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Posted: 9/10/2010 3:58:48 PM EDT
8 years, and 200 some post later, I finally need my fellow gun guys

Long story short, I won anGunbroker auction for an AR-10. After the auction I contacted the seller for payment and FFL information. He offered Paypal as an option, ( know, I know) and since I'm about to deploy, I thought it would work for me and my time frame. I got an email back saying to send funds and add 3% for Paypal. I told the seller he should have stated that in the auction and it was not right to try to charge me more after the auction closed. He said it was wrong because he won't get full sale value, I said it was wrong for me to pay more money than the auction closed for (plus shipping of course). The guy didn't even worry about the FFL after I asked him a few times on where to fax it. He told me he didn't need it just send an address, WTF ? This is the email I sent to him, am I wrong here?

"Sir,
I have tried a few times to reach you by email and have tried calling the phone number listed for contacts on Gunbroker. I have yet to receive a response. I wanted to talk about other payment options with you as you seem to have changed your mind on Paypal. As I stated, the extra 3% was not mentioned in the auction, and fees cannot be added after the auction is complete. I know you feel like you are not getting full value for the sale, but is it right for me to pay extra?
It is further troubling that you did not want my FFLs information the several times I asked for a fax number? The only response ingot was "send money, i'll ship". You, as a seller cannot ship without having a copy of my dealers FFL. This is for your protection, not mine. As I mentioned, I am about to deploy for military duty and would like to resolve this quickly. If you feel like this sold for less than it's worth, I'm sorry but I bid in accordance with the auction you started. It is not fair to ask for more than it sold for. I offered a postal MO so you would get full price with no fees. I am waiting for your wishes. I will not send $900 plus dollars to a seller who does not communicate. I would like to finish this deal, please advise."


The guy may even be an ARFCOMMER, who knows? If the guy wanted out of the sale, why not just tell me? It was a no reserve aution, sorry, but you get what is bid on closing plus shipping. Am I crazy? It's been a few days now with no emails.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:01:00 PM EDT
Welcome to the Internet, and better luck on future auctions.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:02:19 PM EDT
The 3% thing I understand––after all, you didn't have to use Paypal––you could've just sent him a money order. (You can also use the Paypal "Gift" option––there are no fees taken out, but there is little to no recourse that you would have if the sale went bad. But then again, by using Paypal for a firearm, you would have no recourse anyway...)

It's the other part that would make me walk away. If he isn't interest in playing by the rules, I would not send money, but that's just me.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:02:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 4:03:19 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
I would not send a dime. Or you will be asking for more "Hive Mind" advice on how to either get your money back or get the guy to send your rifle, after the deal goes south. Which IMO it already has.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:03:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 4:07:21 PM EDT by NineLivez]



Seriously, I would be very leery of the seller who 1) dose not state prices up from, 2) is willing to violate fed law, and 3) is not serious enough to stay in touch. I would bail if he didn't get his act together.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:04:55 PM EDT
When paying with PayPal, I expect to pay the fees.

If you don't want to pay the fees, tell him you'll mail a money order.

The "don't worry about the FFL, just give me an address" is no big deal either, so long as you give him the address of your FFL.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:06:50 PM EDT
The 3% thing is very common with Paypal due to the fees they charge me, He offered it after the fact because Gunbroker wont let you offer it in auctions. I don't blame him for not wanting to write off 3% because I wouldn't either.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:09:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TerribleTom:
When paying with PayPal, I expect to pay the fees.

If you don't want to pay the fees, tell him you'll mail a money order.

The "don't worry about the FFL, just give me an address" is no big deal either, so long as you give him the address of your FFL.


It was my understanding he needed either a mailed copy, or a faxed copy of an FFL. As I said, I understand he has to pay a fee. I offered a USPS money order so he got the "full sale value", he doesn't respond. My issue is he should have stated "plus 3% for PP" in the auction, I have sold many things, if I accept PP it is a cost I incur.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:11:07 PM EDT
3% is SOP on internet transactions using gaypal. It covers the gaypal fee. Keep this in mind in the future and you won't get caught be surprise. Now you can just send MO and the deal will take longer. But don't send until better communication is recieved. Simple as that. I've done hundreds of deals this way. Some seller's get boo ku e mails and are slow to respond as they have a lot to respond to. Patience helps a lot. Get delivery confermation on everything. Your shipping address should be your FFL. ONLY SEND THE MONEY WHEN YOUR SURE IT"S ALL LEGIT. Better to find another deal than get burned.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:31:58 PM EDT
If he is an individual then he doesn't actually have to have a copy. I think you should forget this deal. Might have to take some bad feedback though. I'd rather have bad feedback than be out a big chunk of change. I do understand the 3% and think he is more than justified in asking for it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:40:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
3% is SOP on internet transactions using gaypal. It covers the gaypal fee. Keep this in mind in the future and you won't get caught be surprise. Now you can just send MO and the deal will take longer. But don't send until better communication is recieved. Simple as that. I've done hundreds of deals this way. Some seller's get boo ku e mails and are slow to respond as they have a lot to respond to. Patience helps a lot. Get delivery confermation on everything. Your shipping address should be your FFL. ONLY SEND THE MONEY WHEN YOUR SURE IT"S ALL LEGIT. Better to find another deal than get burned.


If I am unaware of internet gun buying protocol, then mea culpa, however this could have been worked out when I offered other methods of payment. Still no excuse for a communtication fail, we are adults after all.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:45:57 PM EDT

I don't mind paying the PayPal percentage if its clearly stated up front. I get annoyed if someone tries to tack it on later with the "but you should have known" bullshit.

Same reason I only get gas at the "Same price - cash or credit" stations. It's as much for your convenience as it is mine.


Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:53:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USCGflyer:
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
3% is SOP on internet transactions using gaypal. It covers the gaypal fee. Keep this in mind in the future and you won't get caught be surprise. Now you can just send MO and the deal will take longer. But don't send until better communication is recieved. Simple as that. I've done hundreds of deals this way. Some seller's get boo ku e mails and are slow to respond as they have a lot to respond to. Patience helps a lot. Get delivery confirmation on everything. Your shipping address should be your FFL. ONLY SEND THE MONEY WHEN YOUR SURE IT"S ALL LEGIT. Better to find another deal than get burned.


If I am unaware of internet gun buying protocol, then mea culpa, however this could have been worked out when I offered other methods of payment. Still no excuse for a communtication fail, we are adults after all.


I agree on the communication. What should have been clarified is not. And now all becomes suspect.I'd give it just a little more time and if communication does not improve dramatically I'd pass on the deal. And remember bad feedback works both ways.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:00:38 PM EDT
Good call man, thanks! Kinda sucks, I really would have liked that rifle, but I guess that's life.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:07:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 5:09:25 PM EDT by JoeCoastie]

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
I would not send a dime. Or you will be asking for more "Hive Mind" advice on how to either get your money back or get the guy to send your rifle, after the deal goes south. Which IMO it already has.

Then again he can use the full might of the US government/Coast Guard legal services to hunt the asshole down and get his money back.


Flyer, don't even bother. Cut your losses.

I had pretty much the same thing happen to me in this EE with a lower I had. Asshole kept stringing me along. I never heard back from him. I just said don't bother sending payment.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:11:04 PM EDT
Hey Bro, good to hear from you. Doing alright?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 5:17:06 PM EDT by flyfishnepa]
Originally Posted By USCGflyer:
You, as a seller cannot ship without having a copy of my dealers FFL.


i don't think that's true. i shipped a firearm on here without having a copy of the buyers FFL dealer. i just looked up the FFL to see if it was legit then shipped it.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:18:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USCGflyer:
Hey Bro, good to hear from you. Doing alright?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


What AR-10 model?

Really.



Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:18:43 PM EDT
I would bail the hell out of this transaction. Murphy is strong with this one.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:21:38 PM EDT
He OFFERED paypal...

It is customary to add 3% for paypal, but lazy to offer it and not specifically state right then that 3% is added to the final bid.

That's lazy and sloppy, but not fraudulent.

If I did such a thing (unintentionally, of course), I'd drop the 3% for goodwill...

Not demanding, and then obviously unwilling to verify, that the gun is to be shipped to your FFL is, well, moronically stupid and suspiciously cavalier.

I'd say any trust and good faith you each had in each other is gone.

Keep your money unless it can be consummated FTF.

Move on.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:40:09 PM EDT
Was the seller in your state? Legal to ship to you directly.
Just sayin'.
ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:47:17 PM EDT
FTF FTW.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:56:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USCGflyer:
Hey Bro, good to hear from you. Doing alright?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Doing good! Sorry I missed you last week.
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