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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:06:01 PM EDT
I found two timed artillery fuzes and a solid projectile in a tin can yesterday. My father in law owned a factory that made munitions and various other military items but I don't know why he had these. The fuze looks to me like they are WW1 German, but I don't know anything about these things so I'm guessing.

There was also a solid steel projectile with a brass ring swagged on it to engage the rifleing. It has been cut to show this ring.

Anyone know anything about this stuff? (more info and pics below)



Fuze 1 Below

Stamped on it:

Dopp . Z . 92 o Vorst.
Sp 18
29

The time ring goes from 2 - 40






Fuze 2

H . Z . 05 . 17 . Sonr
Sb 18

Time ring goes from 3 -70






Here's the solid steel projectile cutaway.

It measures 25MM at the raised brass ring X 99MM long.






Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:07:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 5:09:23 PM EDT by LazarusLong]
Dibs on guns. And that is pretty neat

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:09:42 PM EDT


Ever heard of a 'StarGate'?

Well don't fuck with the time rings or we're all doomed.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:09:44 PM EDT
Does a artilery fuse have any type of explosive in it? Hit it with a hammer numerous times to make sure it is inert....
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:09:57 PM EDT
Can't tell you anything about them, but cool find
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By delemorte:
Does a artilery fuse have any type of explosive in it? Hit it with a hammer numerous times to make sure it is inert....


I don't think so...

I found them by knocking the tin can from a shelf that was about 7 feet from a concrete floor.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:15:22 PM EDT
I hope those fuzes dont have the Boosters in them. Especially being that old.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:16:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 5:16:56 PM EDT by freerider04]
I wouldn't fuck with em, but thats just me.

I'm lucky I still have all 9 fingers considering my past history with gun related stuff blowing up in me face.

ETA: 10! I have 10 fingers!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:18:34 PM EDT
We found this at work at the old Charleston Navy base.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:21:56 PM EDT
Ummm yeah.

There could still be a few grams of something very nasty in those units.

Just because they did not detonate when they hit the deck the first time means nothing.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:22:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By strycnine:
We found this at work at the old Charleston Navy base.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/strycnine/0315090650-1.jpg


And I'd go "HAHA Fuck you, I'm walking thataway."

Old ordnance, especially unidentifiable does not make Freerider a happy person.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:26:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By freerider04:
Originally Posted By strycnine:
We found this at work at the old Charleston Navy base.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/strycnine/0315090650-1.jpg


And I'd go "HAHA Fuck you, I'm walking thataway."

Old ordnance, especially unidentifiable does not make Freerider a happy person.



An employee was turning the fuse. I got the fuck out of there.

Airforce guys came by and got it.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:30:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By freerider04:
I wouldn't fuck with em, but thats just me.

I'm lucky I still have all 9 fingers considering my past history with gun related stuff blowing up in me face.


wat?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 5:40:51 PM EDT by metalman3006]
No, but I found this old one in St. Micheals MD, my wife wont let me bring it in the house.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:41:33 PM EDT
Do NOT fuck with UXO unless you want the nickname 'stumpy'.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:45:24 PM EDT
The steel projo is probably a training cutaway, of an early anti-tank rifle round...

The cavity in the back would be for tracer compound...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:48:22 PM EDT
Messing with UXOs is so a bad idea.............
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:48:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lokt:
Originally Posted By freerider04:
I wouldn't fuck with em, but thats just me.

I'm lucky I still have all 9 fingers considering my past history with gun related stuff blowing up in me face.


wat?




My 10 fat fingers apparently don't work together with my brain when typing

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:57:37 PM EDT
I have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs....so far.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:58:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 6:00:45 PM EDT by CyberIntel]
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Does a artilery fuse have any type of explosive in it? Hit it with a hammer numerous times to make sure it is inert....


Uh . . . yeah. Former artillery officer here. Yes, fuses have a small amount of HE in them, they are the initiator for the explosive chain and they detonate the primary charge. That's more or less the whole point of a fuze. Now, on a modern fuze you can play baseball with it and you would be OK, because the fuze only arms after it spins for a little bit after the shell is fired. On a fuze this old who knows? Obviously, as you said you already knocked it off a shelf and still have all your fingers and toes. It's either inert by design or you got lucky or it needs to be fired and spin first before it arms. Anyway, you are better off having it properly disposed of.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:00:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freerider04:
I wouldn't fuck with em, but thats just me.

I'm lucky I still have all 9 fingers considering my past history with gun related stuff blowing up in me face.

ETA: 10! I have 10 fingers!
lulz

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:14:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 10:07:28 PM EDT by Brundoggie]
The two fuzes are powder train time fuzes probably used in front ejecting shrapnel rounds. Hot gases from the projectile propellant ignite a pyrotechnic composition in the fuze which has the burn length adjusted by turning the rings. I don't have my WWI German ordnance pubs at home so I can't look up the exact identification/functioning. The second fuze is very similar to the fuze found in US/French 75mm shrapnel projectiles.

I've graduated EOD school in 1980 and only have 8 fingers.










And two thumbs.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:16:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:41:38 PM EDT by Miles_Urbanus]
The stamping definitely looks German.

If you can't get an answer here. These chaps can help
British Ordnance Collectors Network Forums
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:17:11 PM EDT
The brass ring on the small projectile is known as the "rotating band" despite the fact that it isn't supposed to rotate. To determine the size of the projectile you have to measure at the widest part of the steel body, not the outside of the rotating band.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:21:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:22:23 PM EDT by Brundoggie]
To Metalman - if your cannon ball has a brass plug-like thing in it, it probably contains a black powder filler and is still very dangerous. The plug is about the size of a nickel or quarter and should be obvious. If the ball is all iron with no plug it still has a DDOT hazard associated with it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:03:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 8:48:22 PM EDT by Miles_Urbanus]
Originally Posted By OlCrow:
Fuze 1 Below
Stamped on it:
Dopp . Z . 92 o Vorst.
Sp 18
29
The time ring goes from 2 - 40


"Fuze 1"
Dopp. = Doppel Zunder: Time & Percussion Fuse
Z. = Zunder: Fuze
92 = 1892 (year adopted)
17=?
O Vorst. Vorstecker means "safety pin". I believe the O may be an abbreviation for "Ohne" which means "without". So without safety pin?
The time graduations are 6/8 to 28 in seconds and eights of of a second. When the setting mark is opposite the cross, the fuse is set for percussion



Originally Posted By OlCrow:
Fuze 2
H . Z . 05 . 17 . Sonr
Sb 18
Time ring goes from 3 -70

The H.Z. 05 is listed under "Obsolete German Artillery Fuzes." pg.4 (c) Fuzes for Universal Shell.
"Fuze 2"
H.Z. = Haubitz-ziinder: Howitzer Fuse
05 = 1905 (year adopted)
Schr not "scnr". Schr = Schrapnel: Shrapnel

Source: "Notes of German Fuzes 1918"
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 4:36:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brundoggie:
The two fuzes are powder train time fuzes probably used in front ejecting shrapnel rounds. Hot gases from the projectile propellant ignite a pyrotechnic composition in the fuze which has the burn length adjusted by turning the rings. I don't have my WWI German ordnance pubs at home so I can't look up the exact identification/functioning. The second fuze is very similar to the fuze found in US/French 75mm shrapnel projectiles.

I've graduated EOD school in 1980 and only have 8 fingers.

And two thumbs.


Not that this means much, but the second fuze has a wax pencil marking on it in two places that says "75". More than likely written by my father in law. His company made things like this during WWII and there was a pile of old stuff like this that they had around for examples. Most was disposed of long ago but some of it is still turning up.

I know they made hand grenades, I found a whole 55 gallon drum of them years ago in a backroom of the plant. The lid was marked "dispose". They weren't live, just the main part, no paint, no go boom stuff.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 4:40:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brundoggie:
The brass ring on the small projectile is known as the "rotating band" despite the fact that it isn't supposed to rotate. To determine the size of the projectile you have to measure at the widest part of the steel body, not the outside of the rotating band.


That part measures 24.89mm. An odd size.

The actual diameter on the raised ring is 25.54.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 4:42:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:
Originally Posted By OlCrow:
Fuze 1 Below
Stamped on it:
Dopp . Z . 92 o Vorst.
Sp 18
29
The time ring goes from 2 - 40


"Fuze 1"
Dopp. = Doppel Zunder: Time & Percussion Fuse
Z. = Zunder: Fuze
92 = 1892 (year adopted)
17=?
O Vorst. Vorstecker means "safety pin". I believe the O may be an abbreviation for "Ohne" which means "without". So without safety pin?
The time graduations are 6/8 to 28 in seconds and eights of of a second. When the setting mark is opposite the cross, the fuse is set for percussion
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4540/pg114fromnotesongermanf.jpg


Originally Posted By OlCrow:
Fuze 2
H . Z . 05 . 17 . Sonr
Sb 18
Time ring goes from 3 -70

The H.Z. 05 is listed under "Obsolete German Artillery Fuzes." pg.4 (c) Fuzes for Universal Shell.
"Fuze 2"
H.Z. = Haubitz-ziinder: Howitzer Fuse
05 = 1905 (year adopted)
Schr not "scnr". Schr = Schrapnel: Shrapnel

Source: "Notes of German Fuzes 1918"

Thank you for the info.

So I guessed right? They are WWI German.



And THANK YOU to all that replied.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:10:44 AM EDT
Would he not be able to see any material through the hole/holes in the bottom with a bright light?
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 10:53:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 10:53:46 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
Originally Posted By Brundoggie:
To Metalman - if your cannon ball has a brass plug-like thing in it, it probably contains a black powder filler and is still very dangerous. The plug is about the size of a nickel or quarter and should be obvious. If the ball is all iron with no plug it still has a DDOT hazard associated with it.


Some cannonballs also used wooden fuses. I know that I got sick of inerting cannonballs, with both brass and wood fuses, when I was with the 45th EOD at Ft Polk in 1966. They had been under water for over a hundred years and some still had dry powder inside.

I know someone wants to ask. DDOT means "don't drop on toe."
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:16:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
I know someone wants to ask. DDOT means "don't drop on toe."




In my line of work, we call that a FYFPOSTFH (fuck! you fucking piece of shit! that fucking hurt!) that hazard.

I guess yours is a bit easier

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:32:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Brundoggie:
To Metalman - if your cannon ball has a brass plug-like thing in it, it probably contains a black powder filler and is still very dangerous. The plug is about the size of a nickel or quarter and should be obvious. If the ball is all iron with no plug it still has a DDOT hazard associated with it.


There is no brass plug but it does look like there might be a cast iron plug about the size of a quarter corroded into it. I do think it is solid though, it weighs 29 lbs 5 ounces.
A little back story St. Michaels was "The town that fooled the British" during the War of 1812, I don't now for sure this is from then but it is neat to think it might.
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