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Posted: 4/16/2002 5:05:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2002 6:57:05 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50403,00.html[/url] WASHINGTON — A Bush administration official was interrupted and booed Monday when he told thousands of people gathered at the Capitol for a pro-Israel rally that Palestinians as well as Israelis have been victims of Mideast violence. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz was drowned out by chants of "no more Arafat" and booed as he told the crowd that "innocent Palestinians are suffering and dying as well. It is critical that we recognize and acknowledge that fact." Wolfowitz, the second-ranked official at the Pentagon, was one of dozens of speakers at what sponsors said was the largest pro-Israel rally ever staged in this country. Tom Schottenstein of Columbus, Ohio, said he left home at 11 p.m. Sunday night with a group of 300. "We wanted to show our support" for Israel, he said. "It's very frustrating not to be able to do anything." Most of the speakers conveyed a strongly pro-Israel message: "We will stand with Israel, we will stand for freedom," said House Democratic leader Dick Gephardt of Missouri, speaking before an array of U.S. and Israeli flags on the steps of the Capitol Building. "We can't expect Israel to stand idle while its citizens are being slaughtered," said Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, the Senate's No. 2 Democrat. Wolfowitz, too, voiced strong support for Israel's fight against terrorism. He said President Bush was horrified by the carnage in Israel and had asked Wolfowitz to represent him and stress that "terrorism must end. Hatred of Israel must end." But many at the rally showed little sympathy with Wolfowitz's further message that the majority of Palestinians also want an end to violence and that "hard decisions must be made by both sides to achieve a lasting peace." He was forced to stop speaking several times to wait for the crowd to quiet down. Among the other speakers were former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli Housing Minister Natan Sharansky, former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-Texas, AFL-CIO President John Sweeney and New York Gov. George Pataki. Netanyahu was cheered when he said that "Arafat does not want a Palestinian state next to Israel; he wants a Palestinian state instead of Israel." Americans know, he said, that "Yasser Arafat is nothing more than Osama bin Laden with good P.R." An unusual April heat wave sent temperatures well into the 80s, and Fire Department spokesman Alan Etter said several dozen people were examined for heat exhaustion and many were taken to area hospitals for treatment. The rally was sponsored by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations and the United Jewish Communities.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:27:32 PM EDT
Gephardt - he'll stand by anything for a buck. No, there must be no balance. There must be only the Israeli view.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 5:41:59 PM EDT
Hey, ain't Wolfowitz a jew-boy? Wottza jew-boy doin talkin like a durn fool? Eric The(Hayseed)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 6:59:20 PM EDT
Eric, exactly what part of "innocent Palestinians are suffering and dying as well. It is critical that we recognize and acknowledge that fact." do you take issue with? Do you reject the fact that some of the Palestinians being killed are innocent? Or do you reject the notion that we must look at the entire truth at the expense of a Pro-Israel agenda?
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 7:34:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Eric, exactly what part of "innocent Palestinians are suffering and dying as well. It is critical that we recognize and acknowledge that fact." do you take issue with? Do you reject the fact that some of the Palestinians being killed are innocent? Or do you reject the notion that we must look at the entire truth at the expense of a Pro-Israel agenda?
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What? No answer to the above questions?!!! DaMan
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 7:41:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Hey, ain't Wolfowitz a jew-boy? Wottza jew-boy doin talkin like a durn fool? Eric The(Hayseed)Hun[>]:)]
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I'll explain my [img]http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/hayseed.gif[/img] friend. Wolfowitz is the chief proponent in the administration of going back to Iraq. He knows that the U.S. has to appear to be an honest broker on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or such an endeavor will be vigorously opposed by the Arabs (with whom he communicates with frequently). So to answer your question, he is looking at the big picture (from his perspective).
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:15:32 PM EDT
Sorry, SteyrAUG, I didn't know that you had addressed a question to me - I've been over on a couple of religious threads, beating out the fires. Only reason I came back here is that I thought I saw a skunk in the neighborhood. So to answer your thoughtful questions:
Eric, exactly what part of "innocent Palestinians are suffering and dying as well. It is critical that we recognize and acknowledge that fact." do you take issue with?
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I don't. I have seen the photographs, as well as heard the descriptions, probably as much, if not more than anyone I know. War is horrible, it always will be horrible. But if you told me during the bombing of any city in Germany during WWII, that there were innocent children who bore a striking resemblance to my granddaughters, Kristin or Whitney, or my grandson, Garrett, who were being burned beyond recognition solely due to the US or British bombs that were raining down on them, I would only have two questions: Is there any way to avoid these casualties? Is there any way to shorten the time needed to accomplish the military objectives? If the considered answers were no and no, then if I were in charge, I would say continue the bombing until we see a white flag. Period. It all boils down to Palestinian terrorism against the civilian population of Israel. If the same thing were happening in the United States, I can only imagine the reactions of the folks on this Board! We've already seen the reaction of the US to the Sept 11th attack - how does that attack differ one blessed iota from what is happening daily in Israel? It doesn't at all. But the US didn't first offer 'land for peace' to Osama Bin Laden did it? Did the world community demand that Colin Powell go to Kabul to reason with the Taliban to turn over Bin Laden, or to get Osama to change his modus operandi, or at least his rhetoric? Was the US told to make the attack into Afghanistan 'quick and surgical'? Was there any limit put on the time period when the US was permitted to conclude its military occupation of Afghanistan? And, finally, do you have any idea how many innocent Afghan children were killed as the direct result of US bombing and other military operations? - continued -
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:16:21 PM EDT
Do you reject the fact that some of the Palestinians being killed are innocent?
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Surely, I have seen pictures of very young children, ah, but some of their parents are none too innocent! Do you reject the fact that some of the Afghans killed by the US military are innocent?
Or do you reject the notion that we must look at the entire truth at the expense of a Pro-Israel agenda?
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I am always willing to look at the truth, and whether it favors Israel or not doesn't stop me from discerning what the truth might be. Thankfully, Israel's actions have been above reproach in this matter. They have risked their own troops on the ground in order to minimize civilian casualties rather than to use their incredible air force or excellent artillery to wipe out the vermin in the refugee camps. Now this is exactly the opposite of the US strategy in Afghanistan. There we eschew using ground troops so long as we can use aircraft and artillery to do the heavy lifting. The deaths of US soldiers in combat is what? About 30? I forget the latest casualty figures. The Israeli military casualties for Operation Protective Wall is also around 30. And since our country's population is approx. 55 times that of Israel's, the proportionate number of US servicemen dead to equal Israel's would be 1,650 dead. Can you imagine where George W's approval rating would be if he had lost 1,650 men in the Afghan operation? Can you say 'Gore in 2004'? Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:16:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter69:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Hey, ain't Wolfowitz a jew-boy? Wottza jew-boy doin talkin like a durn fool? Eric The(Hayseed)Hun[>]:)]
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I'll explain my [img]http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/hayseed.gif[/img] friend. Wolfowitz is the chief proponent in the administration of going back to Iraq. He knows that the U.S. has to appear to be an honest broker on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or such an endeavor will be vigorously opposed by the Arabs (with whom he communicates with frequently). So to answer your question, he is looking at the big picture (from his perspective).
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BINGO! You got it, Mr. shooter69! DaMan
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:36:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I don't.
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Then why are you seemingly critical of Paul Wolfowitz who made these statements? You said and I quote...
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Wottza jew-boy doin talkin like a durn fool?
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Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Surely, I have seen pictures of very young children, ah, but some of their parents are none too innocent!
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But see neither Paul, nor I suggested ALL Palestinians were innocent. The statement was they are not ALL guilty. And he was booed for it.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Do you reject the fact that some of the Afghans killed by the US military are innocent?
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Of course many are gonna be. As were the Germans and other examples you cited. This real troublemakers always seem to slip away and leave the carnage to their "countrymen." The BIG difference is "I" would never BOO somebody for suggesting that "some" of the Afghans are innocent. That is what this is about.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I am always willing to look at the truth, and whether it favors Israel or not doesn't stop me from discerning what the truth might be.
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So why did you "seemingly" agree with the booing of Wolfowitz?
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 9:06:44 PM EDT
Post from SteyrAUG -
Then why are you seemingly critical of Paul Wolfowitz who made these statements?
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I didn't. I said, and I quote, [b]'Wottza jew-boy doin talkin like a durn fool?'[/b] Now think about it, SteyrAUG. Is that how I usually speak. Is that how I usually speak about Jews? Calling them 'jew-boys'? Did you notice my parenthetical phrase in my sig line 'TheHayseed'? Would you like to buy a clue?
But see neither Paul, nor I suggested ALL Palestinians were innocent. The statement was they are not ALL guilty. And he was booed for it.
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Since I was not present, I am uncertain just what Mr. Wolfowitz was being booed for and what he wasn't being booed for. I saw the entire event on CSPAN, and listened to Wolfowitz' entire speech. Call it a bad sound system or whatever, I wasn't even aware he was being booed until I heard about it later. I don't recall that he ever said in his speech that 'Palestinians are not all guilty' and then got booed for it! I have looked for a transcript of the speech, but can't find one yet.
Of course many are gonna be. As were the Germans and other examples you cited. This real troublemakers always seem to slip away and leave the carnage to their "countrymen."
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Nope, the Russians pulled Hitler's sorry carcasse out of the bomb crater, so he didn't get to slip away
The BIG difference is "I" would never BOO somebody for suggesting that "some" of the Afghans are innocent. That is what this is about.
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Well, then you have more manners and civility than that ragamuffin band of pro-Israeli hooligans who were listening to Wolfowitz' speech and booing all the while.
So why did you "seemingly" agree with the booing of Wolfowitz?
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Actually, I didn't at first, but now I think you've talked me into it! Paul Wolfowitz was the Bush Sr. Administration Middle East expert who was rushed to Israel during the Gulf War, when the Scuds began falling upon Israel, to convince them to let the United States take care of the problem for them. He is still well-respected in Israel. But I suppose he met an angry crowd that would have torn up anyone talking nice about the Palestinians. Same as if Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia had appeared on Sept. 12th at any ballpark in the US to throw out the first pitch! Whatever the issue, this is still America after all, and if some riff-raff want to boo a high-level Bush Administration foreign policy advisor, well then I guess they can! Eric The(StillReasonableAfterAllTheseYears)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 9:18:27 PM EDT
Eric sorry for NOT catching the "southern drawl." Wolfowitz's direct quote is in my original post from the FOX link. That is if you consider FOX a credible source.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 9:28:43 PM EDT
"An unusual April heat wave sent temperatures well into the 80s, and Fire Department spokesman Alan Etter said several dozen people were examined for heat exhaustion and many were taken to area hospitals for treatment." What a bunch of *ussies! In the 80's & they're fainting? LMFAO! Then again, I'm Texan. No one faints here until it hits 120. Still, fainting in the 80's? LOL...
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 9:59:11 PM EDT
Sounds like a certain group is hypocritically in favor of genocide.
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