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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:34:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Ive done the two-way range...............
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:34:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? It will depend, I have seen on various websites (and in person) what appears to tactical hand holding while other classes have shown me the true merit of training with professionals. Mindset, skills in weapon manipulation, combatives, good humor ... the list goes on and on. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:35:42 PM EDT
[#3]
I've taken a couple in the past five years. A couple from MDTS, and a couple from tactical response.
Quoted: If you haven't had any formal training (basic doesn't count...that almost makes me giggle), then you don't know what you don't know. This. It's amazing how many people don't realize this. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:35:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. hmmm seems like that might be a wast of money for anyone who's owned a carbine for more than a year... I shall pass. kthnxbye  |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:36:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. hmmm seems like that might be a wast of money for anyone who's owned a carbine for more than a year... I shall pass. kthnxbye Trolling? Can't tell  Not trolling? I see you're in CA ...  |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:39:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. hmmm seems like that might be a wast of money for anyone who's owned a carbine for more than a year... I shall pass. kthnxbye Trolling? Can't tell Not trolling? I see you're in CA ... not trolling, even though in CA I know classes will be dependent on the instructor, but basics are basics, and if you don't know your weapon within a year... well, good luck. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:42:49 PM EDT
[#7]
I'd like to, but I don't have time. That, and I'm hording money right now.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:45:05 PM EDT
[#8]
I took my first class last year and will take another before this year is done.
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:46:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. hmmm seems like that might be a wast of money for anyone who's owned a carbine for more than a year... I shall pass. kthnxbye Trolling? Can't tell Not trolling? I see you're in CA ... not trolling, even though in CA I know classes will be dependent on the instructor, but basics are basics, and if you don't know your weapon within a year... well, good luck. Some people have to be told everything. Like you, for instance. Guy above you was trolling ... and unfortunately you weren't. There may be a little bit more to a rifle course than you can comprehend. Guy above said it best, you don't know what you don't know. PS. How are those 30 round magazines working out for you? |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 9:54:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. hmmm seems like that might be a wast of money for anyone who's owned a carbine for more than a year... I shall pass. kthnxbye Trolling? Can't tell Not trolling? I see you're in CA ... not trolling, even though in CA I know classes will be dependent on the instructor, but basics are basics, and if you don't know your weapon within a year... well, good luck. Some people have to be told everything. Like you, for instance. Guy above you was trolling ... and unfortunately you weren't. There may be a little bit more to a rifle course than you can comprehend. Guy above said it best, you don't know what you don't know. PS. How are those 30 round magazines working out for you?  did you just say I have to be told everything? holy smokes! you have no idea how crazy smart I am.... My 30 rounders work fine for being over 10 years old. It's nice that I can rebuild them with new parts when they need it. - I'm out... don't want to distract from the real conversation. 
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:04:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: based on the following question, I will admit "no". what is taught in a "carbine" class? It will depend, I have seen on various websites (and in person) what appears to tactical hand holding while other classes have shown me the true merit of training with professionals. Mindset, skills in weapon manipulation, combatives, good humor ... the list goes on and on. Bingo! Not to mention some great people to shoot with if you have the right class. For me the most rewarding was a legal course detailing the varying instances of using deadly force, when to use it, when not to use it and exactly what to do if you do. It was inspiring to actually hear from someone that has defended oneself as a civilian that resulted in a dead perp and the entire process that followed afterwards including the legal breakdown. It eradicated a fear that loomed in my mind about if I would be a criminal for defending myself, my home and my loved ones. I have yet to take a handgun course, when I have the money and time I will be attending Frontsights CCW class and perhaps tactical shotgun if I can. I know that place is not really liked here for various reasons, but when I was there, the staff, the facility and the students were all top notch. %110 professional and courteous. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:13:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
based on the following question, I will admit "no".
what is taught in a "carbine" class? It will depend, I have seen on various websites (and in person) what appears to tactical hand holding while other classes have shown me the true merit of training with professionals. Mindset, skills in weapon manipulation, combatives, good humor ... the list goes on and on. Bingo! Not to mention some great people to shoot with if you have the right class. For me the most rewarding was a legal course detailing the varying instances of using deadly force, when to use it, when not to use it and exactly what to do if you do. It was inspiring to actually hear from someone that has defended oneself as a civilian that resulted in a dead perp and the entire process that followed afterwards including the legal breakdown. It eradicated a fear that loomed in my mind about if I would be a criminal for defending myself, my home and my loved ones. I have yet to take a handgun course, when I have the money and time I will be attending Frontsights CCW class and perhaps tactical shotgun if I can. I know that place is not really liked here for various reasons, but when I was there, the staff, the facility and the students were all top notch. %110 professional and courteous. Been there done that frontsight thing and would not recommend it |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:27:25 PM EDT
[#13]
I've never been to a 'for profit' public class, but I've been to a ton of military and LE schools covering most small arms. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:33:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. Cute. If one cannot afford to take a class yet, then the MagPul videos are a good substitute until you can scrape some funds together (although anyone who owns more than two rifle setups and has yet to drop the coin on a good 4 day class has their priorities way out of whack). However, no video equals a quality instructor standing over your shoulder and correctly the minor/major flaws in your technique that you've turned into muscle memory over the years without realizing it. To claim otherwise speaks volumes about ones own lack of knowledge and skillset. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:37:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think I'm okay. You're wrong. Not really. My "carbine courses" ended up with bad guys getting dead. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:40:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. Cute. If one cannot afford to take a class yet, then the MagPul videos are a good substitute until you can scrape some funds together (although anyone who owns more than two rifle setups and has yet to drop the coin on a good 4 day class has their priorities way out of whack). However, no video equals a quality instructor standing over your shoulder and correctly the minor/major flaws in your technique that you've turned into muscle memory over the years without realizing it. To claim otherwise speaks volumes about ones own lack of knowledge and skillset. I never said the videos replace anything. I said watch them to give you a idea of what your getting yourself into far as the things you will be taught by them. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:42:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think I'm okay. You're wrong. Not really. My "carbine courses" ended up with bad guys getting dead. Because "good enough" is what we should all strive for |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:45:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How to load your carbine,sight it in,clear some jams, correct zero,how to put your sling on right, shoot from positions other then standing and from a bench. High speed shit lol. Watch a magpul video if you want to see what a class is like before you take one. Cute. If one cannot afford to take a class yet, then the MagPul videos are a good substitute until you can scrape some funds together (although anyone who owns more than two rifle setups and has yet to drop the coin on a good 4 day class has their priorities way out of whack). However, no video equals a quality instructor standing over your shoulder and correctly the minor/major flaws in your technique that you've turned into muscle memory over the years without realizing it. To claim otherwise speaks volumes about ones own lack of knowledge and skillset. 
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:49:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I never said the videos replace anything. I said watch them to give you a idea of what your getting yourself into far as the things you will be taught by them. Your negative tone ("high speed shit...lol") seemed to imply that classes would be a waste of time because it wasn't "high speed". If I misunderstood, then you have my apologies. The core of what I posted, not directed at you personally, stands on it's own merit, however. A "master" is merely someone who has mastered the fundamentals. The way I look at the various classes I've been to is that even if I walk away with "only" a new/improved technique that is sound and shaves a second (or less, even) off of my reload time, target re-acquisition time, etc. then it was money well spent. That aside, there are other schools out there that are well worth the coin besides the dedicated "gun stuff". Integrated combatives, urban E&E, force on force, medical, etc. all administered by a qualified professional will go a long ways towards rounding out ones skillset. |
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Posted: 9/12/2010 11:00:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I never said the videos replace anything. I said watch them to give you a idea of what your getting yourself into far as the things you will be taught by them. Your negative tone ("high speed shit...lol") seemed to imply that classes would be a waste of time because it wasn't "high speed". If I misunderstood, then you have my apologies. The core of what I posted, not directed at you personally, stands on it's own merit, however. A "master" is merely someone who has mastered the fundamentals. The way I look at the various classes I've been to is that even if I walk away with "only" a new/improved technique that is sound and shaves a second (or less, even) off of my reload time, target re-acquisition time, etc. then it was money well spent. That aside, there are other schools out there that are well worth the coin besides the dedicated "gun stuff". Integrated combatives, urban E&E, force on force, medical, etc. all administered by a qualified professional will go a long ways towards rounding out ones skillset. I couldnt agree more with the part in the red. Your weapon is no doubt a very very important skill you should know but there is so much more to learn. I dont know anyone that didnt find force on force to be a major eye opener the first time they did it. I never understood the guys that spend all this money on gear and classes but couldnt run any distance or say pull themselves through a window. Your physical condition is a important thing everyone seems to overlook. People would be wise to branch out and not just get hung up on doing double taps at 25 yards. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:00:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Carbine Course=Spend a lot of money to try and make your penis bigger.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:02:27 AM EDT
[#22]
I've signed up for Defensive Concepts Basic Carbine in Nov. and plan on taking their Defensive Carbine in the spring
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:13:43 AM EDT
[#23]
I'd like to, but it would be for fun. Right now I will focus on handgun and concealed carry courses, as those are easier to justify.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:14:29 AM EDT
[#24]
I would pay to see some of the guys who are trashing classes get put into something like a Malfunction Junction drill. Bet there woudl be alot of humbled MF'rs
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:18:49 AM EDT
[#25]
I have not taken one, nor do I plan to at this point. I am not mil or leo. I feel my money is better spent on handgun classes, because I CC. the chances of my life being dependent on me being able to run my AR are slim to none. not saying it cant/wont happen, but the reality of it is if I need a rifle to save my life some real bad shit has happened and I am defending my home and family.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:27:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Got lots of benefit from the courses I've taken. Taking a class is the beginning, not the end, though. Always keep learning, practice what you've been taught and synthesize what works best for you.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:37:37 AM EDT
[#27]
I have taken two different handgun classes, but my next stage of training I am definitely saving for is a carbine course.
After a defensive handgun course, I learned more all day with 500 rounds with instruction, than I did all year of shooting at the range without instruction. It is definitely a smart investment and also a great chance to meet some like minded individuals. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:39:14 AM EDT
[#28]
I was infantry in Berlin we wrote CIC (Combat In City) which was later changed to MOUT, and I think something else. I would probably learn something, you always learn something, but I can't see how I would learn something valuable that I didn't already know. I can put as many rounds as I have on target while moving, I can change magazines on the move, I can clear a malfunction while moving and finding cover. I practice all these, but unless SHTF I will likely never use it, so I don't think I would ever take a class.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:39:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Eventually, but a handgun course will come first...
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:44:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I was just wondering if anyone here feels they are competent without taking one. It doesn't really matter how someone "feels" about it.
If you have not had professional training, you are not "competent". |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:46:31 AM EDT
[#31]
I've taken two carbine classes; also pistol classes.
The training I need to attend is some kind of FoF class and shotgun. I am woefully under prepared shotgun wise. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:47:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Take the class.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:49:25 AM EDT
[#33]
several carbine and several pistol classes. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:03:50 AM EDT
[#34]
Yes.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:05:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pay money to attend class by and for armchair qb's. No thanks. Spend the money on ammo. Sense, your not making any............... I concur with Forrest. The training I have received has been far more valuable than all of the ammo I shot prior. Training makes practice more valuable by providing purpose and direction. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:06:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Mas Ayoob's last LFI III. 5 days of carbine. I thought I knew everything but learned a few really good things.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:14:54 AM EDT
[#37]
I'll read the thread later, but have this to say:
You don't know what you don't know, until you start training. Be it handgun or carbine. I've taken 4 carbine classes over the last 3 years. I thought because I read a lot and surf the Web and stuff, that I knew how to shoot. Yeah, I can pull a trigger just fine, but start moving and shooting and putting yourself under pressure, and you learn a lot about your carbine, your gear - and yourself. And don't whine because the weather might suck - you might not be using these skills in the perfect 75 degree sunshine, sunshine. I took Carbine I with MDFI as a refresher in 38 degree sleety goodness. Key learning: Cold hands are dumb hands.
I took Carbine II with MDFI 2 weeks ago Sunday in 95+ degree blistering heat. Key learning: hydrate. I drank 2 gallons of water plus a quart, and I still bonked. While I would have removed myself from the drills (running, dropping into positions, etc) if I'd been a danger to anyone, I was still able to finish them all. That was a physical test, and while I shot OK and all, it's encouraged me to get into far better shape than I am now. I have been trying to maintain a two-per-year schedule of training to keep myself familiar with training... I'd love to take at least a class per month but that's just not going to happen given the way things work out. To sum, I've learned a TON from these classes, I've learned (and continue to learn) what works for me and what doesn't, and I readily acknowledge that I am a sponge for this kind of instruction. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:36:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pay money to attend class by and for armchair qb's. No thanks. Spend the money on ammo. Sense, your not making any............... I concur with Forrest. The training I have received has been far more valuable than all of the ammo I shot prior. Training makes practice more valuable by providing purpose and direction. What training does do is build familiarity with one's weapons and build muscle memory. In stress fine motor skills go away so one needs have as much experience under stress as possible. On the other hand, most of these courses are no more than a bunch of guys comparing how big theirs dicks are. Unless you are on a tactical team you are not going to be clearing houses, doing multiple mag changes, rolling around in the dirt etc. And yes, I have been through many classes in my 34 year LE career. Would I pay for one out of my own money as a civilian? Not likely. |
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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:45:13 AM EDT
[#39]
I'm a poor college student, but whenever I manage to pile up enough cash to be able to justify the expense, I will.
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Posted: 9/13/2010 7:09:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think I'm okay. You're wrong. Not really. My "carbine courses" ended up with bad guys getting dead. Because "good enough" is what we should all strive for
I've shot with M_S. He wouldn't bet money against me and I don't think I'm good enough. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:07:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pay money to attend class by and for armchair qb's. No thanks. Spend the money on ammo. Sense, your not making any............... I concur with Forrest. The training I have received has been far more valuable than all of the ammo I shot prior. Training makes practice more valuable by providing purpose and direction. What training does do is build familiarity with one's weapons and build muscle memory. In stress fine motor skills go away so one needs have as much experience under stress as possible. Very true. Training also teaches you to do it the right way (hopefully) and to do it safely. Some people only learn the right way after they learn it the hard way when they try on their own. Now, there are various "right ways" to do things, depending on the firearm, the user, and the task at hand. A gamer, a Marine in Afghanistan, and a law enforcement officer are probably using different guns for different things. Each would use similar fundamentals, but intermediate and advanced training would diverge. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:10:10 PM EDT
[#42]
I am taking my fifth carbine class in November.
That's right bitches. They're addictive, informative, and in my opinion, necessary. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:11:07 PM EDT
[#43]
I took a local one day carbine class. But I'd love to do a full blown Pat Rogers type class.
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:12:15 PM EDT
[#44]
I'd love to but there's not very many around here and I don't have the cash to outlay all at once while both the wife and I are in school.
Some day.  |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:14:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
seems like that might be a wast of money for anyone who's owned a carbine for more than a year... I shall pass. kthnxbye
Not sure if serious... I've seen plenty of guys who can't hit a static clay at 50 yards because they don't know how to zero their rifle. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:21:43 PM EDT
[#46]
I play call of duty and halo... what else is there to know?
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:24:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I've signed up for Defensive Concepts Basic Carbine in Nov. and plan on taking their Defensive Carbine in the spring You won't regret it, that's a great course. I took it in July and am planning on attending their low-light class in February. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:47:49 PM EDT
[#48]
I took my first class 2 months after purchasing my first AR-15, so I did not feel so bad for sucking....
I would like to take level 2 and another and another etc... |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:49:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I am taking my fifth carbine class in November. That's right bitches. They're addictive, informative, and in my opinion, necessary. Can only agree.
You know you have it bad when you're scheming on how you can afford to get more training in... Up to and including selling guns to do it... That's right, kids. Selling a gun to pay for training. It's that necessary. |
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:54:15 PM EDT
[#50]
I want to take one, but travel costs are a big obstacle for me.
Not much available around here, at least for carbine/rifle. |
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