Navy pen flares...pic added - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Navy pen flares...pic added (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 9/11/2010 8:26:51 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

250-650ft burn for at least 4.5 seconds.

If they are fired at least 55 degrees from horizontal, they shouldn't be burning when they hit the ground.

Where did you get them from. IIRC, the few companies that made them never released them on the civilian market, especially with .mil lot numbers...

Freerider beat me by a long shot. Very few of these are for sale to the public and you won't find reloads. I'm sure you paid a pretty penny or someone stole that and sold it, so on, so forth. Anyway, once you use up the flares, Form 1 the launcher into an AOW.

ETA: last 1348 I looked at ( a while ago) MK79 kits were going for about 28-32 bucks depending on company.

What are they going for on the open market?

Posted: 9/11/2010 8:33:53 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They go relatively far. There are idiots that used to shoot them off at a flat trajectory.

We used them to shoot right at motherfucker's windshields as part of our escalation of force.

I hit a dude on a motorcycle in the chest at 200 feet from the top-rear hatch of a moving MRAP. He pulled over.

My little brother said they've been used on occasion at the copper mine. Apparently, the best way to get a haul truck driver's attention is to bounce fire off his windshield.

Posted: 9/11/2010 9:12:36 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

250-650ft burn for at least 4.5 seconds.

If they are fired at least 55 degrees from horizontal, they shouldn't be burning when they hit the ground.

Where did you get them from. IIRC, the few companies that made them never released them on the civilian market, especially with .mil lot numbers...

Freerider beat me by a long shot. Very few of these are for sale to the public and you won't find reloads. I'm sure you paid a pretty penny or someone stole that and sold it, so on, so forth. Anyway, once you use up the flares, Form 1 the launcher into an AOW.

ETA: last 1348 I looked at ( a while ago) MK79 kits were going for about 28-32 bucks depending on company.

What are they going for on the open market?

Last I heard (if I recall correctly) they went for 40ish, maybe more. I'm not sure to be honest with you. They aren't exactly common but are very desireable.

Posted: 9/11/2010 9:13:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

How loud are they?

loud enought to require PPE. They'll make your ears ring.

Posted: 9/11/2010 9:26:19 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How loud are they?

loud enought to require PPE. They'll make your ears ring.

Thanks, I tried shooting my HK P2A1 without ears on.

That hurt like shit.

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:46:30 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

We used them to shoot right at motherfucker's windshields as part of our escalation of force.

I know they can break through a car's rear window and hit the driver in the back of the head.

Apparently they leave a nasty burn when you shoot them at someone 100ft away and one hits them in the hand....

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:54:37 AM EDT

[#7]

I'd like some.

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:56:26 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How high do they go and do they generally fall back to earth still on fire?

Last time I screwed with some flares I did not know much about, I set a brushpile on fire.

did that with a czech flare launcher!

I did it with a Paines-Wessex rocket parachute flare.

Shot it at the ground thinking it would dig in.

WRONG...damn thing slid towards the neighbors house and lodged in a brushpile.

My other neighbor who is also a pyro helped me put the fire out.

DUDE.... stop playing with fire. Go buy a water pistol or a helmet

Posted: 9/12/2010 7:36:27 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
250-650ft burn for at least 4.5 seconds.

If they are fired at least 55 degrees from horizontal, they shouldn't be burning when they hit the ground.

Where did you get them from. IIRC, the few companies that made them never released them on the civilian market, especially with .mil lot numbers...

Looks like the truflare version only goes to ~150ft. Are the flares different or is it the launcher also?

The launchers look to be very similar...

Posted: 9/12/2010 7:40:59 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They go relatively far. There are idiots that used to shoot them off at a flat trajectory.

We used them to shoot right at motherfucker's windshields as part of our escalation of force.

We were told over and over again in survival school refresher that they were forbidden by the Geneva Convention to be used as a weapon.

I don't know if it's BS or not, but that's what we were told.

Posted: 9/12/2010 7:42:10 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
250-650ft burn for at least 4.5 seconds.

If they are fired at least 55 degrees from horizontal, they shouldn't be burning when they hit the ground.

Where did you get them from. IIRC, the few companies that made them never released them on the civilian market, especially with .mil lot numbers...

Looks like the truflare version only goes to ~150ft. Are the flares different or is it the launcher also?

The launchers look to be very similar...

both are different.

Posted: 9/12/2010 10:09:57 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

DUDE.... stop playing with fire. Go buy a water pistol or a helmet

I have since revamped my practices to be more safe.

<––-been playing with fire since 4th grade...when I first got fireworks.

The older you get the more fun toys you can get.

Is that a subtle way of calling me a retard?

Posted: 9/12/2010 10:58:25 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Posted: 9/12/2010 11:13:32 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They go relatively far. There are idiots that used to shoot them off at a flat trajectory.

We used them to shoot right at motherfucker's windshields as part of our escalation of force.

We were told over and over again in survival school refresher that they were forbidden by the Geneva Convention to be used as a weapon.

I don't know if it's BS or not, but that's what we were told.

It wasn't a weapon, it was a warning to back off.

If they kept coming then we went to a weapon.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:19:10 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Dunno, might work.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:21:27 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Go ahead, call the companies. They're gonna tell you to FOAD though.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:28:29 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Go ahead, call the companies. They're gonna tell you to FOAD though.

Yep, got an email:

Sorry, we only sell to the DOD at this time.

Thank you for your interest.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:33:20 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Go ahead, call the companies. They're gonna tell you to FOAD though.

Yep, got an email:

Sorry, we only sell to the DOD at this time.

Thank you for your interest.

It's unfortunate, really. They would make a killing with the civvie market. Well, if they didn't try to rape them on the cost's. Depending on which DODIC we order depends on the price. I'll see if I can dig up some 1348's tomorrow and find the prices. Some of them are pretty spendy.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:34:27 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

We used them to shoot right at motherfucker's windshields as part of our escalation of force.

I know they can break through a car's rear window and hit the driver in the back of the head.

And how would we know this, pray-tell?

It wasn't me but I witnessed it go down. It was rather amusing. I've broken a windshield though.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:35:17 PM EDT

[#20]

I heard that the old threaded versions were being phased out for twist-ons...any truth to that?

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:39:18 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

I heard that the old threaded versions were being phased out for twist-ons...any truth to that?

I don't know anything about that. I know the Marines got rid of all their green flare kits due to Obselesense. Maybe they are switching over. Who knows.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:41:11 PM EDT

[#22]

Is this not considered a class 3 item. If someone has a book look it up.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:43:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Do NOT carry it around with a flare screwed all the way in place.

I'd tell the story about how the weather stripping in my hummer caught fire and I had to put it out with a rip it, but you would have to have been there.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:46:16 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Is this not considered a class 3 item. If someone has a book look it up.

common myth but totally untrue.

You can however Form 1, one of them into and AOW.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:49:44 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I heard that the old threaded versions were being phased out for twist-ons...any truth to that?

I don't know anything about that. I know the Marines got rid of all their green flare kits due to Obselesense. Maybe they are switching over. Who knows.

I am not in the military (someday, maybe), so this is all third hand knowledge/rumors.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:50:59 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Is this not considered a class 3 item. If someone has a book look it up.

Nope...not unless you modify it to take any sort of anti-personnel ammo.

Which includes any kind of ammunition.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:55:37 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is this not considered a class 3 item. If someone has a book look it up.

common myth but totally untrue.

Thanks for the reply. I had been shown a similar flare pen and the picture in the BATF info. I am not familiar with the items must have been something else. The item I saw was from the Air Force.

Posted: 9/12/2010 2:06:51 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is this not considered a class 3 item. If someone has a book look it up.

common myth but totally untrue.

Thanks for the reply. I had been shown a similar flare pen and the picture in the BATF info. I am not familiar with the items must have been something else. The item I saw was from the Air Force.

What you saw probably was a LAUNCHER. These can be made into firearms. You just have to make a threaded attachment that acts as a barrel instead of it just being a threaded flare. Just like a zip gun.

Posted: 9/12/2010 2:10:57 PM EDT

[#29]

I've got one with 3 flares left. Dad was in the USAF and flew TDY for 30 years. He got this one out of a survival kit that was shaped like a claymore mine. He kept it in our 14' boat for emergencys and fired it off once in the backyard for us kids to see how they worked and to instruct us if we ever needed it. I'd like to find 6 more flares just to keep in a bug out bag for "just incase". Have to start hitting some gun shows.

Posted: 9/12/2010 2:37:30 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is this not considered a class 3 item. If someone has a book look it up.

common myth but totally untrue.

Thanks for the reply. I had been shown a similar flare pen and the picture in the BATF info. I am not familiar with the items must have been something else. The item I saw was from the Air Force.

What you saw probably was a LAUNCHER. These can be made into firearms. You just have to make a threaded attachment that acts as a barrel instead of it just being a threaded flare. Just like a zip gun.

I recall reading about some asshat that took fired flares and made small shotshells out of them.

ATF had his ass on a platter.

Posted: 9/12/2010 3:24:39 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Go ahead, call the companies. They're gonna tell you to FOAD though.

Yep, got an email:

Sorry, we only sell to the DOD at this time.

Thank you for your interest.

It's unfortunate, really. They would make a killing with the civvie market. Well, if they didn't try to rape them on the cost's. Depending on which DODIC we order depends on the price. I'll see if I can dig up some 1348's tomorrow and find the prices. Some of them are pretty spendy.

One of the kits is 70+ dollars.

Posted: 9/12/2010 3:36:40 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.....You just don't understand the seriousness of this!! Why did you edit your OP?

Quoted:

Then why the fuck did you ask the question and waste my fucking time?

Quoted:

ETA: If you shoot up a flare, it better well be a damn emergency! You're pissing me off already.

Quoted:

...Go ahead and shoot your flares, asshole. Flares are sometimes shot up in BFE. Agencies will scramble to try to find the person in distress....

Someone needs a hug

actually someone is about to get a time out if they dodon't get one soon.

Posted: 9/12/2010 5:58:37 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

After seeing this thread, I kinda want some now.

There are several commercial ones out there, you can also get spare flares for them.

Anywhere you can order spare flares for the MK 79? Or maybe a commercial flare could be adapted?

Go ahead, call the companies. They're gonna tell you to FOAD though.

Yep, got an email:

Sorry, we only sell to the DOD at this time.

Thank you for your interest.

It's unfortunate, really. They would make a killing with the civvie market. Well, if they didn't try to rape them on the cost's. Depending on which DODIC we order depends on the price. I'll see if I can dig up some 1348's tomorrow and find the prices. Some of them are pretty spendy.

One of the kits is 70+ dollars.

Some of them are. Some of them aren't. I remember my chief asked me too look up how much we had in the way of munitions dollar wise. Pyro was worth more than most of the small arms ammo which is ridiculous.

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:03:20 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you know what happens when a pen flare goes off in a humvee full of munitions?
http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz110/ryansaur/Iraq/BurnedTruck.jpg

Yeah that happens

Did everyone make it out alright?

Yeah, it was a close thing though. THis was the truck in front of me. It was major major bad luck. The gunner had the pen flare cocked and out of stupidity he put it on the rim of the turret "for just a second" They went over a massive bump, the flare falls in, and it flies around in the cab, finally settling in the pyro box. (full of grenades, smoke, other flares, and best of all, a thermite device.) I hopped out to see why we had stopped and see them try the extinguisher for about 4 seconds, but I heard things starting to pop, and they all bailed. So they grabbed their small arms and bailed. EVERYTHING melted. Including the .50. We had LAW rockets and AT4's in there so it was quite a fireworks show.

ETA - About 3k .50 cal rounds cooked off too. That was kind of scary. No matter what anyone says, a cooked off .50 to the face will put the hurt on you.

Damn!

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:06:55 PM EDT

[#35]

the commerial kits...

http://truflareusa.com/productcatalog.htm

Posted: 9/12/2010 11:23:39 PM EDT

[#36]

L113 MK142 Mod 0 white flare kits go for 24.20

L312 M127a1 white illum parachute flare 50.52

L131 MK135 Mod 0 Vari color flare kit 21.26

L283 MK124 Mod 0 Smoke and Illum 52.21

L118 just like the OP had 73.37 ouch...FreeRider was correct. Good job, bud.

The other pencil flare kits such as the all green and all red kits go for about the same price as the white and vari color kits. Hope that helps if not just informative of how your tax dollars are spent.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:04:50 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
L113 MK142 Mod 0 white flare kits go for 24.20
L312 M127a1 white illum parachute flare 50.52
L131 MK135 Mod 0 Vari color flare kit 21.26
L283 MK124 Mod 0 Smoke and Illum 52.21
L118 just like the OP had 73.37 ouch...FreeRider was correct. Good job, bud.

The other pencil flare kits such as the all green and all red kits go for about the same price as the white and vari color kits. Hope that helps if not just informative of how your tax dollars are spent.

those prices are cheaper than commercial kits.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:10:27 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.....You just don't understand the seriousness of this!! Why did you edit your OP?

Quoted:

Then why the fuck did you ask the question and waste my fucking time?

Quoted:

ETA: If you shoot up a flare, it better well be a damn emergency! You're pissing me off already.

Quoted:

...Go ahead and shoot your flares, asshole. Flares are sometimes shot up in BFE. Agencies will scramble to try to find the person in distress....

Someone needs a hug

or a e-ass beating!

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:13:57 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I heard that the old threaded versions were being phased out for twist-ons...any truth to that?

might be. tru-flare offers both types.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:45:27 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you know what happens when a pen flare goes off in a humvee full of munitions?
http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz110/ryansaur/Iraq/BurnedTruck.jpg

Yeah that happens

Did everyone make it out alright?

Yeah, it was a close thing though. THis was the truck in front of me. It was major major bad luck. The gunner had the pen flare cocked and out of stupidity he put it on the rim of the turret "for just a second" They went over a massive bump, the flare falls in, and it flies around in the cab, finally settling in the pyro box. (full of grenades, smoke, other flares, and best of all, a thermite device.) I hopped out to see why we had stopped and see them try the extinguisher for about 4 seconds, but I heard things starting to pop, and they all bailed. So they grabbed their small arms and bailed. EVERYTHING melted. Including the .50. We had LAW rockets and AT4's in there so it was quite a fireworks show.

ETA - About 3k .50 cal rounds cooked off too. That was kind of scary. No matter what anyone says, a cooked off .50 to the face will put the hurt on you.

I still remember the pics of the Marine that blew his hand up using a .50BMG round as a pin punch.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:47:08 AM EDT

[#41]

havent seen those in years. i remember when we had the huge 10ga flares on my first 2 ships.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:27:45 AM EDT

[#42]

My understanding is that the navy pen flare guns and the truflare pen one are considered by ATF to be pen guns and thus are regulated/banned etc. In the US.

I went fishing in Northern Canada back in the late 1980's and found the Truflare in a sports shop. I bought it and some flares. Basically the flare itself is in a plastic piece that screws into the end of the pen. It is powered by a 22 blank or .32 blank depending on who makes the flare. The striker in the pen gun is reversible for either the offset rim fire of the .22 or center fire. Consequently one could make a metal barrel for it that screws on and have a real pen gun. One thing I noticed is that once fired you could reload the plastic flare cup with a .22 blank and shoot other things out of it like bird bombs etc.

As I recall they worked pretty well. Of course I didn't bring the launcher back into the US but I did bring some flares back. I wish I had because the exchange rate at the time was was $.46 Canadian to the dollar. This was back when hi-cap Butler Creek steel lip mags were not available in the US but were cheap and plentiful in Canada. I didn't bring a bunch of those back either.

Here is a photo of a couple flares and the empty flare cup. In the background is some .22 blanks used for starter pistols. Those also are used for the little black pistol to launch the red bird bombs.

Put a 22 blank in the white plastic thing and screw it into the pen flare. Stick one of the bird bombs in it and it will launch it pretty well. Unfortunately all I have left are those two flares, some 22 blanks, and a few of those bird bombs. And of course I left the Tru Flare launcher in Canada buried under a tree in case I ever returned.

Posted: 9/13/2010 6:09:42 AM EDT

[#43]

Too bad those aren't available commercially.

Nearest thing I've seen on the civilian market is the Orion pocket rocket. It will fit in a work vest pocket:

pocket rocket

For general use I'm partial to skyblazers:

http://www.bestglide.com/skyblazer_signal_flares.html

Each one is self contained. If it misfires or hangfires, it can be jettisoned in favor of the next one in the kit. There's no dedicated launcher which could disable the whole kit by failing or being lost. Keep the expired ones and you'll amass quite a few of them over the years.

Posted: 9/13/2010 7:44:16 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
My understanding is that the navy pen flare guns and the truflare pen one are considered by ATF to be pen guns and thus are regulated/banned etc. In the US.

I went fishing in Northern Canada back in the late 1980's and found the Truflare in a sports shop. I bought it and some flares. Basically the flare itself is in a plastic piece that screws into the end of the pen. It is powered by a 22 blank or .32 blank depending on who makes the flare. The striker in the pen gun is reversible for either the offset rim fire of the .22 or center fire. Consequently one could make a metal barrel for it that screws on and have a real pen gun. One thing I noticed is that once fired you could reload the plastic flare cup with a .22 blank and shoot other things out of it like bird bombs etc.

As I recall they worked pretty well. Of course I didn't bring the launcher back into the US but I did bring some flares back. I wish I had because the exchange rate at the time was was $.46 Canadian to the dollar. This was back when hi-cap Butler Creek steel lip mags were not available in the US but were cheap and plentiful in Canada. I didn't bring a bunch of those back either.

Here is a photo of a couple flares and the empty flare cup. In the background is some .22 blanks used for starter pistols. Those also are used for the little black pistol to launch the red bird bombs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/100_7891.jpg

Put a 22 blank in the white plastic thing and screw it into the pen flare. Stick one of the bird bombs in it and it will launch it pretty well. Unfortunately all I have left are those two flares, some 22 blanks, and a few of those bird bombs. And of course I left the Tru Flare launcher in Canada buried under a tree in case I ever returned.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/100_7889.jpg

tru flare sells commercially via retail and internet with no atf requirements. the launchers are not designed to handle the pressure of a cartridge and are not considered a firearm. No different than buying a 12g marine flare gun at walmart.

Posted: 9/13/2010 8:43:11 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Too bad those aren't available commercially.

Nearest thing I've seen on the civilian market is the Orion pocket rocket. It will fit in a work vest pocket:

pocket rocket

For general use I'm partial to skyblazers:

http://www.bestglide.com/skyblazer_signal_flares.html

Each one is self contained. If it misfires or hangfires, it can be jettisoned in favor of the next one in the kit. There's no dedicated launcher which could disable the whole kit by failing or being lost. Keep the expired ones and you'll amass quite a few of them over the years.

I saw something similar at Academy not too many years ago. Little pencil flare launcher with the little flip to side button to fire. 4 little flares in a metal can. I thought it was cool at the time, but since I wasn't planning any ocean fishing trips or visiting the Rocky Mountains, I figured I'd be better off spending money on more ammo.

Posted: 9/13/2010 9:42:37 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
My understanding is that the navy pen flare guns and the truflare pen one are considered by ATF to be pen guns and thus are regulated/banned etc. In the US.

This rumor has been floated around for a while, but it is just that...a rumor.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO CONVERT IT TO A WEAPON.

It is a signalling device, and thus exempt from the NFA.

Posted: 9/13/2010 12:23:51 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My understanding is that the navy pen flare guns and the truflare pen one are considered by ATF to be pen guns and thus are regulated/banned etc. In the US.

This rumor has been floated around for a while, but it is just that...a rumor.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO CONVERT IT TO A WEAPON.

It is a signalling device, and thus exempt from the NFA.

All I know is that back when I bought mine, they were not sold in the US and you couldn't (legally) bring them back. I was an FFL at the time and was pretty much up on the laws. Guess I will have to go dig mine back up. They are pretty fun to play with and would be handy to have on my ATV when I am in the back country on extended trips.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Navy pen flares...pic added (Page 2 of 2)

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