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Posted: 4/21/2002 6:45:19 AM EDT
There is a topic - "Congratulations Ariel Sharon, Good Job" currently on page one. There is a poster - NH2112 - under this topic. Does this board stand for advancing the hate of NH2112 ???? If not where do we stand ??
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:50:25 AM EDT
Nope. God is love. Islam is the Religion of Peace. How can [u]anything[/u] hateful come out of that? Eric The(Serious!No,IReallyMeanIt!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:50:51 AM EDT
This and any other board is made up of individuals and their opinions. It's impossible for it to stand for anything. The moderators may have opinions, and the posters may have opinions, but to think those opinions are cohesive enought to collectively "stand" for anything is unrealistic. To require those posting to agree enough and be bound together to "stand" for something goes against its nature, which is to discuss various subjects and opinions. All IMHO.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:57:58 AM EDT
I agree with ORG. Is that bad?
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:58:40 AM EDT
No one has sent me any pro-hate items... nor have I been solicited into joining any racially motivated group. It's someones opinion, if it doesn't agree with yours, discuss it with him or just move along. I don't see why this has spawned a seprate thread. It's gonna fill up with shit in no time flat...
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:01:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Nope. God is love. Islam is the Religion of Peace. How can [u]anything[/u] hateful come out of that?
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The Crusades, the 30yrs War, the witch craze, the inquisition,.....
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:16:06 AM EDT
Yeah, We get our tits in an uproar when someone restricts our 2nd Amendment Rights....but its OK to restrict each others 1st Amenment Rights.... Nothing like being selective. Bulldog OUT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:18:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By org: To require those posting to agree enough and be bound together to "stand" for something goes against its nature, which is to discuss various subjects and opinions. All IMHO.
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I do not believe I used the word "require." I did ask a question.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:32:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 7:34:34 AM EDT by DavidC]
bulldog1967 spouted: We get our tits in an uproar when someone restricts our 2nd Amendment Rights....but its OK to restrict each others 1st Amenment Rights.... Nothing like being selective.
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Actually it's comments like this that scare me the most; if you don't understand our rights, don't open your mouth and prove it. The Bill of Rights enumerates restrictions placed upon the government, not private citizens. You [b]do not[/b] have any "free speech" right here at AR15.COM or on any other private forum that restricts the owners of the forum from moderating your speech or expresion in any way (remember the scatalogical attack the site recieved?). The government can't come in and shut us down for talking about things they disagree with; that would be a 1st Ammendment violation, but the owner and his agents (the moderators) have every right to restrict the use of their property (the web site) any way they see fit. There is a significant amount of moronic drivel that emanates from some of the small minds that frequent the board, ranging from the anti-semitic ("I'm not an anti-semite, I just know that my role on the planet is to rid the earth of Jews") to the blatently stupid ("insert any discussion about actiivities that are clearly unlawful, regardless of how you feel about the law"), but none of it is "protected speech" in the context of the website. We put up with it because many of us here agree with Voltaire: "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to my death your right to say it."
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:41:08 AM EDT
I was under the impression that a board like this stood for free speech. If you are on this board you should know at least that much about it. As for other ideology you have the ability to decry that as being repugnant to you. I agree that we don't need to see posts on this board that are so inflammatory but it is important that we know that there are people who think along these lines even in the midst of our own associations. I also believe that this board was derived for the exchange of truth through the dissemination of information not readily obtained and often ignored by mainstream meida. And I hoped that this was a bonding of like minded individuals who would find comfort in the fact that there are those they could turn to for resonable discourse. And, In a time of crisis would band together and preserve what we all hope for ourselves and our posterity, the preservation of our principles, our lives, our freedom and our nation.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:32:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Nick1950: I agree that we don't need to see posts on this board that are so inflammatory but it is important that we know that there are people who think along these lines even in the midst of our own associations. I also believe that this board was derived for the exchange of truth through the dissemination of information not readily obtained and often ignored by mainstream meida.
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Agreed. Nick, one of my reasons for posting this topic and my replies under the other topic is to show 'my' disagreement with NH2112. I don't believe it is any secret that this and all other boards are visited from time to time by those who might not wish us well. "Key Word" searches are used by both private enterprise and the FBI to locate certain types of persons who use certain words and phrases. For this reason and others I could not let the posts of NH2112 go unchallenged.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:41:21 AM EDT
With freedom comes responsibility and the two are inseperatable . To quote Maha Rush " Words mean things". To say that one can spout off any ole thing and have it go unchallenge goes against everything this country was built upon . What NH2112 wrote shows a lack of forethought and more sadly ignorance . From what I've seen he is one of a VERY small minority of nonthinkers on this website and like many small things is due end up on the garbage dump history .
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:57:08 AM EDT
I don't believe it is any secret that this and all other boards are visited from time to time by those who might not wish us well. "Key Word" searches are used by both private enterprise and the FBI to locate certain types of persons who use certain words and phrases. For this reason and others I could not let the posts of NH2112 go unchallenged.
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Tin Foil Hat Time.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 9:00:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm:
I don't believe it is any secret that this and all other boards are visited from time to time by those who might not wish us well. "Key Word" searches are used by both private enterprise and the FBI to locate certain types of persons who use certain words and phrases. For this reason and others I could not let the posts of NH2112 go unchallenged.
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Tin Foil Hat Time.
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Markm, Hopefully you don't believe that the various government agencies do NOT check out gun-related forums to see what is said... Scott
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 9:09:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm:
I don't believe it is any secret that this and all other boards are visited from time to time by those who might not wish us well. "Key Word" searches are used by both private enterprise and the FBI to locate certain types of persons who use certain words and phrases. For this reason and others I could not let the posts of NH2112 go unchallenged.
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Tin Foil Hat Time.
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markm, you have absolutely no idea just how wrong you are. [peep]
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 9:17:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonR: markm, you have absolutely no idea just how wrong you are. [peep]
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Well DonR, let's give them their money's worth Anthrax President Nuclear Jihad Allah Great Satan Islam Islamic Wait! I hear the helicopters now! Look! They're here! [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img] Gotta go and do a Henry Bowman on them! [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 9:54:02 AM EDT
from another post: "The way I see it, the children in O.C. were collateral damage in a war initiated by the government." Remarks like this and NH2112's are really going to help us in our fight over the 2nd. Just reinforces the idea to Joe Public that we are all just a bunch of hateful gun wackos. I have to agree with 5subslr5 about there being a lot of hate on the forums.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 10:15:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 10:43:43 AM EDT
1. Fueled by a few individuals, hatred does regularly appear on this site. 2. The kaliban doj admitted in a L.A. Times article that they regularly monitor gun related discussion forums. AR15.com is no doubtedly one of them.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 10:46:07 AM EDT
I hate cheddar cheese. I'm sorry.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 10:51:51 AM EDT
People's opinions and beliefs are theirs and should be accepted... You don't have to agree and that's fine. As long as someone doesn't hurt another, they can believe anything they want and I could care less.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 11:22:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 11:25:40 AM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]
Originally Posted By Atencio: from another post: "The way I see it, the children in O.C. were collateral damage in a war initiated by the government." Remarks like this and NH2112's are really going to help us in our fight over the 2nd. Just reinforces the idea to Joe Public that we are all just a bunch of hateful gun wackos. I have to agree with 5subslr5 about there being a lot of hate on the forums.
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Joe Public is not reading the forums. As long as nuts are permitted to post, you'll have the opportunity to elevate them with your superior insight. Please enlighten the nuts.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 11:29:39 AM EDT
I very much dislike those who would (and do) attempt to F**k with my RKBA, but I am not so sure that I hate them. I guess there are many "levels" of hate. I hate terrorist organizations. But... I love chocolate ice cream. Tyler
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 11:35:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: I hate cheddar cheese. I'm sorry.
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Okay that is it. What could you have against a fresh creamy piece of chedder cheese??
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 11:43:24 AM EDT
Oh yes, those mean nasty christians and their evil crusades. Jihad's arnt exactly muslem love in's either.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 11:46:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 11:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 11:52:33 AM EDT by BenDover]
I am not an advocate of 'hate' speech or racial denigration. But I am an advocate of talking about the issues in a civilized manner wherever the opportunity may present itself. The root to most human conflict is a gap in communication and understanding. The key to resolving these conflicts is not to bar topics and brand them as 'taboo'; however to encourage the discussion in an effort to glean insight to the minds of the opposite side. For the most part, I believe the if we could graph the political ideologies and viewpoints of the AR15 membership base we would find most of us falling into the moderate-to-conservative range. Sure there are going to be some far wings in both direction but as a community I would put even money on the median line falling into the 'libertarian' or 'republicrat' areas. What frustrates me at times is the actions by the moderators in shutting down otherwise interesting and productive conversations simply because one or two posts emerge from the extreme sector. For one, I am not offended by a public display of ignorance with expressions of a racial nature or obscene language. Again, I fall into the libertarian band of measurement. However, I understand the mission of this site is not a catch-all source for controversial dialogue and we will never actually resolve ANY issue on this board since we tend to be preaching to the choir. I say this because our personal ideologies are mostly similar on the vast array of issues which show up here. However, I can also say that the unique folks on here have indeed presented me with an opportunity to learn and I have even changed my mind about specific issues through dialogue. Also, I do understand the nature of the board moderation beast here and would venture to guess most moderators here have a more tolerant personal view, but in the broad interest of the commercial appeal of the site must be ever watchful of what gets posted from the extremist bands of our graph. Oh yeah... and those government observers?? Even though they might be here for a different purpose, I would guess they find this site as engaging as the rest of us and have probably been surprised at the overall sheer intelligence and balanced restraint coming from the majority of the members here. They aren't reading anything here that they haven't already read or heard somewhere else and have also probably been surprised to find far less if any of what they came here looking for. My .02
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 12:15:17 PM EDT
While we're so busy hating other races, creeds, and nationalities, we all keep overlooking the folks who most deserve our hatred. We need to be concentrating our emotions and actions on the sleezy politicians who care more about filling their pockets with foreign and special interest dollars, than they do upholding our rights and freedoms. As long as blacks and whites in this country continue the way they're going, it's going to become easier for them to slowly erode our rights. As long as we're divided, it'll make it easier for foreign attacks, terrorist, or otherwise. I'm too damned busy hating what the politicians are doing to my country to be hating much of anybody else. (OK, except Osama and his boys)
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 12:17:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 12:30:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 12:31:03 PM EDT by BenDover]
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: NOONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!
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Ever consider what would happen if the next generation of Latino Americans converted to Islam en masse? It's a Marxist dream come true. History happens.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 2:07:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 2:12:29 PM EDT by markm]
Originally Posted By platform389:
Originally Posted By DonR: markm, you have absolutely no idea just how wrong you are. [peep]
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Well DonR, let's give them their money's worth Anthrax President Nuclear Jihad Allah Great Satan Islam Islamic Wait! I hear the helicopters now! Look! They're here! [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/pavehawka.gif[/img] Gotta go and do a Henry Bowman on them! [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
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you forgot, Uranium, Warhead, and White House. Right On, Platform. I don't care who reads this crap, I will not change my posts because of some "pets on parade" paranoia. If there are actually idiots in the government who would monitor our stupid ramblings, then that would explain why we have rag heads crashing planes into buildings.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 2:41:01 PM EDT
Every fight will bring out fanatics on both sides. I believe it important to know about them, and their views. It's good practice determining what is "acceptable social behavior". Eradication of a people, I would gather, is not socially acceptable behavior [:D]. (<---See the smiley?, good) The problem with fanatics is that they tend to become their enemy. Example - "We should destroy all of them" why? "Because they're full of hate and want to destroy us". It's a case of where someone takes on the properties (real or imagined) of those that he despises.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 3:28:06 PM EDT
I do not remember reading the comments that brought about this thread. I am too weak to "love my enemies", at least the 9/11 variety. I certainly hate what they did and what our government does to us at times. I do not hate any RACE. I DO consider a certain religion to be America's enemy and believe certain members of it should be terminated with extreme prejudice. Anti semitism may qualify as hate, I'm not sure I even agree with that idea. What Bin Leaden preaches appears to be hate, so do we say anyone who fails to abhore those actions are guilty of "hate"? Point is that "hate" is often a word used by those who oppose an opinion different from their own. The purpose of the 1st amendment is to protect us from government control and in particular UNPOPULAR speach. Short of a few trolls who's purpose is disruption such as yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded place I support everyone getting to say their piece. Even those with whom I strongly disagree. Only through thought and discussion can we form rational opinions. We are a rather intense bunch with strongly held opinions. Those opinions cover a wide range, as they should. I have never knowingly suggested anyone violate the law, even when that law is wrong in my eyes. I agree the government snoops on ALL gun owners and people who do not meakly agree with EVERYTHING the government does. However, I refuse to believe we should be so scared and spineless as to hold our tongues! To remain silent is to agree with those who would enslave us. As for the antis who snoop here, it doesn't matter what we say. If they wish to make something of it, they have proven themselves quite willing to lie. They will just make it up. Period.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:06:02 PM EDT
There is a poster - NH2112 - under this topic. Does this board stand for advancing the hate of NH2112 ????
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I don't support his statements, but I understand them. I am pretty fed up with the passive aggressive terrorist sympathizers in the United States. ------------------------------- Sometimes the only way to change someone's mind is to put a bullet in it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:39:53 PM EDT
Well, at least we're talking about the topic and that's plenty good enough for me. If everyone agreed with my position I would immediately request a recount !
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:45:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: ....... to be America's enemy and believe certain members of it should be terminated with extreme prejudice.
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I'll go one step further and have so posted before, I would cheerfully 'do' both Arafat and Sharon in one afternoon and have a nice 'pork' roast for dinner.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:47:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 4:49:05 PM EDT by TopCrest]
There is a topic - "Congratulations Ariel Sharon, Good Job" currently on page one. There is a poster - NH2112 - under this topic. Does this board stand for advancing the hate of NH2112 ???? If not where do we stand ??
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Dude, shut up.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:54:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:54:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 4:57:56 PM EDT by stcyr]
5subslr5, Your response the the NH2112 post (wherein he advocates killing every Palestinian man, woman, child and infant), was probably the same as mine: These are the words of one who appears to be equally fanatical and perhaps even more full of irrational hate than the very people he suggests that the Israelis murder. His following post, where he attempts to distance himself from Hitler (because he only wants to wipe out a certain section of the the Arab race – not all, just 2 million or so), is not only pathetic but, merely serves to underscore the type of personality that seeks to justify mass murder (of even infants) by making a distinction between the murder of 2 million (that's okay) and Hitler's 6 million victims (that's not okay – waaay too many?). I think NH2112 did a fine job of clearly showing us the extreme nature of his twisted thoughts and solutions – all on his own!
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 5:21:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: If there are actually idiots in the government who would monitor our stupid ramblings, then that would explain why we have rag heads crashing planes into buildings.
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More than the government, it is someone like Morris Dees at the Southern Poverty something-or-other that concerns me. Mr. Morris is some what left of the ACLU and has been specializing in what he terms "hate groups" and "hate crimes" for the last few years. Mr. Morris tends to specialize on the area currently in vogue meaning those areas where he can raise money.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 5:31:17 PM EDT
HATE is not what I stand for. Like someone else said on this thread, I get upset when I see my RKBA trampled, but I cannot say that I HATE those who are doing the trampling. Some of the people who post here seem to be anti-government at times. I am probably about the most pro-America, pro-Bush, guy you'll find around here. I even put my money where my mouth is and enlisted after 9/11. I am also naive enough to believe that the peaceful petitioning of the government for a redress of grievances is so crazy that it just might work! I just wanted to pipe up for the normal, law abiding guy that also happens to like the AR-15 and coming to this site. We aren't all extremists, racists, or nuts. We all have opinions and are entitled to air them no matter how stupid they are. On the subject at hand, I thought the picture of the Palestinian guy holding his dead daughter was sad. I think that whenever innocents are killed its a tragedy and it makes me angry. That said, Arafat and his ilk created the situation that lead to that baby's death. I have also seen photos of dead jewish babies that were ripped apart as the result of a palestinian homicide bomber, it is no less unsettling. What really gets me going thoughis how these posts on Israel generate such a visceral response from board members, but posts about the latest campaign to kill your Constitutional rights don't. Lets all take a moment tonight to email our representatives about issues like the UN court, the proposed ban on mail order ammo sales, etc... Anyone have any experience with Fulton Armory ARs?
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 5:32:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: Oh yeah... and those government observers?? Even though they might be here for a different purpose, I would guess they find this site as engaging as the rest of us and have probably been surprised at the overall sheer intelligence and balanced restraint coming from the majority of the members here. They aren't reading anything here that they haven't already read or heard somewhere else and have also probably been surprised to find far less if any of what they came here looking for. My .02
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Your comment "....probably been surprised to find far less..........." You're more right than you probably believe ! We've been hit at least three times in the last couple of months and the take was token at best. I know DonR has taken some heat for locking some few posts but I can assure you that each of the three times we were invaded DonR was right there shutting down the threads without regard to the heat. These little incursions did not occur on the General Discussion Forum but the members where the incursions did occur virtually shut down the 'Troll' topics before DonR arrived and administered last rites.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:28:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: ... that would explain why we have rag heads crashing planes into buildings.
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I thought we had that because rag-heads don't like American soldiers on their land any more than Americans want rag-head soldiers on our land.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:31:31 PM EDT
[:k]
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:43:17 PM EDT
What does "troll" mean anyway? I'm new here.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 9:37:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By markm: If there are actually idiots in the government who would monitor our stupid ramblings, then that would explain why we have rag heads crashing planes into buildings.
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More than the government, it is someone like Morris Dees at the Southern Poverty something-or-other that concerns me. Mr. Morris is some what left of the ACLU and has been specializing in what he terms "hate groups" and "hate crimes" for the last few years. Mr. Morris tends to specialize on the area currently in vogue meaning those areas where he can raise money.
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Oh ya don't forget the Anti-Defimation League (THEY ARE RABIDLY ANTI-GUN) especially Mark Pitcavage. Hi Mark!
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:08:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stcyr I think NH2112 did a fine job of clearly showing us the extreme nature of his twisted thoughts and solutions – all on his own!
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