You are on a court martial board. What's the verdict. - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - You are on a court martial board. What's the verdict. (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 9/10/2010 10:10:46 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

You do know that those trials were 1. Because they lost. 2. Because they slaughtered millions of civilians in clear cut crimes against humanity.

You should also know that according to the laws of war these guys are provided no protections due to fighing out of uniform for no nation. Therefore their execution is 100% justified and NOT murder.

What do you suppose our Spec Ops guys do when they capture some AQ dude in enemy territory and have no use for him or can't extricate his ass? I'm willing to bet he gets shot or gets his throat cut. If they do that should they get the death penalty Dave?

Posted: 9/10/2010 10:18:34 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

You do know that those trials were 1. Because they lost. 2. Because they slaughtered millions of civilians in clear cut crimes against humanity.

Doesn't excuse smaller-scale murder.

You should also know that according to the laws of war these guys are provided no protections due to fighing out of uniform for no nation. Therefore their execution is 100% justified and NOT murder.

Nope, that's not what the current LOAC provides for.

Shooting prisoners, regardless of 'uniform' status, is murder.

What do you suppose our Spec Ops guys do when they capture some AQ dude in enemy territory and have no use for him or can't extricate his ass? I'm willing to bet he gets shot or gets his throat cut. If they do that should they get the death penalty Dave?

If any of our troops do that, yes, they should get charged with murder, and punished as a court martial would direct.

And I'm willing to bet you're wrong, and prisoners are treated as standing orders & the law of war requires - eg, safely extracted to the rear...

The 'out of uniform = execution' thing is NO LONGER legal. Summary Execution is NEVER legal under the current LOAC.

Even unlawful combatants are entitled to a hearing (in the rear, not a drumhead) to determine status (unlawful vs POW) before any punishment may be levied...

Trust me, we get this stuff as death-by-power-point for 2-3 days, every year.

There is no 'Shoot' in the 5-s's of prisoner treatment.

Posted: 9/10/2010 10:27:14 AM EDT

[#3]

Guilty as charged. $1 fine, a pat on the back, a retirement home near the US/Mexico border, a sniper rifle and all the ammo he can use.

Posted: 9/10/2010 10:44:55 AM EDT

[#4]

They should never have made it to Gitmo in the first place. Damn ROE's.

Posted: 9/10/2010 10:58:00 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Guilty. Conspiracy to Commit Murder. Death Penalty.

For:

1) The GO
2) The intervening Commanders who complied with the order.

Murder & the Death Penalty for:

1) The Pilots
2) Whichever E-anything opened that door.

Everybody who had a chance to stop it, and didn't FRIES.

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

This is exactly what I came to say.

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:19:42 AM EDT

[#6]

Severe disobedience of authority, the harshest available punishment both as he deserves on principle and also to make an example.

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:32:26 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Maybe, if you want to be nice give them a cigarette.

You DO give them a cigarette.

There are SOME traditions that should not be tampered with.

This is the difference between civilized conduct and savagery.

I can just see this....10 minutes before the 'drop off' the crew chief goes to each one and offers a cig and a light.....after they are all lit up he goes to the cockpit, takes a seat and tell the pilot "cargo ready to be deployed, sir."

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:37:56 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

You do know that those trials were 1. Because they lost. 2. Because they slaughtered millions of civilians in clear cut crimes against humanity.

Doesn't excuse smaller-scale murder.

You should also know that according to the laws of war these guys are provided no protections due to fighing out of uniform for no nation. Therefore their execution is 100% justified and NOT murder.

Nope, that's not what the current LOAC provides for.

Shooting prisoners, regardless of 'uniform' status, is murder.

What do you suppose our Spec Ops guys do when they capture some AQ dude in enemy territory and have no use for him or can't extricate his ass? I'm willing to bet he gets shot or gets his throat cut. If they do that should they get the death penalty Dave?

If any of our troops do that, yes, they should get charged with murder, and punished as a court martial would direct.

And I'm willing to bet you're wrong, and prisoners are treated as standing orders & the law of war requires - eg, safely extracted to the rear...

The 'out of uniform = execution' thing is NO LONGER legal. Summary Execution is NEVER legal under the current LOAC.

Even unlawful combatants are entitled to a hearing (in the rear, not a drumhead) to determine status (unlawful vs POW) before any punishment may be levied...

Trust me, we get this stuff as death-by-power-point for 2-3 days, every year.

There is no 'Shoot' in the 5-s's of prisoner treatment.

Ok so they are....

Spit
Strike
Smash
Shock
Slice

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:38:27 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Guilty. Dude didn't have to murder them.

Sink every pilot involved. It's their duty to disobey an unlawful order.

And pput another shitload of terrs back in circulation?

It's the right thing to do. I'm all for blowing motherfuckers away in a firefight but as soon as we start executing them we're no better.

If I remember correctly, we took a lot of these guys because their OWN COUNTRY was going to kill them. Gitmo saved their disgusting little lives.

Well then, if we repatriate them, their own country will get the job done for us and we don't have to worry about stooping to their level. I also have a problem with assuming that the people we have in custody are all guilty of heinous crimes worthy of immediate execution without trial; I just don't believe that everyone we've thrown in gitmo is guilty of crimes worthy of execution without trial. Maybe i'm just old fashioned, though; some of you guys have a real bloodlust it would seem, for killing people who haven't actually been tried and proven guilty of...anything.

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:39:51 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Maybe, if you want to be nice give them a cigarette.

You DO give them a cigarette.

There are SOME traditions that should not be tampered with.

This is the difference between civilized conduct and savagery.

I can just see this....10 minutes before the 'drop off' the crew chief goes to each one and offers a cig and a light.....after they are all lit up he goes to the cockpit, takes a seat and tell the pilot "cargo ready to be deployed, sir."

I wonder. Would they be referred to as "self-unloading cargo"?

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:15:37 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

There is no 'Shoot' in the 5-s's of prisoner treatment.

Ok so they are....

Spit
Strike
Smash
Shock
Slice

[/quote]

Let's see if my mildewed mind still works.

Off the top of my head, and no Google:

Search
seize
Segregate
safeguard
speed.

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:32:04 PM EDT

[#12]

ARMY

conduct unbecoming. take his star, make him a full bird, force him to retire with an honorable.

ME

meritorious service medal

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:35:22 PM EDT

[#13]

If the flight crews are loyal enough to the General to do it, they're loyal enough to produce a better story.

Aircraft emergency over the Atlantic. Crew bailed-out unharmed. Spotted by nearby US naval vessel. Crew recovered. Aircraft and passengers lost.

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:38:26 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Search
seize
Segregate
safeguard
speed.

I'm probably missing some ninja logic here, but what exactly is the purpose of putting them on speed after you get them segregated and safeguarded?

(

)

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:39:39 PM EDT

[#15]

Old school :

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:45:36 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Search

seize

Segregate

safeguard

speed.

I'm probably missing some ninja logic here, but what exactly is the purpose of putting them on speed after you get them segregated and safeguarded?

(

)

It's;

Search

Silence

Segregate

Safeguard

Speed to the Rear

The 'speed' part is get them the hell out of the combat zone, and to a secure holding facility where they can be held, interrogated, and if needed tried for war crimes.

Posted: 9/10/2010 12:58:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Guilty. Conspiracy to Commit Murder. Death Penalty.

For:

1) The GO
2) The intervening Commanders who complied with the order.

Murder & the Death Penalty for:

1) The Pilots
2) Whichever E-anything opened that door.

Everybody who had a chance to stop it, and didn't FRIES.

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

This right here.

Posted: 9/10/2010 1:00:31 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
The 'speed' part is get them the hell out of the combat zone, and to a secure holding facility where they can be held, interrogated, and if needed tried for war crimes.

Yes. Notice my

. Little joke.

Posted: 9/10/2010 2:29:45 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Guilty. Conspiracy to Commit Murder. Death Penalty.

For:

1) The GO
2) The intervening Commanders who complied with the order.

Murder & the Death Penalty for:

1) The Pilots
2) Whichever E-anything opened that door.

Everybody who had a chance to stop it, and didn't FRIES.

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

So the GI's that killed german POWs should have fried as well?

Posted: 9/10/2010 2:41:26 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You are on the board of a General Officer who was given the order to repatriate all Gitmo prisoners ASAP.

He immediately stuffed them all into a number of C-130s with orders for the pilots to fly to the capitals of the prisoners respective countries, open the rear door and stand the plane on its tail feathers.

All of the pilots complied.

From the time he got the orders until the last prisoner was repatriated was 23 hours, 12 minutes.

He is being charged with disobeying a direct order, as it was supposidly IMPLIED that this be done with dignity.

What's the verdict?

Guilty. Conspiracy to Commit Murder. Death Penalty.

For:

1) The GO
2) The intervening Commanders who complied with the order.

Murder & the Death Penalty for:

1) The Pilots
2) Whichever E-anything opened that door.

Everybody who had a chance to stop it, and didn't FRIES.

Just like we said to the Nazis back in '45-46... 'I was just following orders' is NOT a defense to murder.

So the GI's that killed german POWs should have fried as well?

Do we have evidence of US GIs intentionally murdering German prisoners? I've got no problem dealing out full punishment to them.