13 AM EDT
Israel exists today because of the work of Zionists, not God and not his covenant with the Jews, quit bullshiting yourselves.
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