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Posted: 4/18/2002 3:38:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 10:07:20 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Many have heard of Ramo Defense out of Nashville TN. They took a $30,000 deposit for merchandise they did not have and might never have ordered.After 2 months i demanded my money back.They refused and claimed that the items were still coming.I said i no longer was willing to wait and they said they would not give me back my money. I sent a complaint to the BBB and the states attorney general. They still refused to return the $30,000. Thank God the deposit was placed on a credit card.After 2 months i just got my money back from the bank.Ramo refused to respond to them also. I personally spoke to Bob Brown president of the company and Glen Brown the vice president.They will take your money and not give it back. If you must do business with them, put any payment on a credit card. It is the only chance you will have for recourse. Never been through this in my life. We are a reputable internet dealer and give money back for any reason, at any time. Here is the link to beware of:...........[url]http://www.ramo.com[/url] Feel free to call me at (856) 778-7702 or (856) 753-2500 for more details and warn your friends. [url]http://www.ammoman.com[/url] Eric the ammoman (edited because i can't spell) edited to activate URL's
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 3:43:14 PM EDT
WOW!!!! You are able to put $30,000 on a creidt card?? I am impressed! Sgtar15
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 3:44:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the head's up Eric. Let's keep this on top for a while.
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 3:50:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: You are able to put $30,000 on a creidt card?? I am impressed!
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That's not a platinum card that's the new blood card!!! If you don't pay it they hunt you down, beat you daily and keep you alive to sell your blood and any spare organs (or until they decide to harvest them all). [:D][:D]
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 3:53:55 PM EDT
C'mon guys, i'm an old man for christ sake. I started with a $100 limit and worked my way up.Tells you how old i am. They also used to call me ammoboy.com when i started.[:)] Eric the ammoboy
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 4:00:21 PM EDT
You are able to put $30,000 on a creidt card??
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How do you know it was only one card. [:)] Seriously, I worked as a property manager on Saturdays for a local apartment complex for a while, and we took credit cards. You wouldn't believe the people that came-in with more than one card with a story like, "put $300 on this one, $200 on this one, and the rest on this one." At work we've bought Streamlight flashlights from Ramo in the past, and have some of their "Aerial Distraction Burst" rounds from them on order. We won't be buying from them again. They seemed a step above Botach, but maybe they aren't.z
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 4:03:07 PM EDT
They also used to call me ammoboy.com when i started.
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LOL. ammoboy.com is taken, but ammojunior.com isn't in case someone wants to take this joke too far.z
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 7:10:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ammoman: C'mon guys, i'm an old man for christ sake. I started with a $100 limit and worked my way up.Tells you how old i am. They also used to call me ammoboy.com when i started.[:)] Eric the ammoboy
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Then shouldn't you be ammogeezer.com now???[;)]
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 7:15:27 PM EDT
30,000 is a lot of money to be doing on verbal agreement or a handshake. Most any type of contract you enter into with an ernest deposit that deposit would be forfeited if the buyer did not hold up his end of the bargain. That is the whole point of a security deposit. So that the buyer will have less incentive to back out of a deal. You were not real specific in details on the deal and you put it all on them. Perhaps they did not meet thier end of the bargain. We don't know the details. Few companies would be able to take 30K as ernest money against a pending order then after they were on the hook for the order be able to absore the 30K when the buyer for the order backed out. If they represented something as being ready to ship with balance due upon shipping that is one thing if through thier fault the conclusion of the deal did not come in a timely fashion. If I ordered a container load of IMI blue tip subsonic 9mm from you and paid half up front then cancled once you already had the shipment comming it would not be fair for you if I backed out at that late moment and you were stuck with the lot.
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 7:19:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2002 7:19:55 PM EDT by Mortech]
Gee ammoman , my anniversary is coming up and now that you have 30K free I'm sure you would want to buy me something special [;D] Don't you just love those corporate cards or better yet a government one !
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 7:23:17 PM EDT
With $30k extra in your pocket i'm expecting a huge blow out sale this weekend. How about it? [:D]
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 9:27:37 PM EDT
Tommy Brown, Eric said that he ordered whatever merch it was, then waited [b]two months[/b]. I don't know about you, but if I order something from a company and they can't get it in two months, I look elsewhere. Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on TV?
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 9:30:59 PM EDT
What were you buying?
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 9:53:58 PM EDT
I live in Nashville & I've never heard of these guys. What do they sell & where are they located?
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 10:56:35 PM EDT
[url]www.ramo.com/companyinfo/[/url] "Ramo's primary focus is on weapons, ammunition, protective gear, clothing, training, and accessories to support military and law enforcement personnel worldwide in their fight against [b]criminals[/b] and terrorists." The pot calling the kettle black. If trying to steal $30k isn't criminal, I dunno what is.
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 11:04:17 PM EDT
Neat stuff, my Browning 1919 was made by Ramo. I've never had to deal with them though.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 2:19:50 AM EDT
Tommybrown brings up a point. This was a deposit for 3 million rounds of the loose Lake City ammo.They were the broker between Alliant corp. and myself.Ramo and 2 other sources confirmed that all 3rd. party shipments of the Laky City 223 have been cancelled.Ramo did not have the ability or just did not want to return the money. No other way to cut it. Eric the ammoman
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:02:04 AM EDT
Thanx ammoman, point well taken
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:00:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ammoman: 3 million rounds of the loose Lake City ammo
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(said in best Homer Simpson voice) mmmmm.......3 million rounds of Lake City ammo. medcop
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:29:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 12:29:56 PM EDT by ammoman]
Interesting??? My post on the subguns BOI went missing. I wonder if Ramo has friends in the machine gun community? Integrity is the name of the game. Eric the ammoman (spelling edit again)
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 12:53:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 2:27:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 2:28:23 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 2:39:45 PM EDT
Great job AMMOMAN. I still your target Colt AR. I am working on it...I am I am.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 6:37:29 PM EDT
Sounds like Ramo dropped the ball, but with out more information in the original post we were left to our own assumptions and we all know assume just makes an ASS of U and ME
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 6:48:13 PM EDT
I bought a bunch of that South African 5.56 55gr in the sealed battle packs and I have seldom had better service than I got from the Ammoman. The order was on my doorstep in three days, no hassles, no BS, Heck Ammoman even sent me a free freezer magnet that annoys my old lady to no end. If ammoman says Ramo's B.S. then I believe him.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 6:51:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fearandloathing37: I bought a bunch of that South African 5.56 55gr in the sealed battle packs and I have seldom had better service than I got from the Ammoman. The order was on my doorstep in three days, no hassles, no BS, Heck Ammoman even sent me a free freezer magnet that annoys my old lady to no end. If ammoman says Ramo's B.S. then I believe him.
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preach it.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:07:02 PM EDT
Hummmm, grenades! Ammoman needs grenades.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:15:07 PM EDT
Ammoman needs grenades.
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From his web site, "AT AMMOMAN THE PRICE YOU SEE IS THE PRICE YOU PAY." I wonder if his price for grenades would include bail for when you get arrested?z
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 7:28:22 PM EDT
If my MCI math is correct $30k for 3 million rounds is $.01 per round. Thats what 22 lr goes for. Tack on shipping, licensing, insurance, overhead, etc. You would still be in it right. I don't know how you guys make any money. Although you might have been able to make some decent money outta that one.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:28:53 PM EDT
No offense Eric, but I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more to this story.... Ramo is a large and reputable company. I seriously doubt they would take your money if they were not at least reasonably confident that they could get you your ammo. Furthermore, I find it very hard to believe that a company like Ramo would purposely extort $30,000 in the manner that you described. Lastly, (mostly from personal experiences) I find that public airing of dirty laundry (especially when the full story is not given)is usually a bad idea. Just my humble .02
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:43:34 PM EDT
I find that public airing of dirty laundry (especially when the full story is not given)is usually a bad idea.
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I thought he gave enough of the story. He put $30K down on 3 million rounds of ammo (assume it was SS109). Ramo couldn't deliever, so they should have refunded the deposit. locolife, what is there to the story that you think we're not hearing? I had a bad experience when I ordered from him (he still hasn't answered what happened even after hounding him), but even I don't think there's more to this story.z
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 5:40:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom: I wonder if his price for grenades would include bail for when you get arrested?z
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I need one of those "hornet's nest" grenades to toss out when that stupid dog chases my truck. I'll take a case. There are a lot of stupid dogs.
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 6:04:40 AM EDT
Anybody want to bet that locolife would not send them $30,000 for any reason at any time, unless it was a credit card and he had recourse, after reading this.???? That's what it's all about. A warning to you, sir. Take it for what it's worth.My guess is that you are listening.I have done over $500,000 in business with Ramo and always got what i paid for.Remember this, even Enron was a real big player at one time. The $30,000 was a deposit and the ammo was to have been shipped.The deal was cancelled by the US Army, according to Ramo, and they would not give the money back. What part of the story don't you get??? You say you are willing to bet there is more to this story??? I'll bet you $30,000 dollars. Let me know if you accept my bet?? Eric the ammoman
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 6:18:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2002 6:21:41 AM EDT by Sundrop]
I can't imagine anyone not believing what Eric the ammoman says. What's wrong with you fellows? Ammoman has shown his reputable credentials many times here. He provided specific details. He sent it as an alert for buyers to beware based on his experience. The message is there. All you have to do is open your eyes to it. Jim
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 5:37:56 PM EDT
I have purchased ammo from ammoman, and I most certainly will again. When the ss109 ran out, Eric asked to refund my $$$, but I changed product and he happily gave me a more expensive item at the lower price. I wish everyone had the funny notion that you need to keep your customer happy. I'm a happy customer and frequent customer and I'll be the same to the ammoman in the future.
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 10:07:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2002 10:29:30 PM EDT by locolife]
Eric, as I wrote before, my intent is not to call you a liar, it is to merely point out that there are always two sides to the story. In fact, your response proves my point. You originally left out the part about the U.S. Army canceling the deal. That would seem to indicate that Ramo was initially able to sell you the ammo but then the deal was subsequently cancelled by a third party over which they have no control. You also mention the fact that Ramo refused to give you back your deposit. The reason they refused would also be important information. Additionally, the fact that you have previously done over half a million dollars worth of business with them... without any problems... would seem to indicate that this is probably just a misunderstanding. However, by airing this misunderstanding publicly, you may have ruined a good source of product for your business. Again, you have a great reputation in the business, as does Ramo, however I think that publicizing these sorts of things do more harm than good. P.S. In response to your bet, although I don't know you or anyone at Ramo personally, I would not hesitate to send either of you a check for $30,000 In fact, next time you want to buy from them I will gladly put up the money for the deal... for a profit, of course.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 4:54:00 AM EDT
This is one of those posts I don't like to see, because I know and respect both parties. We buy all our .50 BMG ammo from Eric, and send all our customers there. Eric is a great guy to deal with, period. On the other hand, Glen from Ramo is a friend of mine, and his company is a pretty big player with the U.S. Military and with foreign military users. The guy is so mello, I can't imagine him getting mad over anything, ever! There must have been some extreme circumstances for Ramo not to have come through as they usually do. We *are* at war, and I know that there has been some problem getting .50 BMG from Uncle Sam. I think they'd rather shoot bad guys with it than to sell it to us, which I can understand! Anyway, Ramo does almost zero civilian business, so it's not like any of us here have to work to avoid them. But I don't think they deserve to have a bad reputation in the civilian community, either. Best to think of their deal with Eric as a glitch, and not indicative of how Ramo performs in general. Mark Serbu Serbu Firearms, Inc. www.serbu.com
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 5:03:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TommyBrown: Sounds like Ramo dropped the ball, but with out more information in the original post we were left to our own assumptions and we all know assume just makes an ASS of U and ME
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Nope. Eric is one of the good guys, if he says it, now matter the lack of details, we take it as *gospel; Why? because it is.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 10:04:22 AM EDT
Mark is one of the most respected in the industry.I should have gone to him to intercede, had i known Glen was his friend. I tried to be patient and objective.$30,000 is just too much money.They stopped all communication with me.Would not take phone calls or e-mails.They led me to believe i would not see the money anymore when they stopped communicating, after i asked for a refund.That's where it all went bad. You cannot take $30,000 and ignore e-mails and refuse phone calls.I would have answered the phone, walked over to the visa terminal and issued a credit on the spot.For some reason Ramo chose not to.They either did not have the ability to credit the money or they did not have the desire.Absolutley un-real that it came to this after all the good business and the nice relationship i had with Glen. If you are listening Glen, ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS TAKE MY CALL OR ANSWER MY E-MAILS. No other way for me to go then to dispute the charge and take it public.I really hope they didn't think i would go away and forget about $30,000. Thanks for chimming in Mark and if you get a chance, have Glen call me or post here and explain why the hell they would keep my money and not take my calls or answer my e-mails. I value and respect Mark Serbu's opinion and would love to hear if i could have handled this any different, and had my money back sooner. Eric the ammoman
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:57:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: WOW!!!! You are able to put $30,000 on a creidt card?? I am impressed! Sgtar15
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my American Express card will do it!
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:13:35 PM EDT
So, This is what happens when you dirty deal a customer and you don't advertise here. The Post gets a sticker, Ok. Works for me. JerrY
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 11:07:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 11:08:58 PM EDT by Steelviper]
Originally Posted By M700-308: So, This is what happens when you dirty deal a customer and you don't advertise here. The Post gets a sticker, Ok. Works for me.
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Bah. The anti-Rguns threads seem so frequent that they practically already are tacked. Besides, the insightful words (and interesting spelling) that KMA provides can brighten a day... Viper Out
Link Posted: 4/24/2002 6:11:40 AM EDT
Eric's position is simply that people should be cautious with this company. Perhaps more so than with others. Is that so bad? I tell people all the time to ALWAYS use a credit card when shopping at Fry's Electronics. I've seen time and time again where people get screwed because they have no recourse and the store knows it. Likewise, I cheerfully whip out the phone and tell them I'll be happy to dispute the charge when they refuse to deal with a perfectly valid complaint. Refusing to talk to your customers is bad any way you spin it. He has shown his integrity time and time again on this board. His message here is "beware", not "boycott". I'm wary of everyone. I pay Eric with a credit card and he's been great every time. Not everyone is so cautious.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 9:02:53 PM EDT
I think that the public airing of a behind-the-scenes business deal like this is bit of bad form. Especially, as you say you have had a half-million dollars worth of dealings have gone *right*. You are now trying to publicly savage the reputation of someone over a 30k deal gone sour (but not over yet) because of forces beyond the suppliers control. Seems to me, jumping the gun. RAMO is, apparently, guilty of getting screwed by the Army/ATK (and perhaps some competitors that called attention to this deal) in the middle of a high-stakes deal, and I suppose, not answering the phone to take care of you, which is also bad form. A question: Did you force the deposit on RAMO, trying to make sure they'd deliver, or did they ask you for it? At SHOT Show, I did a significant amount of business with RAMO and they did not ask for any money down, just a handshake that things would be invoiced when the shipping and selling of the product took place. Did they not have the funds to refund because it was tied up in the ammo that the Army reneged on? Ammoman, while I haven't done business with you, I have directed dozens of clients on to your site simply because of word-of-mouth reputation in this industry. I will continue to do so, because you seem to hold an integrity with your clients and, beyond that, have very fair pricing. I simply feel that for someone that has built his reputation day after day doing business, you should see that it was not right to ensure that RAMO got a public blast at a bad business time for them while they were being screwed by The Powers That Be. I realize what a pain it is when you have advertised something and then have the supply you counted on pulled out from under you. But please realize that RAMO is in the same situation here, and some degree of civility and professionalism should be employed. I sincerely hope that your business and RAMO can patch these bad feelings when the ammo comes around again. Kel Two sides to every story.
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