Pilot refuses to consent to TSA strip search by refusing to enter Full Body Scanner - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pilot refuses to consent to TSA strip search by refusing to enter Full Body Scanner (Page 3 of 9)

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:38:44 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:38:48 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
SEPTEMBER 14––The airport screener arrested for assaulting a coworker who taunted him about the size of his penis after his genitalia was exposed by a full-body scanner told police that he snapped after being subjected to “psychological torture” by fellow Transportation Security Administration employees who repeatedly asked him, “What size are you?”

In a handwritten statement given to cops following his May arrest, Rolando Negrin, 45, described the fallout after he walked through a high-tech "whole body image" scanner during a training session for TSA workers at Miami International Airport. Negrin’s statement to Miami-Dade Police Department officers, excerpted here, was obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request. The original police report detailing the incident can be found here.

Negrin wrote that, despite his pleas, coworkers would not cease mocking him after the scanner gave them a revealing look at his genitalia. He recalled that he was mockingly asked, “Roly, what size are you?” Coworkers, he added, called him “little angry man,” laughed off his pleas for compassion, and abused him in front of passengers.

The merciless teasing and “psychological torture,” Negrin stated, left him stressed out and with elevated blood pressure. When he confronted his chief tormentor, Negrin said the man laughed at him. Negrin, pictured in the above mug shot, later allegedly attacked fellow TSA screener Hugo Osorno in an airport parking lot, striking him with a police baton while demanding an apology.

According to court records, Negrin is scheduled for an October 25 trial hearing in Miami-Dade Circuit Court. Reached by phone this afternoon at his Hialeah Gardens home, Negrin declined to answer questions about the case. “I do not wish to talk to anyone about my issues,” he said.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/tsa-screener-cited-torture-scanner-case

All he has to do is say he was bullied and his coworkers are instantly responsible for HIS actions.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:39:07 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Didn't John Ross have a prescription for this?

TXL

Henry Bowman was a pilot.

Is it time to feed the hogs?

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:39:11 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

So what if he didn't want to be patted down. HE'S A PILOT!

Once in the air, he could fly it to anywhere he wanted, or crash it into a building.

The TSA are idiots.

Yeah! Pilots are certainly beyond reproach and should be allowed free access to their aircraft with no screening at all. I mean after all none of them has ever caused any bad things to happen to their trusting passengers in the back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:43:20 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

Imagine if every pilot did that? A return to sanity, common sense and respect for personal rights would be too much to ask for though

Every pilot doesn't have to do that,

That pilot is an idiot. there are special rules for pilots and what he described is not them. All he had to do was politely ask to speak with the shift supervisor and the supervisor would have corrected the idiot TSA person for not knowing the procedures.

But instead he has to be an ass. And his wording about how he hasn't blown up an airplane to the TSA people should get him fired on the spot.

Do you work for TSA by any chance?

I am not defending the TSA. The TSA person was not following procedures and a quck chat by the pilot with the supervisor would have solved the problem.

I also do not like the xray scatter machines. i think they infringe on privacy. i would much rather have the TSA profile the threat, but they aren't going to do that.

No. But I am familiar.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:45:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ask yourself this... would you let your wife go through that machine? Knowing that dudes would be looking at her butt naked?

OMG, that's like totally porno!

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLO-TC_NKfIwmCwTp_2u3kqzs8MQmReQFuPUGtwTtb2aAzttk&t=1&usg=___0ebrDm68FIK4tTb5GU8x4e6Amw=

http://lastpostofsanity.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/airport_xray_scanner.jpg

Might even be able to see if she's wearing a thong or granny panties.

Yeah, I actually would not want my wife going through that.

Or my daughter.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:46:00 AM EDT

[#7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7AWw7t5zj0

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:46:19 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Stuff like that is why I've decided I won't fly anymore, unless it's a life or death thing. If I can't drive there, I don't need to go that badly.

I'm sure some of you think that's stupid, but you and I know, the crap they pull is doing nothing for security. Anyone could still get anything on the plane. We have to get it right 100% of the time, they only have to get it right once.

That's me exactly, I haven't flown since 2002, and I don't care to.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:47:18 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I actually read the whole thing. That guy is a loon and I'm glad he will no longer be flying aircraft that I may be traveling on. He must have one teeny tiny pecker to be such a douche about refusing not only the scanner but the pat down as well.

Oh my, I cannot believe you just rolled over and let the government stick it in you that easily .
So where does it go to far with you? I guess you would gladly submit to a anal exam in the name of "safety"
Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security!

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:47:31 AM EDT

[#10]

ETA: I removed my previous comment. I see the serf have arrived and begun the whole bow down/nothing to see thing.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:52:30 AM EDT

[#11]

So ATI is now mandatory or a pat down?

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:53:35 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

That would be preferable. If they profiled instead of running a lame backscatter machine that doesn't stop shit, they'd actually make things safer. If you think the backscatter is going to stop a terrorist from hijacking or blowing up an airliner, you're delusional.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:53:46 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If I am getting a pat down, it means I am in handcuffs and about to go for a ride in some form of law enforcement vehicle, having been accused of a crime or am being detained by a certified LEO with those powers. That is the only time that treatment is legal.

I have a pacemaker, I get patted down every time I fly.
It is no big deal and the procedure is really non invasive to a normal person.

My issue with this procedure doesn't even get that far... it's the principle to me. Being a law-abiding citizen and having committed no crime...

What is the difference between the physical treatment a drug-dealer that just got busted received... and of you, on your way to Pebble Beach to play golf? I don't see any... hands on your body, looking for tools of criminal behavior and bad intentions.

Because you have no 'right' to travel by private air craft. You either abide by the requirements to board private property or you don't go and are free to leave.

It isn't a freedom thing. Nobody is demanding a strip search as you walk down a public way. You have a right to travel freely, just not on a private company's air plane. It isn't even public transportation where you still have to where shoes and a shirt.

Your arguement would be more apt if the TSA was run or required by the airlines.

The pre-cursor to the TSA was run and hired by the airlines. Most of them were foreign nationals and most could not speak english, never mind do a background check on them.

Even the the feds make and enforce the rules, it is still a private property and private for hire transportation. I don't like it any more than anybody else. I especially don't like the x-ray dose those things give. I think it is an infringement on my privacy, and so is NOT PROFILING the THREAT.

The fact that it was in the past run by the airlines themselves does not make the constitutional issues once the government takes it over any less valid.

Would the searches withstand constituional muster if the local PD started Terry searching every person before boarding and running them for warrants?

Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Dave_A, is that you?

TXL

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:54:52 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

That would be preferable. If they profiled instead of running a lame backscatter machine that doesn't stop shit, they'd actually make things safer. If you think the backscatter is going to stop a terrorist from hijacking or blowing up an airliner, you're delusional.

If those "you"'s are referencing me. Nope. I think it's mostly eyewash.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:55:12 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Ah, no. They didn't. The FAA and .gov at large, fucked it up. The Airlines were just the ones holding the bag.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:55:16 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I actually read the whole thing. That guy is a loon and I'm glad he will no longer be flying aircraft that I may be traveling on. He must have one teeny tiny pecker to be such a douche about refusing not only the scanner but the pat down as well.

Oh my, I cannot believe you just rolled over and let the government stick it in you that easily .

So where does it go to far with you? I guess you would gladly submit to a anal exam in the name of "safety"

Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security!

Oh no!!! Ten seconds with a wand, and ten more for a half-assed pat down. My civil liberties...they done been stolz!!!!!

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:56:15 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So what if he didn't want to be patted down. HE'S A PILOT!

Once in the air, he could fly it to anywhere he wanted, or crash it into a building.

The TSA are idiots.

Yeah! Pilots are certainly beyond reproach and should be allowed free access to their aircraft with no screening at all. I mean after all none of them has ever caused any bad things to happen to their trusting passengers in the back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

How would weapons screening solved that problem? Oh, wait, it DIDN'T. That pilot WAS screened.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:56:37 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Ah, no. They didn't. The FAA and .gov at large, fucked it up. The Airlines were just the ones holding the bag.

So you are telling me that the foreign nationals that didn't speak english did a god job at security?

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:56:37 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

That would be preferable. If they profiled instead of running a lame backscatter machine that doesn't stop shit, they'd actually make things safer. If you think the backscatter is going to stop a terrorist from hijacking or blowing up an airliner, you're delusional.

If those "you"'s are referencing me. Nope. I think it's mostly eyewash.

I was referring "you" in the general sense. Not intended as a slight on you.

Posted: 10/19/2010 8:58:33 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

So you are telling me that the foreign nationals that didn't speak english did a god job at security?

Did they do a worse job than the converted Mcdonald's workers the TSA hires do? Seen the results of checkpoint tests lately?

Also, most TSA agents I've run into don't speak what I consider english.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:02:06 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So what if he didn't want to be patted down. HE'S A PILOT!

Once in the air, he could fly it to anywhere he wanted, or crash it into a building.

The TSA are idiots.

Yeah! Pilots are certainly beyond reproach and should be allowed free access to their aircraft with no screening at all. I mean after all none of them has ever caused any bad things to happen to their trusting passengers in the back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

How would weapons screening solved that problem? Oh, wait, it DIDN'T. That pilot WAS screened.

My point was every pilot cannot be assumed to be "safe" simply because they are a pilot. I don't have a problem with reduced/expedited screening for crewmembers but there has to be something. Maybe a breathalyzer at the gate is a better precaution than a metal detector.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:03:24 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If I am getting a pat down, it means I am in handcuffs and about to go for a ride in some form of law enforcement vehicle, having been accused of a crime or am being detained by a certified LEO with those powers. That is the only time that treatment is legal.

I have a pacemaker, I get patted down every time I fly.
It is no big deal and the procedure is really non invasive to a normal person.

My issue with this procedure doesn't even get that far... it's the principle to me. Being a law-abiding citizen and having committed no crime...

What is the difference between the physical treatment a drug-dealer that just got busted received... and of you, on your way to Pebble Beach to play golf? I don't see any... hands on your body, looking for tools of criminal behavior and bad intentions.

Because you have no 'right' to travel by private air craft. You either abide by the requirements to board private property or you don't go and are free to leave.

It isn't a freedom thing. Nobody is demanding a strip search as you walk down a public way. You have a right to travel freely, just not on a private company's air plane. It isn't even public transportation where you still have to where shoes and a shirt.

PATCO (philly mass transit) is on record saying that they can put these machines up for public transportation if they wanted to.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:04:52 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

I cannot believe that there is a human alive who is also allowed to vote that is dumb enough to believe that the TSA is keeping us safe. Their methods are aimed at protecting us from the last attack.

The TSA is NOT protecting us from the next attack.

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.” William Pitt, 1783

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:07:13 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I actually read the whole thing. That guy is a loon and I'm glad he will no longer be flying aircraft that I may be traveling on. He must have one teeny tiny pecker to be such a douche about refusing not only the scanner but the pat down as well.

I'm not really sure how you would draw that conclusion...

Those scans are a rights violation. If the public uproar gets louder, the TSAs ability to explain things away gets muffled.

I have to commend him for his decision... you may be OK, with having your rights trampled and privacy invaded - I'm not.

If you read the whole thing and can't find the logical inconsistencies then I can't help. He refuses the scanner (so what, I don't care). Then he refuses a pat down (why?). Later on he claims that TSA just wouldn't be happy until they saw him naked. Is he such a moron that he doesn't understand that a pat down is not a strip search?

I get patted down going into nightclubs in most cities, it's not a big deal. I'm not embarrassed about my body, so I don't have one iota of problem standing in the scanner, as I've done many times.

Your willingness to submit to such intrusions is not grounds to force others to do the same.

I "submit to such intrusions" because it is required of my service to the US military. Likewise this douche has to comply with the standards as a condition of his employment. Like I said, good riddance to bad rubbish. There are plenty of pilots waiting on the furlough list to take his job. He knew he'd be subject to security screenings daily when he took the job.

Well, at least we know you didn't fight for liberty.

TXL

Nor were we required to perform services to the military.

Most of us serve IN the military FOR the American people...

What a wackey sense of priorities.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:07:14 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

PATCO (philly mass transit) is on record saying that they can put these machines up for public transportation if they wanted to.

You have every right to secure your own transportation outside of their system. Or is somebody forcing you at gunpoint to ride their busses/trains?

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:07:40 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I actually read the whole thing. That guy is a loon and I'm glad he will no longer be flying aircraft that I may be traveling on. He must have one teeny tiny pecker to be such a douche about refusing not only the scanner but the pat down as well.

NO, HE IS NORMAL, YOU ARE THE ASS

Your avatar indicates military, God I hope not

pussy, you should be defending freedom, not cheering its death

Note, not a personal attack, just an observation

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:09:05 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Nor were we required to perform services to the military.

Most of us serve IN the military FOR the American people...

What a wackey sense of priorities.

What are you yammering about? When I am fucking required to deploy, I do it willingly. I also do it by commercial air. Since I live on an island, and a long way away from where I need to deploy to, I go through whatever screenings are required to get there. Is that so hard to understand?

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:09:11 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Ah, no. They didn't. The FAA and .gov at large, fucked it up. The Airlines were just the ones holding the bag.

So you are telling me that the foreign nationals that didn't speak english did a god job at security?

Sounds like F terminal security at PHL, now.

If its going to be Kabuki Theater, it should be cheap.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:11:32 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So what if he didn't want to be patted down. HE'S A PILOT!

Once in the air, he could fly it to anywhere he wanted, or crash it into a building.

The TSA are idiots.

Yeah! Pilots are certainly beyond reproach and should be allowed free access to their aircraft with no screening at all. I mean after all none of them has ever caused any bad things to happen to their trusting passengers in the back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

How would weapons screening solved that problem? Oh, wait, it DIDN'T. That pilot WAS screened.

My point was every pilot cannot be assumed to be "safe" simply because they are a pilot. I don't have a problem with reduced/expedited screening for crewmembers but there has to be something. Maybe a breathalyzer at the gate is a better precaution than a metal detector.

Perhaps, if we had a "pilots crashing airplanes while drunk" problem. Obviously, the pilot community isn't going to 100% safe, 100% of the time, but if his name is on the release, he's in uniform, and still has his ID, its starting to be a little late for proactive measures.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:13:32 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

I cannot believe that there is a human alive who is also allowed to vote that is dumb enough to believe that the TSA is keeping us safe. Their methods are aimed at protecting us from the last attack.

The TSA is NOT protecting us from the next attack.

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.” William Pitt, 1783

Let me put it this way. Nobody can protect us from the next attack unless we profile and deny boarding with no reason given, like the Israelis do. It's mostly eyewash.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:15:02 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Ah, no. They didn't. The FAA and .gov at large, fucked it up. The Airlines were just the ones holding the bag.

So you are telling me that the foreign nationals that didn't speak english did a god job at security?

Sounds like F terminal security at PHL, now.

If its going to be Kabuki Theater, it should be cheap.

well at least it's cheap

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:17:15 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nor were we required to perform services to the military.

Most of us serve IN the military FOR the American people...

What a wackey sense of priorities.

What are you yammering about? When I am fucking required to deploy, I do it willingly. I also do it by commercial air. Since I live on an island, and a long way away from where I need to deploy to, I go through whatever screenings are required to get there. Is that so hard to understand?

My statement is clear, so is the quote.

I could give a crap about your "travels..."

...as though none of us have done it long before you ever got involved.

Do you know anything about military service?.... yet you claim to be in the middle of it.

You travel "willingly" when you deploy?

Yea, first you know nothing of the nature of your service, now you claim you travel willingly when you deploy.

I guess when you get tired, you just willingly quit and walk away to...

Lord help us.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:17:49 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Ah, no. They didn't. The FAA and .gov at large, fucked it up. The Airlines were just the ones holding the bag.

So you are telling me that the foreign nationals that didn't speak english did a god job at security?

Sounds like F terminal security at PHL, now.

If its going to be Kabuki Theater, it should be cheap.

well at least it's cheap

WAS cheap. The TSA is a typical CF .gov bureaucracy. At the end of the day, 180 men couldn't hold the Alamo, and 10 cops and some screeners aren't going to hold an airport. Its way too big, and the insider threat problem is mind-blowing. So, continue with screening to catch the low-hanging fruit, and build concentric rings around the target to harden it, and do other things.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:18:27 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Should I have to make that decision, I will opt out of the scanner and let someone fondle my junk, just on principle.

CJ

Better yet, pinch off a loaf while they're fondling. Don't leave the TSA monkeys empty-handed.

It's why I always eat plenty of beans before heading to the airport... Unfortunately it becomes a double edged sword the second you set foot on a plane...

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:19:07 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If I am getting a pat down, it means I am in handcuffs and about to go for a ride in some form of law enforcement vehicle, having been accused of a crime or am being detained by a certified LEO with those powers. That is the only time that treatment is legal.

I have a pacemaker, I get patted down every time I fly.

It is no big deal and the procedure is really non invasive to a normal person.

My issue with this procedure doesn't even get that far... it's the principle to me. Being a law-abiding citizen and having committed no crime...

What is the difference between the physical treatment a drug-dealer that just got busted received... and of you, on your way to Pebble Beach to play golf? I don't see any... hands on your body, looking for tools of criminal behavior and bad intentions.

Because you have no 'right' to travel by private air craft. You either abide by the requirements to board private property or you don't go and are free to leave.

It isn't a freedom thing. Nobody is demanding a strip search as you walk down a public way. You have a right to travel freely, just not on a private company's air plane. It isn't even public transportation where you still have to where shoes and a shirt.

Your arguement would be more apt if the TSA was run or required by the airlines.

The pre-cursor to the TSA was run and hired by the airlines. Most of them were foreign nationals and most could not speak english, never mind do a background check on them.

Even the the feds make and enforce the rules, it is still a private property and private for hire transportation. I don't like it any more than anybody else. I especially don't like the x-ray dose those things give. I think it is an infringement on my privacy, and so is NOT PROFILING the THREAT.

The fact that it was in the past run by the airlines themselves does not make the constitutional issues once the government takes it over any less valid.

Would the searches withstand constituional muster if the local PD started Terry searching every person before boarding and running them for warrants?

Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Dave_A, is that you?

TXL

Somebody please check the IP.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:21:48 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Did it occur to them that the pilot doesn't need to bring a weapon.....he fucking is at the controls of a more powerful weapon than he could possibly smuggle.

DUMBASSES.....that is a term that doesn't adequately describe just how dumb those guys was.

ding ding we have a winner

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:22:39 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Should I have to make that decision, I will opt out of the scanner and let someone fondle my junk, just on principle.

CJ

Sound pretty win/win IMO.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:25:14 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nor were we required to perform services to the military.

Most of us serve IN the military FOR the American people...

What a wackey sense of priorities.

What are you yammering about? When I am fucking required to deploy, I do it willingly. I also do it by commercial air. Since I live on an island, and a long way away from where I need to deploy to, I go through whatever screenings are required to get there. Is that so hard to understand?

My statement is clear, so is the quote.

I could give a crap about your "travels..."

...as though none of us have done it long before you ever got involved.

Do you know anything about military service?.... yet you claim to be in the middle of it.

You travel "willingly" when you deploy?

Yea, first you know nothing of the nature of your service, now you claim you travel willingly when you deploy.

I guess when you get tired, you just willingly quit and walk away to...

Lord help us.

So what's your perfect world solution, old ass retired guy? When US military members deploy or travel we should refuse all screenings because we are in the business of "defending liberty"? I've deployed every year but one since 1994, I'll be happy to post bona fides vs your cold war non-war anytime.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:26:01 AM EDT

[#39]

Private businesses get to make their own rules.

Last I heard, the TSA is a government agency, fully limited by the Constitution in its authority.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:26:42 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

If you're so offended by the invasions of your privacy, charter a private jet, drive, or stay home. Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Yes they are.

The GOVERNMENT is.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:27:51 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nobody is "running you for warrants". Should you wish to enter a private nightclub in most major cities you will either go through a metal detector, be wanded, or be patted down, or a combination of those. Should it be illegal for private establishments to make their own rules for entry to their premises?

Should the government make it a requirement for, providing the personnel and equipment, nightclubs to search customers then it would have the same constitutional concerns. The fact that it is a federal requirement for part 121 carriers to use the government screening does not make it a private affair.

If you're so offended by the invasions of your privacy, charter a private jet, drive, or stay home. Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Yes they are.

The GOVERNMENT is.

The government forced you to fly via commercial carrier? As a civilian?

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:27:57 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
And his wording about how he hasn't blown up an airplane to the TSA people should get him fired on the spot.

So i guess stating the truth is now a firing offense, eh?

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:30:05 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Next thing they'll have are machines that can read our thoughts

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:31:20 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
It used to be private companies doing the screening and the airlines paying for it and guess what, they fucked it up.

Yeah, and the shoe bomber and the fruit-o'-kaboom bomber got caught by the EEEEEE-lite TSA at the gate.

Oh, wait....

Now it's the govt and you pay a 40% fed tax to pay for the screening, it is better. at least they all speak english and are US citizens.

Obviously you don't fly the same routes I do. Shanekwa can barely read the ticket or handle her blue flashlight with her 6" nails. Then, she can't answer questions in anything but gutter ebonics.

maybe we should abolish all screening and just let the muslim radicals crash all the airplanes into govt buildings. Well....you know what i mean.

Or maybe we should just profile for Muslim radicals and let the law abiding enjoy their trip?

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:32:47 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

The government forced you to fly via commercial carrier? As a civilian?

No.

It forced me to go through a sham of a "security procedure" as a prerequisite of my engaging in free commerce with another private entity.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:36:16 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Nor were we required to perform services to the military.

Most of us serve IN the military FOR the American people...

What a wackey sense of priorities.

What are you yammering about? When I am fucking required to deploy, I do it willingly. I also do it by commercial air. Since I live on an island, and a long way away from where I need to deploy to, I go through whatever screenings are required to get there. Is that so hard to understand?

My statement is clear, so is the quote.

I could give a crap about your "travels..."

...as though none of us have done it long before you ever got involved.

Do you know anything about military service?.... yet you claim to be in the middle of it.

You travel "willingly" when you deploy?

Yea, first you know nothing of the nature of your service, now you claim you travel willingly when you deploy.

I guess when you get tired, you just willingly quit and walk away to...

Lord help us.

So what's your perfect world solution, old ass retired guy? When US military members deploy or travel we should refuse all screenings because we are in the business of "defending liberty"? I've deployed every year but one since 1994, I'll be happy to post bona fides vs your cold war non-war anytime.

Last time I read, Vietnam was a war, so was GW1. Of course, the various Central American conflicts were more police actions.

Certainly any of the action I saw in Vietnam, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama and GW1 was nothing compared to the "new" war you youngin's participate in.

Those were pathetic cakewalks.

I'm assured that your personal insult will endear you to the bulk of ARFCOM.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:36:33 AM EDT

[#47]

It's been proven that they DO save and store the scanner images.... But what are we afraid of? The government said their safe so their safe.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:39:59 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If I am getting a pat down, it means I am in handcuffs and about to go for a ride in some form of law enforcement vehicle, having been accused of a crime or am being detained by a certified LEO with those powers. That is the only time that treatment is legal.

For now you can. Let the bad guys continue to drive our social policies a little longer and we`ll see,,,we`ll see

I have a pacemaker, I get patted down every time I fly.
It is no big deal and the procedure is really non invasive to a normal person.

My issue with this procedure doesn't even get that far... it's the principle to me. Being a law-abiding citizen and having committed no crime...

What is the difference between the physical treatment a drug-dealer that just got busted received... and of you, on your way to Pebble Beach to play golf? I don't see any... hands on your body, looking for tools of criminal behavior and bad intentions.

You can drive....that's the bottom line.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:41:30 AM EDT

[#49]

How much radiation does this thing put out? I don't want to get zapped with an x-ray's worth of radiation every time I fly.

Posted: 10/19/2010 9:42:09 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
So what if he didn't want to be patted down. HE'S A PILOT!

Once in the air, he could fly it to anywhere he wanted, or crash it into a building.

The TSA are idiots.

+1

He's the pilot. Maybe TSA doesn't understand that he's flying the plane.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pilot refuses to consent to TSA strip search by refusing to enter Full Body Scanner (Page 3 of 9)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us