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Posted: 9/13/2010 11:13:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:13:59 AM EDT
Someone tried to shoot it in a 30-30?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:14:17 AM EDT
Fired out of battery?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:15:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 11:18:39 AM EDT by Strykewolf]
Someone forget to neck down some reload brass?

((ETA)) Or, forget to reset the reloading press when changing ammo?

((Yes...I'm throwing WAGs out there...haven't reloaded since I was a kid helpin' dad.))
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:15:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:16:41 AM EDT
Tag for info
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:16:47 AM EDT
Someone gave me a plastic ammo box full of rounds like that. They are all loaded and have that bulge in them. If I can find them later I will post a pic, not even sure why I kept them, no one knows why they are like that and still loaded.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:17:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 11:18:18 AM EDT by bloodsport2885]
Is the non-deformed brass from the same range? It appears to be developing some odd marks in the same place as the bulge. Possibly reloaded brass at the end of its life or OOB? I'm not too familiar with .30carbine.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:17:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 11:20:13 AM EDT by thirsty]
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?


Yup, but the brass held against the pressure, hence the deformation.

I've seen the same thing out of a .22 semi-auto, I think a Mossberg or a Marlin. The rifle had a tendency to eat sears, and occasionally it would let off a magazine in full-auto. Very unnerving. Brass looked the same as it does here, a result of discharging out of battery.

ETA: It isn't necessarily firing out of battery. It could be cycling too fast as well, and ejecting brass before pressure reduces enough to be safe.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:18:01 AM EDT
The case on the left was fired in the gun it was supposed to be fire in, the case on the left...wasn't.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:19:15 AM EDT
Fired in a .38 SPL revolver????


I'm stumped.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:19:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
Fired out of battery, lucky it didn't rupture.


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:19:53 AM EDT
massive headspace issues?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:21:42 AM EDT
I dunno... it's almost like it was fired in a revolver designed for a different (but similar) cartridge.

Weird.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:24:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
The case on the left was fired in the gun it was supposed to be fire in, the case on the left...wasn't.


So they fired the case on the left twice?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:26:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?


This. Person that did it was extremely lucky to say the least.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:26:56 AM EDT
tagged
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:27:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 11:30:44 AM EDT by xdoctor]
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.


ETA: Ok, firing pin stuck forward on an M1, fired as the round chambered. That's the only way I can figure.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:29:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 11:32:17 AM EDT by Old_Painless]
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:31:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By poke4570:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
The case on the left was fired in the gun it was supposed to be fire in, the case on the left...wasn't.


So they fired the case on the left twice?


Right, well I meant to say right instead of left...wait that's not right either...

I'll just say it this way: the left case was fired in the proper gun and the right case wasn't.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:32:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?


That's my best guess.

Or over-pressure with a slightly unsupported chamber.



Whatever it was, it was very close to ruining someones day!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:35:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 11:36:53 AM EDT by Vaux]
Years ago, when I was learning to reload, I was reloading some .308 and had the bullet seating die adjusted waaaaayyyy too far down. The finished round had a bulge around the base just like the case on the right. I learned how to use a bullet puller that day.

ETA: But, of course, those rounds would never have chambered, so firing out of battery is my guess as well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:37:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:37:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xdoctor:
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.


ETA: Ok, firing pin stuck forward on an M1, fired as the round chambered. That's the only way I can figure.


AMT made an Automag in .30 carbine too- hellaciously loud and pumpkin sized fireball.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:38:11 AM EDT
While I find it hard to believe an M1 carbine fired that far out of battery, it's the only answer I can come up with. Wow, that's a long way out of battery. And there's no way this came out of the Ruger revolver. It almost looks like a case resizing problem, but it would never have chambered, much less fired and it has none of the marks down the case I would expect to see if a sizing die did it. I just can't picture a gun with a similar sized cartridge that would hold it with just that much case exposed, and successfully fire it without blowing out the case. As much as I don't like it, it must have been an OOB fire in an M1.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:40:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Went to the range today and shot some C&R rifles. Had a fine time.

My shooting buddy, Vern, noticed a piece of brass and picked it up and showed it to me, and said, "What is this?"

I had a couple of guesses, but didn't know for sure.

Want to try?

It appears to be a round of .30 Carbine brass. I was not shooting a .30 Carbine, so it wasn't one of mine.

Here it is.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21849

It is the one on the right, with another round on the left for comparison.

Here's another view of the blown primer.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21850

And another view of the two rounds.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21851

That's all the information we have. Don't know what firearm. Don't know if they were reloads.

Before I tell what I think happened, anyone want to take a guess.





Picking up brass last weekend, found a 7.62x25 round just like that one. A lot of other(7.62x25) brass in same location but only one like it.






Roy
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:40:40 AM EDT
"LC 52" marked .30 carbine? Probably corrosive Chinese crap. That garbage will destroy carbines.

-Mark
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:43:05 AM EDT
30 carbine in a .357?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:51:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:
"LC 52" marked .30 carbine? Probably corrosive Chinese crap. That garbage will destroy carbines.

-Mark


My thoughts too.

And yes it most definitely fired out of battery. Ammo could have beem a contributing factor.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:55:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xdoctor:
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.


ETA: Ok, firing pin stuck forward on an M1, fired as the round chambered. That's the only way I can figure.


AMT Automag III (or II?) firing slightly out of battery?

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:59:28 AM EDT
Kimball pistol is another potential candidate. Kind of scarce, but they were a fluted chamber, blowback pistol. Looked like a big Hi-Standard auto.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:04:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rick-OShay:
Originally Posted By xdoctor:
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.


ETA: Ok, firing pin stuck forward on an M1, fired as the round chambered. That's the only way I can figure.


AMT Automag III (or II?) firing slightly out of battery?

Having worked in a gun store and seeing all types of people, I will say this...

Just becuase it is a .30 Carbine cartridge don't assume it was fired out of a gun chambered for the .30 Carb. We get a lot of people who seem to think ammo is interchangeable, like the old man that could not understand why the .38 Super would not work in his .357 S&W.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:10:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:11:40 PM EDT
someone didn't crimp their reloads?

Loaded up a mag. Started firing round in the mag had some OAL issues. My guess. Then again, I may not feed properly because of OAL issues so I'll just go with OOB firing.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:15:57 PM EDT
Universal m1 carbines are notorious for firing out of battery.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:16:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?

This.

...and it looks like it might have had a bit more powder than necessary.

It could also be that being fired out of battery may have helped deform the base, making it it LOOK like the primer deformed as well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:17:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 12:18:14 PM EDT by CMA]
Universal made a batch of M1 style carbines that were prone to fire out of battery. Enough so that they would crack the charging handle.

These are the carbines with the two spring design.

Yeah yeah beat by mere seconds..

lol
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:19:12 PM EDT
The primer doesn't look flattened so probably not a pressure issue. I wonder if someone tried to shoot it in a 30-06 or 308.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:33:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xdoctor:
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.


ETA: Ok, firing pin stuck forward on an M1, fired as the round chambered. That's the only way I can figure.


AMT Automag.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:39:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Originally Posted By xdoctor:
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.


ETA: Ok, firing pin stuck forward on an M1, fired as the round chambered. That's the only way I can figure.


AMT Automag.

I actually saw one of those shot last week at a Point Blank vest demo.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:43:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By goldpan-gus:
Universal m1 carbines are notorious for firing out of battery.


That is what I was going to post, My Universal used to do the same thing. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:45:37 PM EDT
I'm guessing out of battery as well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:45:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 12:46:46 PM EDT by DriftPunch]
That's way to uniform to be an out of battery firing. I'd expect it to pop before being that precise. Looks to me like it was fired in a rifle chambered for a belted cartridge, and it fireformed to the belt. I have no idea what belted cartridge would have a base that small though as generally they are thick. Maybe it was fired in an old oddball British chambering...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:54:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:57:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
That's way to uniform to be an out of battery firing. I'd expect it to pop before being that precise. Looks to me like it was fired in a rifle chambered for a belted cartridge, and it fireformed to the belt. I have no idea what belted cartridge would have a base that small though as generally they are thick. Maybe it was fired in an old oddball British chambering...


I honestly can't think of any other cartridge chamber that would allow a .30 Carbine to be fired and work.



I've actually got one of the 2 spring universals in question. I should check to see if there's a counterbore in the chamber to account for the front edges of the bolt. If it's there, that could be the reason for the precise buldges.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:59:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
That's way to uniform to be an out of battery firing. I'd expect it to pop before being that precise. Looks to me like it was fired in a rifle chambered for a belted cartridge, and it fireformed to the belt. I have no idea what belted cartridge would have a base that small though as generally they are thick. Maybe it was fired in an old oddball British chambering...


I have a Spike's Tactical .22 conversion kit that has fired OOB and produced .22 LR cases exactly like that.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:01:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?


That's my best guess.

Or over-pressure with a slightly unsupported chamber.



I had a M1 carbine that did just that, case looked just like that but it ruptured on the top, felt like somebody slapped me on the forehead. I still have the case and the bolt group somewhere, if I find it I'll post a pic.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:16:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?


thats what im thinkiing
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:22:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xdoctor:
My M1 Carbines won't fire if they're out of battery even a fraction of a inch. The only other .30 Carbine gun I'm aware of is a Ruger revolver.



AMT & Marlin have both made .30 Carbines as well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:04:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Fired out of battery?


this
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:29:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 4:31:17 PM EDT by elcope]
In my .30 Carbine reloading experience, an M1 Carbine will not fire even if is a little bit long, in fact .30 carbine is the most length sensetive caliber I have ever dealt with. I highly doubt it was fired in an M1 Carbine. Looks like someone fired it out of a Nagant revolver.

ETA: Did not know about the Universals known for OOB issues.
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