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Posted: 4/22/2002 4:09:36 AM EDT
I was browsing Midway this morning and ran across this. [url]www.midwayusa.com/lawsuit.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:26:49 AM EDT
How bizarre. Brownells USED to have an 800 number. I was looking on their website last week, and they didn't have any of the (commonly used, frequently purchased -- at least in my segment of gun-nuttery) items I was looking for. This was surprising, since they used to stock one or two of anything, no matter how unnecessary or redundant it was.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:36:31 AM EDT
Oh, for Pete's sake. That's right up there with Harley trying to patent the noise their bikes make. Bet the antis are cracking up.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:43:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 4:44:55 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
Brownells (sic) USED to have an 800 number.
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I've bought things from Brownell's for over twenty years and they have NEVER had an 800 number. Their area code has changed, but that's about it. Even so, I prefer Brownell's over Midway for lots of reasons:[list][*]Better dealer prices[/*][*]Fixed shipping costs[/*][*]Better selection[/*][*]No minimum order[/*][*]A technical department that does more than answer the telephone[/*][*]A longer established reputation than Midway[/*][/list] You must not've been looking too hard on Brownell's site. I don't think you can trust the Potterfield family any further than you can throw them.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:48:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:59:22 AM EDT
Great, MIDWAYUSA.COM is now on the filter restriction list at my job [whacko]. Course I can still click on the biggest piece of journalistic trash of all time WASHINGTONPOST.COM [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 6:04:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Brownells (sic) USED to have an 800 number.
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I've bought things from Brownell's for over twenty years and they have NEVER had an 800 number. Their area code has changed, but that's about it. Even so, I prefer Brownell's over Midway for lots of reasons:[list][*]Better dealer prices[/*][*]Fixed shipping costs[/*][*]Better selection[/*][*]No minimum order[/*][*]A technical department that does more than answer the telephone[/*][*]A longer established reputation than Midway[/*][/list] You must not've been looking too hard on Brownell's site. I don't think you can trust the Potterfield family any further than you can throw them.
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Couldn't have been said better! Esp. the tech dept.!
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 6:15:29 AM EDT
I buy some things at Brownells, some at Midway. Brownells doesn't have lots of things Midway has for reloading and supplies. While they do have a lot of gunsmithing items.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 6:29:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 7:16:42 AM EDT by marvl]
This is what happens when CEOs and lawyers have nothing better to do, which is most of the time. I wonder if I can sue Brownells because looking at every page in their catalog has given me carpal tunnel syndrome? I should call my lawyer. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:05:03 AM EDT
My question would be, why can't a big outfit like Midway be original enough to come up with a caralog layout that doesn't copy someone elses idea/design. Don't suppose they were trying to rip off an idea do you? I don't blame Brownells. Ever since they changed their policy about shipping charges I have been more and more disappointed in Midway. Graf & Sons or Natchez Shooter's Supply has better deals on reloading stiff anyway.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:21:36 AM EDT
When I first saw Midways gunsmithing catalog it immediately reminded me of the Brownells catalog.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:22:48 AM EDT
A longer established reputation than Midway
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I'm not a big Midway fan, but IMO Brownell's has tarnished their established reputation. This lawsuit will accomplish absolutely nothing positive for Brownell's, Midway or, more importantly, the shooting community. In the end, guess who loses? Sad. Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:56:28 AM EDT
This lawsuit will accomplish absolutely nothing positive for Brownell's, Midway or, more importantly, the shooting community. In the end, guess who loses?
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Midway has for a long time sold a lot of Brownell's proprietary products. Now they come along and offer a gunsmithing catalog with the same things as Brownell's, including Brownell's branded items, in the same layout and format. So then Brownell's files a lawsuit telling them to knock it off. Must be something to it if Midway has resorted to the tactic of sensationalizing it on their website rather than getting it dismissed (they called it frivolous).
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:00:19 AM EDT
Brownells SUCKS big time. I tried to buy a ZM upper from them and they were total aholes about it. Whoever answers the phone(some old fart) costthem my business for eternity. No surprise they are doing the frivilous lawsuit thing. I guess they need to make money some way since any decent gun owner would not buy from them. O well, they will be out of business within a year for this lawsuit. When Brownells changes their name to attempt to stay in business we must make sure to take notice and NOT order from that company as well.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:00:20 AM EDT
Well, I suppose that may explain why I didn't get Midway's "Affordable Gunsmithing" catalog along with the others I ordered. As a result, I haven't seen Midway's catalog to compare, but the lawsuit over such really seems silly and very petty on Brownell's part. It seems like they are doing this simply because of Midway's attempt to work itself more into the 'smithing side of business where the used to be mostly reloading supplies. As far as Brownell's vs. Midway's pricing, I find the Brownell's typically offers a bigger dealer discount - lots of stuff up to 33%+ off of their retail price while Midway is often only 5-10%. However, Midway's retail price is often less, so even though the discount is less, the bottom line price is often similar. It seems like Midway generally caters to the consumer, while Brownell's to the dealer. The $60 miniumum order at Midway for dealers sucks, though. Then again, Brownell's often doesn't discount anything considered to be a tool as well. Brownell's selection is definitely better, but their website sort of sucks - they should have a way to browse by category instead of just manufacturer. I find it easier to just go to their catalog most times instead of their site. Rocko
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:09:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 12:03:42 PM EDT by Am-O-Tramp]
In the mail order game I buy from who ever is the cheapest. Better dealer prices, than let the dealers buy it all. They just don't like or want Midways competition. And what's with all you free traders, I just started to believe in your global market bull, is competition a good thing or not, which is it?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:16:34 AM EDT
They just don't like or want Midways competition.
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It's not the competition they mind, it's the fact that Midway is masquerading as Brownell's while trying to be a gunsmith supply house.
Brownells SUCKS big time. I tried to buy a ZM upper from them and they were total aholes about it. Whoever answers the phone(some old fart) costthem my business for eternity. No surprise they are doing the frivilous lawsuit thing. I guess they need to make money some way since any decent gun owner would not buy from them. O well, they will be out of business within a year for this lawsuit. When Brownells changes their name to attempt to stay in business we must make sure to take notice and NOT order from that company as well.
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This is just too damned stupid to offer a reasoned reply.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:41:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 8:42:02 AM EDT by LS1Eddie]
Midway has for a long time sold a lot of Brownell's proprietary products. Now they come along and offer a gunsmithing catalog with the same things as Brownell's, including Brownell's branded items, in the same layout and format.
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Darned free enterprise system.
So then Brownell's files a lawsuit telling them to knock it off. Must be something to it if Midway has resorted to the tactic of sensationalizing it on their website rather than getting it dismissed (they called it frivolous).
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In the great U.S. of A. nothing sensationalizes something more than filing a lawsuit.
It's not the competition they mind, it's the fact that Midway is masquerading as Brownell's while trying to be a gunsmith supply house.
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Maybe I just don't see the problem, since I can spot a Brownell's vs. Midway catalog, regardless of the format and layout.
Brownell's selection is definitely better, but their website sort of sucks - they should have a way to browse by category instead of just manufacturer.
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Better selection? You bet. Website sucks? You bet!
In the mail order game I buy from who ever is the cheapest. Better dealer prices, than let the dealers buy it all.
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Amen. No single company has earned the kind of loyalty I see here. In the end, we the shooters lose. Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:47:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 8:50:18 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
Nooooooooooo, you're still not seeing it. Midway is trying to pass themselves off as Brownell's. There's no free enterprise about it. It's just a ripoff.
Maybe I just don't see the problem, since I can spot a Brownell's vs. Midway catalog, regardless of the format and layout.
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Have you seen the Midway gunsmithing catalog? We're not talking about that bulk mail trash that Midway sends out every month. BTW, Midway's site ain't no picnic to navigate.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:02:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 9:09:49 AM EDT by LS1Eddie]
Nooooooooooo, you're still not seeing it.
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You're correct, I don't see a problem.
Midway is trying to pass themselves off as Brownell's. There's no free enterprise about it. It's just a ripoff.
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Has Brownell's copyrighted or patented their catalog format and layout? If not, maybe they should have, although I don't think it would pass muster for either. You sound like the kid who set up a lemonade stand and got ticked when the kid next door did the same a week later and even had the gall to use the same color paint. Anyone moronic enough to not know what company he/she is ordering from shouldn't own a phone (or computer).
Have you seen the Midway gunsmithing catalog? We're not talking about that bulk mail trash that Midway sends out every month. BTW, Midway's site ain't no picnic to navigate.
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Received one several weeks ago. I never once thought I was looking at a Brownell's catalog. Maybe I'm just a more critical reader. For whatever reason Midway has put a bad taste in your mouth which explains your defense of Brownell's. I'm not on either side. I'm on the side paying the legal fees: me, the consumer. Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:19:47 AM EDT
Has Brownell's copyrighted or patented their catalog format and layout?
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Gee, I think that's what they're claiming.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:43:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar50troll: Brownells SUCKS big time. I tried to buy a ZM upper from them and they were total aholes about it. Whoever answers the phone(some old fart) costthem my business for eternity. No surprise they are doing the frivilous lawsuit thing. I guess they need to make money some way since any decent gun owner would not buy from them. O well, they will be out of business within a year for this lawsuit. When Brownells changes their name to attempt to stay in business we must make sure to take notice and NOT order from that company as well.
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Hmmm, that's odd. I've never been treated rudely by anybody at Brownells. And I've posed some fairly stupid questions to the folks in the tech. department, too. The last time I called them was concerning an instruction sheet I had lost for a bluing chemical. Guess what--they opened up a package of the chemical in their warehouse to get the instructions and faxed it to me about 15 minutes after I called. And this was during the lunch hour when the secretaries were out of the office. Pretty damn good customer service in my book. Factor in the $6.75 shipping charge for just about anything in the catalog and you can't beat them. Sorry dude, but it'll be a chilly day for Satan when I decide to boycott Brownells.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:00:54 AM EDT
It's pretty clear that Midway is moving more into the gunsmithing products that have long been the domain of Brownells. I've received both catalogs from both companies and have no problems telling them apart. I enjoy doing business with both companies. I wish that general retail sales had the same level of customer service and guaranteed satisfaction that both Midway and Brownells espouse. For a non-dealer, Brownells charges a premium price for gunsmithing items. Perhaps Midway sees a way to compete with them favorably on price and Brownells sees a diminishing margin. This could be simply sour grapes on Brownells part.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:27:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 10:28:21 AM EDT by LS1Eddie]
The Brownells lawsuit claims their catalog design is "unique and inherently distinctive" because of the following features: 1. "Horizontal elongated rectangular shape" 2. "Binding on the short side" 3. "Quick index on the back cover" 4. "Cover material of coated stock" 5. "Four-column layout on inside pages" 6. "Use of a 'banner' containing ordering information and instructions at the bottom of each page" 7. "'Boxed' advertising on the back cover" Brownells is asking the court for damages exceeding $75,000 and requests that MidwayUSA "be permanently restrained and enjoined from further distribution of their catalog; and that any infringing catalogs be destroyed."
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Has Brownell's copyrighted or patented their catalog format and layout? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gee, I think that's what they're claiming.
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Gee, I missed the words copyright and/or patent infringement. Where did you find them? I still fail to see how this alone will take business away from Brownell's. Unless they believe their customers too stupid to differentiate the name Brownell's from MidwayUSA. Maybe they're on to something, afterall. While Brownell's could stop Midway from distrubuting the catalogs, I can't imagine how they would prove damages. Maybe a customer would testify, "I thought I was ordering from Brownell's. I didn't realize it was Midway until the package arrived." Of course, I doubt said customer would be allowed off the grounds of the sanitarium. Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:35:05 AM EDT
Gee, I missed the words copyright and/or patent infringement. Where did you find them?
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Gee, Eddie, I think I said that was Brownell's claim.
While Brownell's could stop Midway from distrubuting the catalogs, I can't imagine how they would prove damages. Maybe a customer would testify, "I thought I was ordering from Brownell's. I didn't realize it was Midway until the package arrived." Of course, I doubt said customer would be allowed off the grounds of the sanitarium.
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You've been let out. What's the problem there?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:37:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy: Nooooooooooo, you're still not seeing it. Midway is trying to pass themselves off as Brownell's. There's no free enterprise about it. It's just a ripoff.
Maybe I just don't see the problem, since I can spot a Brownell's vs. Midway catalog, regardless of the format and layout.
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Yeah, It's really tough to tell them apart. Brownells' catalog says "BROWNELLS" in big letters across the front and Midway's says "MIDWAY" in big letters across the front. It's a subtle cue, but I think most people will catch on. Their lawyers must need some extra fees. Guess where those will come from.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:46:00 AM EDT
Their lawyers must need some extra fees. Guess where those will come from.
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I don't know, where?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:46:09 AM EDT
Years ago, when Microsoft first introduced the Windows operating system, Apple sued them for copying the "look and feel" of the Macintosh graphic user interface. Apple lost.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:47:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS: Great, MIDWAYUSA.COM is now on the filter restriction list at my job [whacko]. Course I can still click on the biggest piece of journalistic trash of all time WASHINGTONPOST.COM [rolleyes]
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At least you can still get to AR15.com, at least for now.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:59:05 AM EDT
Gee, Eddie, I think I said that was Brownell's claim.
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Gee, Jim, "I said" and fifty cents won't buy a cup of coffee anymore.
You've been let out. What's the problem there?
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Last ditch efforts of a person with a weak arguement. Have a nice day. Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 11:35:25 AM EDT
Last ditch efforts of a person with a weak arguement. (sic)
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Nothing weak here, Eddie. Just your spelling. Obviously Brownell's thinks they have a claim and Midway prefers to try it in the court of public opinion. Must be some basis if that's their tactic. Now you go and have YOURSELF a nice day, Eddie.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 11:42:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 11:46:49 AM EDT by LS1Eddie]
My spelling and your puncuation. All my days are nice. Eddie P.S. I think SIC is supposed to be in brackets [].
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 11:52:27 AM EDT
P.S. I think SIC is supposed to be in brackets [].
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There you go thinking.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 12:55:48 PM EDT
I am buying a new boresighter and think I will get the leupold magnetic, I priced it and below are the results. Midway and Mid South require a $40 minimum order to forego a $5 service fee. Brownells $67.90 The bad bad Midway $44.99 Mid South $42.90 The same exact product, the difference is better in my pocket than theirs. That is not competing, that is Jessie Jamesing. Dealers use your %33 1/3 discount and you go buy it from Brownells. Mid South, I would like to to place an order please. My costomer number is
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:03:04 PM EDT
am buying a new boresighter and think I will get the leupold magnetic, I priced it and below are the results. Midway and Mid South require a $40 minimum order to forego a $5 service fee. Brownells $67.90 The bad bad Midway $44.99 Mid South $42.90 The same exact product, the difference is better in my pocket than theirs. That is not competing, that is Jessie Jamesing. Dealers use your %33 1/3 discount and you go buy it from Brownells.
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Another reply almost too stupid for words. Brownell's clientele is nominally other businesses; i.e. gunsmiths, gun shops, etc. All others pay retail. Get a C&R for $30 or so and get the Brownell's discount. This is the dumbest bitch yet.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:06:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
They just don't like or want Midways competition.
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It's not the competition they mind, it's the fact that Midway is masquerading as Brownell's while trying to be a gunsmith supply house.
Brownells SUCKS big time. I tried to buy a ZM upper from them and they were total aholes about it. Whoever answers the phone(some old fart) costthem my business for eternity. No surprise they are doing the frivilous lawsuit thing. I guess they need to make money some way since any decent gun owner would not buy from them. O well, they will be out of business within a year for this lawsuit. When Brownells changes their name to attempt to stay in business we must make sure to take notice and NOT order from that company as well.
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This is just too damned stupid to offer a reasoned reply.
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To each his own. Continue to support a company that sues a fellow 2nd amendment company. That is your failing...not mine.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:12:39 PM EDT
To each his own. Continue to support a company that sues a fellow 2nd amendment company. That is your failing...not mine.
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And the moronathon continues. Have you actually SEEN the lawsuit, or are you just going by what Midway, aka the "Potterfield Empire," has spoon fed you? That's what I thought.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:32:05 PM EDT
Jim_Dandy It might be the dumbest bitch yet, but I still got the difference in my hip pocket. And I don't have to do anything but keep checking the catalogs.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:47:06 PM EDT
Did your mother have any kids that lived? For the last FUCKING time, Brownell's caters to commercial customers, you know DEALERS. Midway sells to poor saps like you. GOT IT? Brownell's just doesn't give a good God-damn if you go somewhere else unless you're a dealer. Get a C&R or an FFL and Brownell's will care about your business. JESUS H. CHRIST.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:49:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Am-O-Tramp: Jim_Dandy It might be the dumbest bitch yet, but I still got the difference in my hip pocket. And I don't have to do anything but keep checking the catalogs.
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I believe he was mostly refering to the ease with which you could also get the dealer prices at Brownell's. I've only had my C&R for a couple of months, and I've easily made up my $30 fee many times over just from the discounts places like Brownell's and Midway give to C&R holders. That being said, it does sort of sound like Jim_Dandy may work for Brownell's or something. True, we've only seen Midway's side of the story so far, but despite the format of the catalog, I don't see how any reasonable person would get the companies confused. Just an FYI on dealer prices on that boresighter as well - it is $48.70 from Brownell's and $39.99 from Midway. As you can see, the % of discount is much greater from Brownell's - nearly $20 vs. the $5 from Midway, but Midway is, of course, still cheaper. As mentioned before, Brownell's seems to cater to dealers, and so their "retail" price reflects what you would expect to pay in a brick and mortar store. Midway seems to cater to the individual consumer, and so their "retail" price reflects a, well, internet price. Rocko
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 2:02:31 PM EDT
I have used brownell's often, for parts/tools and midway occasionally, mostly for reloading. I will continue to shop both for the best prices, as well as other suppliers. Occasionally I'll even find a better price at Cabela's. Did anyone else notice that Midway put Brownell's up in pink letters with yellow borders? Subliminal?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 2:04:06 PM EDT
There you go thinking.
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Something we of the non-litigious persuasion practice. Try it. Of course, you may want to check with Brownell's, first. Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 2:45:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Brownells (sic) USED to have an 800 number.
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I've bought things from Brownell's (sic) for over twenty years and they have NEVER had an 800 number.
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Here is their website. Look around on it. Do [i]you[/i] see an apostrophe? I sure don't. http://[url]http://www.brownells.com[/url] And I don't just mean the URL, I mean anywhere in the content, for example, their "Message from the President": [url]http://www.brownells.com/AboutUs/presidentMessage.asp[/url] Maybe they just didn't tell YOU about their 800 number. [:p]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:14:23 PM EDT
Jim_Dandy This is getting to be a game of mind over matter with you, and frankly, I don't mind and YOU and Brownells don't matter. And leave my mother out of this.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:30:32 PM EDT
Their lawyers must need some extra fees. Guess where those will come from.
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Jim Dandy.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:37:51 PM EDT
can we just get alone? [BD]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:59:22 PM EDT
The first thing that came to my mind when I got the Midway gunsmithing catalog, was gee did Brownells buy out that company?
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