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Posted: 9/13/2010 10:00:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 10:01:39 AM EDT by hdhogman]
Did a search, hope is not a dupe.
Workers took wage freeze, etc.
Figured this would be a hot topic for Harley\Union bashers.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100913/ap_on_bi_ge/us_harley_davidson_contract
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:01:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hdhogman:
Did a search, hope is not a dupe.
Workers took wage freeze wanted to keep their jobs, etc.
Figured this would be a hot topic for Harley\Union bashers.


fixed

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:04:20 AM EDT
Harley bares fault fot even allowing a union, this is a case of common sense meets self preservation. HD should move all union members to part time and hire scabs.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:07:04 AM EDT
did I read correctly, Harley took on the union and won. Good job for not caving to the union and doing what they can to stay in business.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:12:48 AM EDT
Union president Mike Masik said the close vote reveals how grudgingly his workers approved the deal.

"It shows people are really getting sick of being threatened," said Masik, the president of the Local 2-209 chapter of the United Steel Workers.

The contract included a one-time lump-sum payment of $12,000, an artifact from a previous grievance settlement. The money goes to all active employees and to laid-off workers who were eligible to be called back.

A number of those laid-off workers voted yes, saying the money was a big factor.

"I was laid off, I had no chance of being called back so yeah, I wanted the $12,000," said Greg Kuehn, a 49-year-old machinist who has since found work at a printing company.


I bet GA would be glad to have that plant here and in an open shop environment.

The new Hyundai/Kia plant in West Point is doing quite well from what I gether.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:13:44 AM EDT
Good for the union workers at HD

Smart decision.

Other unions should take notice.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:18:10 AM EDT
What kind of self respecting union member can look in the mirror knowing they kissed the ring of "the man?" "The company" tried to fuck them and they just let it happen.

Personally, I think it's funnier when they're out of a job and they get to sit around the union hall stroking each other for not capitulating to the demands of "the company."
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:37:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:46:34 PM EDT by hdhogman]
Must be slow day here, probably won't even need Popcorn.
I have ridden H-D for over 30 years, not nearly as 'Pro-Union' as in my younger days.
Also think it was stupid to drop the Buell line completely, thought the newest one with Aprilla motor was selling well.
Greed on both sides.
I have been pissed at H-D for a long time, swear, after each new one, never again.
I mean it, this time!
Granted, a Street Glide is not a performance ride, however, tired of spending 10K on go fast goodies.
(I like hot-rdding)
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:50:40 AM EDT
I think I recently saw some threads on here about HD doing poorly....

I've treated patients from several union jobs (former workers at Caterpillar in York, Mack in Allentown, HD in York, etc.)....and some management...

The average guy (union line worker) says "the company's doing OK, and we're keeping busy"...

The non-union (Part time, lower management, temp hire, etc) guy says "I'm afraid I won't be working next week"

The management guys say "we're losing money" when they talk frankly about it...

And the Union Shop Steward says "The company's making lots of money and trying to screw us"


Amazing the different views from the same company....

AFARR
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:04:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hdhogman:
Must be slow day here, probably won't even need Popcorn.
I have ridden H-D for over 30 years, not nearrly as 'Pro-Union' as in my younger days.
Also think it was stupid to drop the Buell line completely, thought the newest one with Aprilla motor was selling well.
Greed on both sides.
I have been pissed at H-D for a long time, swear, after each new one, never again.
I mean it, this time!
Granted, a Street Glide is not a performance ride, however, tired of spending 10K on go fast goodies.
(I like hot-rdding)

Nothing wrong with that. You have to like what you like.

I won't own an H-D because of their marketing. The same goes for many others people who won't buy H-D. I see H-D as a company that has so much untapped potential that will continue to be mismanaged.

H-D's competitors show that they want our money more than H-D who only shows interest in a very limited segment of the motorcycle market. They are suffering for it while their competitors are getting by fine.

I really wish H-D had some fresh management. Someone with more initiative, like an Erik Buell type.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:13:29 PM EDT
It's no small wonder why we have all the problems that we do in this country. Just read some of the comments to the article.

Almost half of the respondents make some snarky comment about CEO pay like it has something to do with employee pay. I can't even imagine what kind of fantasy land you would have to live in to think that the pie is fixed and that you getting higher pay depends on someone else getting less. It's no wonder some people can't get ahead when they don't even understand the basic dynamics of how one gets ahead.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:39:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 1:41:38 PM EDT by JAD]
The problem with HD is their business model. As a company, they believe that their customers need them, more than they need their customers. A few years ago, when they had people lined up around the corner to by their bikes, they could do well without worrying about how to hook potential buyers and keep them from going with another brand. They need to overhaul their pricing, marketing, financing, and CS culture if they want to thrive. Being an icon does not pay the bills, especially when potential customers don't have extra money and patience to throw around.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:17:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shootist_Jeff:

Originally Posted By hdhogman:
Must be slow day here, probably won't even need Popcorn.
I have ridden H-D for over 30 years, not nearrly as 'Pro-Union' as in my younger days.
Also think it was stupid to drop the Buell line completely, thought the newest one with Aprilla motor was selling well.
Greed on both sides.
I have been pissed at H-D for a long time, swear, after each new one, never again.
I mean it, this time!
Granted, a Street Glide is not a performance ride, however, tired of spending 10K on go fast goodies.
(I like hot-rdding)

Nothing wrong with that. You have to like what you like.

I won't own an H-D because of their marketing. The same goes for many others people who won't buy H-D. I see H-D as a company that has so much untapped potential that will continue to be mismanaged.

H-D's competitors show that they want our money more than H-D who only shows interest in a very limited segment of the motorcycle market. They are suffering for it while their competitors are getting by fine.

I really wish H-D had some fresh management. Someone with more initiative, like an Erik Buell type.


Yeah, Harley really needs a 600CC sportbike, since the five that are out there are essentially identical already (if you include the 675 CC Triumph)

Or, perhaps a Dual Sport, since there are only 7 or so major manufacturers of those, with more experience and full product lines.

Should they go Open Class? This makes a little more sense, if you really want an American motorcycle that weighs 368 pounds dry and makes 173 HP. There are six manufacturers that already make one that 50 million in development dollars wouldn't even touch.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:32:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 2:36:28 PM EDT by Shootist_Jeff]

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
Originally Posted By Shootist_Jeff:

Originally Posted By hdhogman:
Must be slow day here, probably won't even need Popcorn.
I have ridden H-D for over 30 years, not nearrly as 'Pro-Union' as in my younger days.
Also think it was stupid to drop the Buell line completely, thought the newest one with Aprilla motor was selling well.
Greed on both sides.
I have been pissed at H-D for a long time, swear, after each new one, never again.
I mean it, this time!
Granted, a Street Glide is not a performance ride, however, tired of spending 10K on go fast goodies.
(I like hot-rdding)

Nothing wrong with that. You have to like what you like.

I won't own an H-D because of their marketing. The same goes for many others people who won't buy H-D. I see H-D as a company that has so much untapped potential that will continue to be mismanaged.

H-D's competitors show that they want our money more than H-D who only shows interest in a very limited segment of the motorcycle market. They are suffering for it while their competitors are getting by fine.

I really wish H-D had some fresh management. Someone with more initiative, like an Erik Buell type.


Yeah, Harley really needs a 600CC sportbike, since the five that are out there are essentially identical already (if you include the 675 CC Triumph)

Or, perhaps a Dual Sport, since there are only 7 or so major manufacturers of those, with more experience and full product lines.

Should they go Open Class? This makes a little more sense, if you really want an American motorcycle that weighs 368 pounds dry and makes 173 HP. There are six manufacturers that already make one that 50 million in development dollars wouldn't even touch.


Or they could come out with some more original products. Innovation is what I was referring to. Buell's innovation was relegated to sport and sport-standard bikes. What he did for those bikes I(and likely many others) would love to see done in a cruiser format.

And yes, I would like to see H-D or Polaris get into the motocross market or maybe even get back onto the tracks. I'd like to see America get back into its motorcycle racing roots.

We've let foreign companies dominate the motorcycle industry/sports for too long.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:14:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By woodsie:
Almost half of the respondents make some snarky comment about CEO pay like it has something to do with employee pay.

Hey!

That guy can put washer (B) onto bolt (A), place bolt (A) into hole (C), place washer (D) and Nut (E) onto bolt (A) threads, and tighten it, 150 times a day.

He deserves CEO pay.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:11:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bytor94:

Originally Posted By woodsie:
Almost half of the respondents make some snarky comment about CEO pay like it has something to do with employee pay.

Hey!

That guy can put washer (B) onto bolt (A), place bolt (A) into hole (C), place washer (D) and Nut (E) onto bolt (A) threads, and tighten it, 150 times a day.

He deserves CEO pay.


Right. The CEO can totally own the atmosphere he walks in, and comes up with products that 70 percent of ARFCOM seems contemptuous of because of their marketing, performance, lack of originality, etc...

He gets 5.6 million. Of course, for 3.2 million, there's no way they could get someone that good! He's a superstar, a superman!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:20:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shootist_Jeff:

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
Originally Posted By Shootist_Jeff:

Originally Posted By hdhogman:
Must be slow day here, probably won't even need Popcorn.
I have ridden H-D for over 30 years, not nearrly as 'Pro-Union' as in my younger days.
Also think it was stupid to drop the Buell line completely, thought the newest one with Aprilla motor was selling well.
Greed on both sides.
I have been pissed at H-D for a long time, swear, after each new one, never again.
I mean it, this time!
Granted, a Street Glide is not a performance ride, however, tired of spending 10K on go fast goodies.
(I like hot-rdding)

Nothing wrong with that. You have to like what you like.

I won't own an H-D because of their marketing. The same goes for many others people who won't buy H-D. I see H-D as a company that has so much untapped potential that will continue to be mismanaged.

H-D's competitors show that they want our money more than H-D who only shows interest in a very limited segment of the motorcycle market. They are suffering for it while their competitors are getting by fine.

I really wish H-D had some fresh management. Someone with more initiative, like an Erik Buell type.


Yeah, Harley really needs a 600CC sportbike, since the five that are out there are essentially identical already (if you include the 675 CC Triumph)

Or, perhaps a Dual Sport, since there are only 7 or so major manufacturers of those, with more experience and full product lines.

Should they go Open Class? This makes a little more sense, if you really want an American motorcycle that weighs 368 pounds dry and makes 173 HP. There are six manufacturers that already make one that 50 million in development dollars wouldn't even touch.


Or they could come out with some more original products. Innovation is what I was referring to. Buell's innovation was relegated to sport and sport-standard bikes. What he did for those bikes I(and likely many others) would love to see done in a cruiser format.

And yes, I would like to see H-D or Polaris get into the motocross market or maybe even get back onto the tracks. I'd like to see America get back into its motorcycle racing roots.

We've let foreign companies dominate the motorcycle industry/sports for too long.


Well, what do you consider to be dominance?

HP to weight? Forget it, not worth building bikes that convince 24 y/o Sport Rider readers that the 1 y/o GSXR-1000 is old and slow.

Peak HP? The ZX-14 makes 203. Would a bike that made 220 be better?

Racetrack handling? Forget it for reasons already mentioned. HD is not going to catch Honda, Ducate, et al. Nor should they try.

HD is focusing on handling dynamics, quality, styling, rideability. It is for these reasons that, after an extensive test ride of a Dyna family big twin, I plan on buying one either this year or next. Their bikes have also not increased in price significantly over the last 10 years, especially when you consider that the days of demand outracing supply are over. I think they're doing OK and I've seen and ridden much of the best Japan can offer over the last 15 years.
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