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Posted: 4/17/2002 4:03:22 PM EDT
[url]http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064434[/url] Automatics for the People Why do Palestinians have M-16s? By Scott Shuger Posted Wednesday, April 17, 2002, at 12:33 PM PT
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 4:27:02 PM EDT
Interesting... "M-16s are prized on the West Bank for their ability to use readily available Israeli ammunition and for their numerous accessories, such as telescopic sights and grenade launchers. (Growing in popularity among Palestinians is the newer, short-barreled version, the M-4.)"
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 5:04:13 PM EDT
This is fascinating. The Palestinians received 15,000 AK-47s, but they prefer M-16s. M16s are selling for $1500.00 on the black market in the West Bank. British Commandos are also using M-4s and M-16s. The special forces (Delta, Rangers, Para Jumpers) also seem to love M-4s and M-16s. Individuals whose lives are at stake are going with AR type weapons. It seems that people who have a choice, choose M-16 (M-4, AR-15). (Nobody wants AKs boo-hoo)
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 5:30:51 PM EDT
Ha! Even the uneducated peasant types who the AK was desgined for know better. Go show this to the AK-47.net crowd, wherever they may be now.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 6:03:02 PM EDT
While most Israeli soldiers love the M16, part of the reason they use it is that the U.S. aid stipulates that a majority of the military aid must be spent on U.S. products. But it is still commonplace to see high-ranking Israeli officers carrying the Galil, and the AK47 is still the primary weapon in use by the Shayetet 13 (Israel's answer to the Navy Seals). [(:|)]
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 6:03:37 PM EDT
I already know the Kalishnikov people's defense: Palestinians are too stupid. They are dumb enough to blow themselves up instead of shooting Israelis.
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 7:15:14 PM EDT
I think its more of an ammo issue here. Not that they like or dislike one over the other. the fact is they will use what the enemy uses so they can capture the enemys stuff and use it. I dont care how much you like a weapon you wont use it if you cant get ammo for it and aparently stealing it is the best way for them im not knoking one weapon or the other
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 5:31:36 AM EDT
I don't know about the article's claim that "every" M16 in Palestinian territory is "illegal" under the Oslo Accords. The Clinton Administration transferred lots of former US military M16A1s to foreign countries, including Bosnia and the Palestinian Authority. We gave the PA alot of aged equipment, like the old CUCV trucks (Diesel chevy pickups and Blazers) and rifles in the 1990s as part of foreign aid programs. Foreign transfers of these weapons were why American law enforcement was unable to get free M16s from the government for several years. Oddly enough, we gave new M16A2s to Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 8:37:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PoliticalScience: While most Israeli soldiers love the M16, part of the reason they use it is that the U.S. aid stipulates that a majority of the military aid must be spent on U.S. products. But it is still commonplace to see high-ranking Israeli officers carrying the Galil, and the AK47 is still the primary weapon in use by the Shayetet 13 (Israel's answer to the Navy Seals). [(:|)]
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Wrong!!! Below is a quote from a former IDF SF soldier... [note that the passage "In fact, it's the other way around... was responding to an argument made that the U.S. forces M16's onto Israel. Just to clear up some confusion in the reply switching from positive to negative/rebuttal] Dear Sirs As the webmaster of isayeret.com I usually don't reply in forums (not enough time) but since this is a repetitive question, I'll make an exception. 1. As a former member of the Israeli Special Forces most of my experience is with the M16, Galil and the AK47. Thus I will not compare the Galil/M16 with other assault rifles I'm less familiar with. But between the M16 and the Galil the M16 is by FAR the more superior weapon. It's lighter, more accurate, more versatile, and with proper maintenance is very reliable. True, it might be less sand proof. So what? You can clean it once a day and it will work like a charm. I've carried a CAR15 for almost five years it's a great weapon. The Galil on the other hand, is heavy, not accurate and you can't put any optics on it without special adapters. Many people also don't like the Galil/AK safety mechanism but that's more an issue of a personal preference. 2. The reason for the IDF choice of using the M16 over the Galil ISN'T the cost. It’s the pure quality of the M16 over the crappy Galil. Most of IDF troops hate the Galil and will take a CAR15 over it any day. In fact it's the other way around! The reason that the IDF buy Israeli weapons is because it's forced too by inner-Israeli political pressure. For example, the IMI forced the Israeli Police to buy the Jericho 941 handguns. The IDF manage to escape the pressure in this case and got the much better Sig 228/226. 3. The M16 is indeed cheaper but if it was the cost factor alone then the IDF could have simply supply all the rear line troops with the M16 and give the Galil to the front line troops. The fact that the opposite was done speaks for itself. In the IDF elite SF units, for example, the Galil was never used! They always wanted the CAR15 over it. 4. IMI is a crappy company. It's very non efficient and in many times IMI failed to deliver spare parts in time. You simply can't depend on them in a time of need. 5. contrary to the previous post, the Galil SAR, which is the most common Galil variant used by the IDF, has a 13 inch barrel while the CAR15 used has a 14.5 inch barrel (like a M4/M4A1). Best regards, Daniel Cohen, Webmaster http://www.isayeret.com The Israeli Special Forces Home Page
Link Posted: 4/18/2002 11:25:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By James4: Wrong!!! Below is a quote from a former IDF SF soldier... [note that the passage "In fact, it's the other way around... was responding to an argument made that the U.S. forces M16's onto Israel. Just to clear up some confusion in the reply switching from positive to negative/rebuttal]
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No, I am not "Wrong!!!". My statement was "While most Israeli soldiers love the M16, part of the reason they use it is that the U.S. aid stipulates that a majority of the military aid must be spent on U.S. products." That is still true. It doesn't mean that they are [u]required[/u] to buy the M16 or that they are "forced" to buy the M16. My statement was that "[b]part of the reason[/b] they use it is that...". It's true. Israel receives billions in U.S. aid, and are required to spend a lion's share of it on U.S. military contracts. Of course it's not the only reason they use the M16, but it is "part of the reason". Neither the IDF soldier's statements were incorrect nor were mine. [(:|)]
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