Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/13/2010 7:15:12 AM EDT
Ok so I try hard not to be a tinfoiler, but the following happened Sat. at a gunshow to me:

I see a guy cruising with a UZI Mod. A rec. and no grip housing, no bolt.

I causually ask "how much" since I like projects. It was rough.

Some low key comments, and a quick price, and thats about it. We meet up a few aisles over, and start talking again.

I ask to see the gun, it now has a bolt, and a grip housing, and a 16" bbl. Still griphousing is not on gun...

I look inside and the blocking bar is gone!

I dont know a lot about UZI's so I call a close friend and ask...apparently this is a major no-no and I un-assed quick.

I see this dude cruising with people coming/going around him and he is just standing around trying to sell this thing.

I felt weird, and super glad that Im smart enough to ask a few q's and check stuff out. Still was close, I almost bought it for a fun little fixer-upper.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:15:42 AM EDT
CSB?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:25:11 AM EDT
The fact that parts were appearing and disappearing sure doesn't sound good.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:30:54 AM EDT



yeah, the ATF allows quite a few "upgrades" to semi-auto guns - you can bring them just about to SMG spec and still be legal.

the one that cannot be changed or removed is the blocking bar.


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:33:13 AM EDT
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:35:24 AM EDT
I wish I had a magical gun that would assemble/disassemble itself and add on parts and remove others. It would be like Christmas everytime I open up the case!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:37:09 AM EDT
You should have run a dog by the guy with the uzi to see how he reacted.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:37:58 AM EDT
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:41:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:42:51 AM EDT by 5robert25]
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


The case would likely not stick.

Of course half the shit ATF does sounds like entrapment to me
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:42:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


If you bite the hook, it doesn't matter.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:42:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 8:10:40 AM EDT by AR-10Operator]
Originally Posted By hkx3:
Ok so I try hard not to be a tinfoiler, but the following happened Sat. at a gunshow to me:

I see a guy cruising with a UZI Mod. A rec. and no grip housing, no bolt.

I causually ask "how much" since I like projects. It was rough.

Some low key comments, and a quick price, and thats about it. We meet up a few aisles over, and start talking again.

I ask to see the gun, it now has a bolt, and a grip housing, and a 16" bbl. Still griphousing is not on gun...

I look inside and the blocking bar is gone!

I dont know a lot about UZI's so I call a close friend and ask...apparently this is a major no-no and I un-assed quick.

I see this dude cruising with people coming/going around him and he is just standing around trying to sell this thing.

I felt weird, and super glad that Im smart enough to ask a few q's and check stuff out. Still was close, I almost bought it for a fun little fixer-upper.


Were you at the Medina funshow ? I only asked because i was there with a friend. My friend was telling me about a guy that had the same uzi parts you mention above. My friend wanted to buy them until he noticed the blocking bar wasn't present, so he mentioned it to the gentleman and the guy said mind your own business.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:44:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


The case would likely not stick.

Of course half the shit ATF does sounds like entrapment to me


sure but what did it cost you to defend yourself ?

your right and BROKE after this plus most people that know you and are not family now see you as the guy that ATF had a hardon for.. and to most people a .gov agency is good.. therfore you are bad..

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:46:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


Regardless, it would probably cost you thousands of dollars to defend yourself at trial. after all, all gun buyers are experts, and you should know the difference when you buy it, regardless of what the seller says.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:48:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


No. If you don't know, too bad. not being flippant

If that little voice in the back of your head is saying "Huh?" , you're right to listen.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:49:56 AM EDT
Ok, I'll bite. What is a blocking bar?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:52:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Predator458:
Ok, I'll bite. What is a blocking bar?

My point exactly. I have no fucking clue. I could most likely pick something out of the ordinary on an AR. Other than that, I would be screwed.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:54:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 7:55:31 AM EDT by jsnappa]
Originally Posted By cluster:
Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


The case would likely not stick.

Of course half the shit ATF does sounds like entrapment to me


sure but what did it cost you to defend yourself ?

your right and BROKE after this plus most people that know you and are not family now see you as the guy that ATF had a hardon for.. and to most people Dave_A a .gov agency is good.. therfore you are bad..



Couldn't resist.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:58:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Originally Posted By Predator458:
Ok, I'll bite. What is a blocking bar?

My point exactly. I have no fucking clue. I could most likely pick something out of the ordinary on an AR. Other than that, I would be screwed.


Probably something that prevents the gun from going full-auto.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:58:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Ok pardon my ignorance here. In the scenario that you described. Does ignorance of "design" trump law? What I'm getting at is if someone tried to set my up by trying to sell me a full auto but was saying it was semi-auto, I wouldn't know the difference. I know the ignorance of the law thing, but what about ignorance of design?


If you bite the hook, it doesn't matter.


Not exactly true.There is a lot of case law that says ignorance of the law is not a defense, but lack of knowledge of the illict nature of the contraband is. This would be like buying a bottle of baby powder that some drug mule stashed at the local grocery store, which you picked up by mistake. Sure you had cocain in your possession, but you had no reason to believe it was cocain.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:00:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:02:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Predator458:
Ok, I'll bite. What is a blocking bar?




It prevents a machinegun bolt from being installed

Explanation at the top of this page

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:02:45 AM EDT
The bocking bar is a piece welded into the receiver of semi - auto Uzis. Prevents installation of a full auto bolt into the gun.

If you find a picture of a real standard full auto Uzi bolt you will note that it is solid on the sides. The semi auto bolts ( and registered conversion bolts ) will have a groove milled in the side to clear the blocking bar.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:02:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:05:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DStrokes:

Originally Posted By hoodonit00:
Originally Posted By Predator458:
Ok, I'll bite. What is a blocking bar?

My point exactly. I have no fucking clue. I could most likely pick something out of the ordinary on an AR. Other than that, I would be screwed.


Probably something that prevents the gun from going full-auto.


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:06:33 AM EDT
So where did he pick up a bolt and barrel for it???
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:23:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dedfella:
You should have run a dog by the guy with the uzi to see how he reacted.




Had to think a minute . . .
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:26:47 AM EDT
Years ago I recall hearing a rumor at a show that the ATF was there, and had a guy trying to sell a rifle in the parking lot. I recall seeing a guy in the lot trying to sell a rifle, but didn't think much of it. Don't know if the guy was really ATF or not. I figured the guy was cheap and didn't want to pay the $5 to get in the show. However, after that show I always paid attention to anything that didn't look right or could've been illegal. Back in the early 90's I talked a friend out of buying an AK from a guy walking around the show. It had a milled spot on the side, where you'd find a serial number on other Norinco AK clones, and no other form of identification number.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:54:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'll say this from a few decades of experience having seen stupid people do stupid things. If someone has something that looks illegal it's 99.99% likely they are a dumbass/criminal and not part of some kind of police sting.


yep and 99.99% of the general public has no clue what a blocking bar is.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:05:35 AM EDT
Learn something new everyday on this site. I have no clue on Uzis, now I know what to look for though, I'll likely never buy one.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:07:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Originally Posted By dedfella:
You should have run a dog by the guy with the uzi to see how he reacted.




Had to think a minute . . .


Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:17:17 AM EDT
Should have pulled a henry bowman on him
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:21:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'll say this from a few decades of experience having seen stupid people do stupid things. If someone has something that looks illegal it's 99.99% likely they are a dumbass/criminal and not part of some kind of police sting.


yep and 99.99% of the general public has no clue what a blocking bar is.


I bet even Israeli Jews who served in IDF have no clue either in some cases ...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:25:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:29:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By damcv62:
So where did he pick up a bolt and barrel for it???

at the armory.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:34:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'll say this from a few decades of experience having seen stupid people do stupid things. If someone has something that looks illegal it's 99.99% likely they are a dumbass/criminal and not part of some kind of police sting.


yep and 99.99% of the general public has no clue what a blocking bar is.
I don't.


I see I'm in most excellent company then.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:13:50 AM EDT
Well I guess Im the type that looks at stuff like this, since I trade a lot, and always am looking for a deal or a deal on a project.

I also own a registered UZI, so any time I can find a cheap stablemate, so be it.

Whether he was, or not, Ill never know.

Like others have said, "it just didnt feel right"

Guy mentioned UZI talk, then as I concluded the conversation, said "You dont realize, for $200 you can go ahead and register this one..."

Uh Huh
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:20:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 10:21:02 AM EDT by Ragin_Cajun]
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'll say this from a few decades of experience having seen stupid people do stupid things. If someone has something that looks illegal it's 99.99% likely they are a dumbass/criminal and not part of some kind of police sting.


yep and 99.99% of the general public has no clue what a blocking bar is.
I don't.



Anything other than an AR, S&W revolver, Glock, or a common US military small arm, you could drop a bunch of parts from a Singer sewing machine into it and I probably wouldn't be able to tell anything was wrong.
Top Top