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Posted: 4/19/2002 3:39:59 PM EDT
I do not want to belabor what was obviously a tragic accident; but, due my ignorance of modern weaponry etc., I have a few questions: I think it unlikely that the Canadian troops were engaged in some kiind of anti-aircraft excercise, since the Taliban have no planes. Consequently, they would be equally unlikely to have weapons with the range, velocity and power to endanger an F-16. If that is the case... 1. What basis did the pilot have for believing he was in a life-threatening situation and had no option but to exercise his right to fire in self-defense? 2. If the Canadians were engaged in any type of anti-aircraft exercise and armed with weapons likely to endanger an F-16, why was this area not designated a no-fly zone for all allied aircraft? 3. If the F-16 pilot thought he was being fired at when he first flew over the location, why did he choose to knowingly put himself in danger by returning to the location a second time, when he had already been ordered not to return fire?
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 4:27:55 PM EDT
Good questions but I don't think anyone on AR15.com has the answers. Hopefully the answers will come out in the investigation. One report I heard earlier today suggested that the Canadians may not have let the proper authorities know they were doing a live fire exercise. It really doesn't matter in the long run. The tragedy took the life of good men. The pilot's career is ruined even if he is exonerated. Plus he has to live with himself. Like the man said "friendly fire ain't friendly"
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 4:48:42 PM EDT
Hate to say it, but it does sound like one of our zoomies got a little pickle-happy. Some better IFF procedures or deconfliction or something is definately in order.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 4:53:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 5:03:14 PM EDT by stcyr]
Yeah, I know we don't have the answers. And, when all is said and done, this was an accident that killed four – but leaves many more lives in ruin. It's happened before and it will again. But, when a man/woman stands up and defends us, our hopes and ideals and dies by our own hand, we should demand, not just hope for, the answers to how and why! The answer to #3 has me especially concerned.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 5:03:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 6:11:15 PM EDT
While tragic, I don't think there has been a war fought yet (since the invention of gunpowder) without some type of friendly fire casualties. War is a dangerous business...
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:30:11 PM EDT
Muzlblast, Before gunpowder, in the midst of battle, there were soldiers killed by their own side since at least 1,000 A.D. Armoured and helmeted men were unable to recognize each other in the midst of battle – their colors being long torn away. That is were the salute comes from – an armoured soldier would raise his visor to identify himself. It's ALWAYS been the same problem – identification! But why did this particular pilot, from what I can gather, go looking for trouble a second time? And how does one F-16 have all these problems, whilst the accompanying F-16 alongside him, apparently, remains silent and experiences no such life-threatening difficulties whatsoever. Something really sucks about all this!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:50:58 PM EDT
If that is the case... 1. self-defense is a funny thing in combat. especially if you have to fly several miles down range and execute two turns to turn around and come back and reacquire. But then how much danger can ground troops pose to a plane traveling at 600 mph? 2. as the rulers of the skies we have the right to fly wherever and whenever we please. our job is also to squash any resistance. 3. he was a cowboy. be glad he did not have something nasty to drop like heat or a cluster bomb. they would be burying many more troops and we would be paying Canada even more money than we will.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:55:20 PM EDT
I heard on Fox News today that the Canadans did not advise the "proper" personnel (whoever that is) about their live fire training exercise. They also said that the F-16 pilot asked for permission to fire, but was denied. He was granted permission to MARK the target, however. He sure marked it alright...
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:31:12 PM EDT
When all is said and done, no matter the outcome, the important thing to remember is those men did not die in vain. They died with honor.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:46:43 PM EDT
Yes, Mattja, no one would disagree with you. And, IMO, it doesn't matter whose fault it was. But the fact is that these men were needlessly killed and injured by us. We know why the enemy might do this, but when it's by our own hand....we have the right to know exactly what happened.
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 7:55:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2002 7:56:32 PM EDT by SNorman]
We blow up friendlies frequently it seems like. Good thing it wasn't a friendly ship, we would be 100% evil in that case. [;)]
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