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Posted: 9/10/2010 11:20:11 PM EDT
25 years ago today Pete Rose got his 4,192nd hit and broke Ty Cobb’s All Time Hit Record. In all likelihood this record will remain intact for at least another 25 years.

So my question is: Does Pete Rose deserve in be in the MLB Hall of Fame?

I say he does. He hit 4,256 hits without using steroids. That by itself is enough to get him in. I don’t see how what he did AFTER he played baseball should tarnish what he did while he was playing.

I mean if OJ Simpson is allowed to remain in the NFL Hall of Fame after he was found guilty in a civil trial of murder then surely Pete Rose can be allowed into the MLB Hall of Fame even though he bet on baseball games AFTER he was done playing.

What say you?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:20:37 PM EDT
Fuck yes he does.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:22:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Fuck yes he does.


+1
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:25:06 PM EDT
Yes, without a doubt.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:27:12 PM EDT
Yes.

But my grandfather went to his grave without forgiving him for what he did afterwards. Heh.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:27:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 11:31:07 PM EDT by Infallible]
No because he was unrepentant liar. He continuously for years tried to play the innocent game and only years later did he change his tune and still admitting to full truth. He was coach of the team at the time he was gambling, he's a fucking cheat.


ETA: I believe people must be held accountable for their actions. Baseball is doing right by keeping charley the hustler out. There is a reason why no one in the hall of fame wants him in, the bum essentailly shit the bed.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:29:18 PM EDT
Not before shoeless joe
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:33:33 PM EDT
No

He broke the one rule that has been around since the Black Sox scandal and that is you can't bet on baseball.

As a manager he had direct control of the outcome of the games he managed.

If he hadn't lied for so long about gambling on baseball, MAYBE you could believe him when he said he never bet on his team...I don't believe him on that.

His arrogance and years of lying to everyone sealed his fate for this generation.

He will get in one day eventually, but probably not until after he dies.

Shame, one of the best too ever play the game.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:37:16 PM EDT
Yes! The Hall of Fame changed their entry criteria AFTER Pete was banned for life from MLB. That's BS.

Meanwhile you get jerks that are known druggies that are not banned for life from MLB. The Strawberries, Cansecos, etc...

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:39:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DWFAN:
If he hadn't lied for so long about gambling on baseball, MAYBE you could believe him when he said he never bet on his team...I don't believe him on that.


That's my issue too. He lied about it so long in the first place, despite the evidence the commissioner had, how do we believe anything the man said. Heck, maybe he did use steroids. Maybe he did bet on his team. Maybe he was gambling as a player.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:39:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Yes! The Hall of Fame changed their entry criteria AFTER Pete was banned for life from MLB. That's BS.

Meanwhile you get jerks that are known druggies that are not banned for life from MLB. The Strawberries, Cansecos, etc...



No they didn't. Shoeless Joe Jackson is most prominent figure to be banned prior to. Strawberry, Canseco etc? Which one of those guys are in the hall of fame again? None.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:40:00 PM EDT
We've done this many times and it always comes down to two crowds, the "He sure hit a lot of baseballs! herr durrr" crowd and the "I respect the game almost like religion" crowd.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:46:00 PM EDT
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:51:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.



Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:53:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.





And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:53:35 PM EDT
Poll needs a "who fucking cares" option.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:54:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.





And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.


Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:54:49 PM EDT
Rules are rules.

He bet on baseball knowing the consequences.

Did he have a hall of fame career? You bet your ass he did.

Does he belong there? Absolutely not.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:56:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Fuck yes he does.


I came in to post these EXACT words.

FUCk YES HE DOES!
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:56:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.





And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.

Yes indeed.

Everyone involved with pro baseball KNOWS there is really only one unforgivable sin, and that's gambling on games.

Stupid games, stupid prizes for ol' Pete


Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:56:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.





And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.




It is what it is...no matter how much I argue you'd probably never get it.

Baseball deserves better than that.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:57:19 PM EDT
I don't believe he deserves it.

I've also always wanted somebody to beat his ass. Sophomoric of me but something I wish for nonetheless.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:57:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rudolf_Diesel:
Poll needs a "who fucking cares" option.

Then why did you click this thread?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:58:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rudolf_Diesel:
Poll needs a "who fucking cares" option.


It's the don't click on the thread option.

GTFO and viva Rose!
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:00:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steriod HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.





And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.




It is what it is...no matter how much I argue you'd probably never get it.

Baseball deserves better than that.


Yea, modern baseball is so much more honest and honorable Hell even 75 years ago, teams did this shit.

What is worse, betting that My team is better than yours, or lying to congress and taking drugs that no one else is supposed to take to artifically improve performance?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:02:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 12:02:45 AM EDT by Kalahnikid]
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

What is worse, betting that My team is better than yours, or lying to congress and taking drugs that no one else is supposed to take to artifically improve performance?


Thats just as wrong. Stop trying to justify Pete Rose breaking not just the rules but the integrity of the game by comparing him to more recent sinners against baseball.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:02:36 AM EDT
yes. it's the hall of fame, not the hall of best fucking manners.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:03:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Fuck yes he does.


Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:04:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

What is worse, betting that My team is better than yours, or lying to congress and taking drugs that no one else is supposed to take to artifically improve performance?


Thats just as wrong. Stop trying to justify Pete Rose breaking not just the rules but the integrity of the game by comparing him to more recent sinners against baseball.


I'm just asking for consistant application of all these 'unwritten' morality rules in baseball.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:05:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FTAggie:
Rules are rules.

He bet on baseball knowing the consequences.

Did he have a hall of fame career? You bet your ass he did.

Does he belong there? Absolutely not.


This.

Modern steroid use has no bearing on this case.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:06:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steroid HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.




And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.



It is what it is...no matter how much I argue you'd probably never get it.

Baseball deserves better than that.


Yea, modern baseball is so much more honest and honorable Hell even 75 years ago, teams did this shit.

What is worse, betting that My team is better than yours, or lying to congress and taking drugs that no one else is supposed to take to artifically improve performance?

That's WHY the no betting on baseball rules came down as a deterrent to anyone who would attempt to alter the integrity of a game.

We are not discussing steroids or lying to congress...this thread is about Pete Rose

And again, you are taking an admitted liar and compulsive gamblers word that he didn't bet on his team to lose.

I live close to NY, would you like to buy a bridge?

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:08:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
He always bet HIS team would win! What bullshit this is when you let cheating steroid HGH fucks into the Hall.

How the hell could Pete influence game when all his bets were "oh yea, I'll bet we beat your ass."

If he was in a position/had incentive to throw games, I could understand, but he never did that.
Your whole premise is that he never bet on his team to lose

I don't believe that for one second.

As a manager, he had a DIRECT impact on the outcome of the games he managed.




And even if he really did only bet his teams to win (which Im not sure I believe in the first place)

Its still wrong.



It is what it is...no matter how much I argue you'd probably never get it.

Baseball deserves better than that.


Yea, modern baseball is so much more honest and honorable Hell even 75 years ago, teams did this shit.

What is worse, betting that My team is better than yours, or lying to congress and taking drugs that no one else is supposed to take to artifically improve performance?

That's WHY the no betting on baseball rules came down as a deterrent to anyone who would attempt to alter the integrity of a game.

We are not discussing steroids or lying to congress...this thread is about Pete Rose

And again, you are taking an admitted liar and compulsive gamblers word that he didn't bet on his team to lose.

I live close to NY, would you like to buy a bridge?



You have no proof he bet against his team. Until you do, he is innocent.

Fucking New Yorkers.....

Just pissed the Reds are having a great year.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:09:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rocksarge:
yes. it's the hall of fame, not the hall of best fucking manners.


The Hall of Fame isn't only about stats.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:10:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

You have no proof he bet against his team. Until you do, he is innocent.

Fucking New Yorkers.....

Just pissed the Reds are having a great year.


You're missing the point, it doesnt matter....he knew the rules, he broke them, and thats it.

If you break the rules, you will be punished.

Not that fucking hard to understand.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:11:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By Rocksarge:
yes. it's the hall of fame, not the hall of best fucking manners.


The Hall of Fame isn't only about stats.


Name some other as high stat ed players as Rose who have not gotten in, and why they were denied....
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:13:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

You have no proof he bet against his team. Until you do, he is innocent.

Fucking New Yorkers.....

Just pissed the Reds are having a great year.


You're missing the point, it doesnt matter....he knew the rules, he broke them, and thats it.

If you break the rules, you will be punished.

Not that fucking hard to understand.


What is so hard to understand about "the punishment should fit the crime"

He wasn't throwing games.

He wasn't doing anything more than putting cash on the trash talk every team does to each other. No more, no less.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:17:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

You have no proof he bet against his team. Until you do, he is innocent.

Fucking New Yorkers.....

Just pissed the Reds are having a great year.


You're missing the point, it doesnt matter....he knew the rules, he broke them, and thats it.

If you break the rules, you will be punished.

Not that fucking hard to understand.


What is so hard to understand about "the punishment should fit the crime"


It does. Anything that makes fans think that an honest game isnt being played should result in a perma-ban.

Gambling by anyone in a position to influence the game has no place whatsoever in baseball.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:18:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By Rocksarge:
yes. it's the hall of fame, not the hall of best fucking manners.


The Hall of Fame isn't only about stats.


Name some other as high stat ed players as Rose who have not gotten in, and why they were denied....

Name another player/manager that did what Pete did?

We're talking about what HE did.


Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:19:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

You have no proof he bet against his team. Until you do, he is innocent.

Fucking New Yorkers.....

Just pissed the Reds are having a great year.


You're missing the point, it doesnt matter....he knew the rules, he broke them, and thats it.

If you break the rules, you will be punished.

Not that fucking hard to understand.


What is so hard to understand about "the punishment should fit the crime"


It does. Anything that makes fans think that an honest game isnt being played should result in a perma-ban.

Gambling by anyone in a position to influence the game has no place whatsoever in baseball.

Exactly
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:34:16 AM EDT
no ...

he broke the rules and he's a fucking liar ...

why guys find it neccessary to worship other males is beyond me ...

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:46:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:

You have no proof he bet against his team. Until you do, he is innocent.

Fucking New Yorkers.....

Just pissed the Reds are having a great year.


You're missing the point, it doesnt matter....he knew the rules, he broke them, and thats it.

If you break the rules, you will be punished.

Not that fucking hard to understand.


What is so hard to understand about "the punishment should fit the crime"

He wasn't throwing games.

He wasn't doing anything more than putting cash on the trash talk every team does to each other. No more, no less.


While knowingly violating the rules.

I think Pete is a perfect example of the Hall of Fame. As in, "If you lie, break the rules, or cheat, you don't deserve to be here."



Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:50:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_4th_Horseman:


What say you?

I say, whose troll account are you?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:54:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By npd233:

Originally Posted By The_4th_Horseman:


What say you?

I say, whose troll account are you?


How am I a troll?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:00:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_4th_Horseman:
Originally Posted By npd233:

Originally Posted By The_4th_Horseman:


What say you?

I say, whose troll account are you?


How am I a troll?


You're not.

It's a perfectly legit topic and question.

The lifers like to get uppity.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:15:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FTAggie:
Rules are rules.

He bet on baseball knowing the consequences.

Did he have a hall of fame career? You bet your ass he did.

Does he belong there? Absolutely not.


Truth.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:19:18 AM EDT
I don't care.

I also don't care about the baseball hall of fame.

He already has been inducted into the Liars Hall of Fame.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:26:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bdcochran:
I don't care.

I also don't care about the baseball hall of fame.

He already has been inducted into the Liars Hall of Fame.

Along with Roger Clemens.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:48:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Infallible:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Yes! The Hall of Fame changed their entry criteria AFTER Pete was banned for life from MLB. That's BS.

Meanwhile you get jerks that are known druggies that are not banned for life from MLB. The Strawberries, Cansecos, etc...



No they didn't. Shoeless Joe Jackson is most prominent figure to be banned prior to. Strawberry, Canseco etc? Which one of those guys are in the hall of fame again? None.


Aug 24, 1989 - Pete Rose was banned from Major League Baseball.
Feb 4, 1991 - The Hall of Fame voted to exclude individuals on the permanently ineligible list from being inducted.

I never said Strawberry or Canseco were in the HOF, merely that they were never banned from MLB for what I would consider much worse than gambling. Multiple illegal substance charges, and a few firearms violations.

Pete Rose also set 19 MLB records during his time. Pete Rose still maintained a winning record with the Reds. I do find it cool that the Cincinnati Cyclones hockey club retired a #14 for Pete Rose (since the Reds are not allowed to).

Agree to disagree bud, you aren't changing my mind on this one.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:24:16 AM EDT
I was hoping there'd be pics of his girlfriends bewbs.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:30:03 AM EDT
Nope.
Pete Rose lied , his Hall of Fame dreams died.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:33:26 AM EDT
You just can't take a man's accomplishments away from him. Yes, he deserves to be in the MLB Hall of Fame.
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