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Posted: 9/10/2010 6:06:33 AM EDT
is a .22 lr coming out of a barrel designed for a .223/5.56 mm FMJ round accurate compared to the latter?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:08:41 AM EDT
tag for quick answer and ill shut up.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:09:04 AM EDT
I use a CMMG conversion in one of my carbines, 14.5 1/9 barrel. I get pretty decent groups at 50 yards even with crappy Remington Golden ammo.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:09:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By junebug68:
I use a CMMG conversion in one of my carbines, 14.5 1/9 barrel. I get pretty decent groups at 50 yards even with crappy Remington Golden ammo.


decent like 1" or decent like pie plate?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:12:11 AM EDT
I'm very interested in 25-yard accuracy on these kits and if anybody can recommend a particular kit.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:12:31 AM EDT
I have a Spikes SR-22 dedicated upper and the accuracy is good, not great.
I also swap it out with the BCG on my A4 clone, and it's good out to 50 yards, but beyond that it's all over the place.
But I use the .22 conversion for training to build muscle memory, not accuracy.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:12:40 AM EDT
The groups are reasonable but less accurate than a dedicated .22. My spikes kit seems to open up groups by about an 1" at 50 yards over similar groups with my GSG.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:13:31 AM EDT
At 50yds I get "decent" like baseball sized (or maybe very slightly smaller).

Back to back it's noticeably less accurate than 5.56 but good enough for my purposes.

This is from a 10yr old bushmaster upper, m4 profile barrel, can't remember the twist.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:14:03 AM EDT
I have the milsurp kit I bought thru SARCO way back in the day and the current Ciener kit.

I'd say accuracy is the same as you would get out of a factory 10-22. In other words, no great shakes and I would not use it for matches, but good enough for shooting cans. Call it a 3-6" group at 50 yds depending on ammo.

Round nose bullet profiles only. Both kits choke on the hyper-velocity stuff.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:14:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hilljb:
Originally Posted By junebug68:
I use a CMMG conversion in one of my carbines, 14.5 1/9 barrel. I get pretty decent groups at 50 yards even with crappy Remington Golden ammo.


decent like 1" or decent like pie plate?

Should've been more specific...sorry. By "decent" I mean around 2-3", sometimes less if I do my part.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:15:16 AM EDT
My zero changed an inch right and an inch down at 25 yards.

I think the slower twist rate barrels are better than fast twist.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:15:50 AM EDT
Awesome, thanks hive. I was looking at one for plinking, training, SHTF small game purposes. Sound like it's worth it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:23:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hilljb:
Awesome, thanks hive. I was looking at one for plinking, training, SHTF small game purposes. Sound like it's worth it.

If those are your expectations, a conversion kit will work just fine.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:35:17 AM EDT
Get it........ I use a cmmg kit in a cheapo cmmg bargain bin 1/9 and then run a few 223 after the 22 to blow it out. It's more about putting more rounds down range faster than accuracy to me which eventually leads to more accuracy faster with the real thing. The mags are a pita to load though. I did the tampon mod. .......and you can't have too many mags or too much lube on the kit.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:41:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Doclat:
I have a Spikes SR-22 dedicated upper and the accuracy is good, not great.
I also swap it out with the BCG on my A4 clone, and it's good out to 50 yards, but beyond that it's all over the place.
But I use the .22 conversion for training to build muscle memory, not accuracy.


This has been my experience, more or less, with a Ceiner .22 LR kit in a Bushmaster 20", 1:9 heavy barrel upper.

I once took that combo to the 100-yard tunnel to see what would happen. I never got it on paper. I don't know whether the bullets were actually tumbling past 50 yards, or what.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:44:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:46:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hilljb:
Awesome, thanks hive. I was looking at one for plinking, training, SHTF small game purposes. Sound like it's worth it.


Forgot to mention. I've never chronographed them but I'm sure there is some velocity loss. Game loads may not expand reliably at longer ranges.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:47:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beararms:
Get it........ I use a cmmg kit in a cheapo cmmg bargain bin 1/9 and then run a few 223 after the 22 to blow it out. It's more about putting more rounds down range faster than accuracy to me which eventually leads to more accuracy faster with the real thing. The mags are a pita to load though. I did the tampon mod. .......and you can't have too many mags or too much lube on the kit.

What's the tampon mod?

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:48:18 AM EDT
They do great with the surplus 1-in-12 twist barrels.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:49:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pdimaio:

Originally Posted By beararms:
Get it........ I use a cmmg kit in a cheapo cmmg bargain bin 1/9 and then run a few 223 after the 22 to blow it out. It's more about putting more rounds down range faster than accuracy to me which eventually leads to more accuracy faster with the real thing. The mags are a pita to load though. I did the tampon mod. .......and you can't have too many mags or too much lube on the kit.

What's the tampon mod?



Thank you. I wasn't brave enough to ask.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:50:59 AM EDT
Another CMMG user here. Kit pays for itself within two or three range trips. OK accuacy out of a 1/9 twist at 25 yards. Extra mags are a must though. Also get a thumb loader as it makes loading the mags so much easier than by hand. Had trouble tryng to stuff more than 20 rounds in a 26 round mag without the thumb loader.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:57:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pdimaio:

Originally Posted By beararms:
Get it........ I use a cmmg kit in a cheapo cmmg bargain bin 1/9 and then run a few 223 after the 22 to blow it out. It's more about putting more rounds down range faster than accuracy to me which eventually leads to more accuracy faster with the real thing. The mags are a pita to load though. I did the tampon mod. .......and you can't have too many mags or too much lube on the kit.

What's the tampon mod?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOAv6rT30s
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:57:59 AM EDT
Accuracy is not good enough with a CMMG kit in my rifles for 100 yard training, but 50 and under is fine.

I found that I had training scars due to the lack of bolt hold open function, the next time I shot centerfire I skipped the release and manually cycled the bolt without thinking. That reminds me, I could really use one of these CMMG .22LR BHO actuator blocks.

Does anybody know when CMMG started including BHO followers in their mags? I bought mine about a year ago, they have the green followers that stick way out.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:03:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uxb:
They do great with the surplus 1-in-12 twist barrels.

This. With good ammo I could do 1" groups at 50 yards from a rest. That's as good as my stock 10/22, and as good as my CZ-22 upper.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:06:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:14:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 7:17:12 AM EDT by hubcityraider]
Originally Posted By hilljb:
Awesome, thanks hive. I was looking at one for plinking, training, SHTF small game purposes. Sound like it's worth it.

Yeah get one for sure.

I'm with the others on getting baseball sized groups at 50 yards using Fed bulk ammo in a 1/7 twist.

I enjoy varmint hunting at night with it.

ETA: Mine's a Ceiner and runs like a top on everything except Remington ammo. Make sure to get copper plated ammo to keep lead out of your gas tube.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:16:19 AM EDT
The correct twist for 22lr is 1 in 16.

I've got a CZ V22 upper (dedicated .22lr) and it will beat any 5.56 upper shooting .22lr.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:16:36 AM EDT
There is a great thread on this in the rimfire forum. There are comparisons for multiple twist rates, different conversions, ammo, flashhiders, etc. I bet it will have all the info you need.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:30:21 AM EDT
my MP 15-22 is a great .22 carbine trainer...that thing is quality.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 8:32:59 AM EDT
When it isn't FTE or FTF jamming mine (CMMG) will do 3 inch groups low and right at 50 yards when compared to 223 in a 1 in 9 barrel.

I bought a 15-22 and tossed the conversion in a drawer, somewhere.

Never looked back.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:04:00 AM EDT
Took the kids out last weekend with the bushmaster and the ciener kit. I could put hits on steel at 35 yds without even trying. Same POA. I have not put shots on paper with it to check for grouping but my kids were hitting the small steel ducks at 35 yds pretty regularly. We burned through almost 1k of .22 lr and had only about 5 double feeds and no other failures.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:07:27 AM EDT
Soda can....100 yards....no issues.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:37:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
I'm very interested in 25-yard accuracy on these kits and if anybody can recommend a particular kit.


I have a DoubleStar factory (1:9 twist 16" barrel) ban era rifle with a Ciener kit in it... @ 25 yds one ragged hole is not a problem if I do my part...
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:39:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:33:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By offshorebear:
My zero changed an inch right and an inch down at 25 yards.

I think the slower twist rate barrels are better than fast twist.


Try the Aguila 60 grain Sniper Subsonic ammo....
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:45:15 PM EDT
Jerry Cans at 100 yards & I'm happy ...
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:25:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By offshorebear:
My zero changed an inch right and an inch down at 25 yards.

I think the slower twist rate barrels are better than fast twist.


Try the Aguila 60 grain Sniper Subsonic ammo....


I have actually been very surprised with how consistent the Aguila ammo is....
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:33:49 PM EDT
Seen everything from "pretty damn good" to "holy shit I can throw bullets and make a better group". Depends on the barrel
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:34:09 PM EDT
Seen everything from "pretty damn good" to "holy shit I can throw bullets and make a better group". Depends on the barrel
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:48:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 4:53:02 PM EDT by Tech-Com]
I get pretty good groups with just a conversion kit. Oddly barrel twist has had very little to do with accuracy. It seems the quality of the barrel is much more important. Even more important is finding the right ammo. Different brands of ammo can give you anywhere from 2moa to 10moa groups depending on your setup.


Below are 3 different Uppers I have done testing with. Aguila 38gr Super Extra is my go to hunting round. High velocity hollow point and great accuracy. I've had a bunch of ammo backordered with midway for some time now. I hope to pick back up my testing again soon.

</> </> </>
.22 Long Rifle Accuracy Information For
16" WOA Barrel 1/7 Twist
Average Average Average Group Average Group
Ammo Type Weight Bullet Type Velocity at Muzzle Ballistic Coeficient Ironsight MOA Scope MOA
Aguila .22 Super Extra 38gr Plated Lead Hollow Point 1282 0.0901 0 2.07
Aguila .22 Supermaximum Hyper Velocity 30gr Plated Hollow Point 0 0.075 0 5.41



</> </> </>
.22 Long Rifle Accuracy Information For
18" CMMG Barrel 1/8 Twist
Average Average Average Group Average Group
Ammo Type Weight Bullet Type Velocity at Muzzle Ballistic Coeficient Ironsight MOA Scope MOA
Aguila .22 Super Extra 38gr Plated Lead Hollow Point 1277 0.0901 0 2.96
Aguila .22 Sub-Sonic Sniper 60gr Lead Round Nose 0 0.1 0 3.08
CCI Velocitor 40gr Plated Hollow Point 0 0.1031 0 3.71
Winchestor Super X High Velocity Super Speed 37gr Hollow Point 0 0.1104 0 4.69
Aguila .22 Supermaximum Hyper Velocity 30gr Plated Hollow Point 0 0.075 0 5.03


</>
.22 Long Rifle Accuracy Information For
M16A1 20" Barrel 1/12 Twist
Average Average Average Group Average Group
Ammo Type Weight Bullet Type Velocity at Muzzle Ballistic Coeficient Ironsight MOA Scope MOA
Blazer .22lr 40gr 40gr Lead Round Nose 0 0 0 3.31
Aguila .22 Super Extra 38gr Plated Lead Hollow Point 1302 0.0901 0 4.19
CCI Velocitor 40gr Plated Hollow Point 1252 0.1031 0 4.63
Winchestor Super X High Velocity 37gr Hollow Point 1169 0.0956 0 4.77
Winchestor Super X High Velocity Super Speed 37gr Hollow Point 1282 0.1104 0 5.42
Remington Golden Bullet Hyper Velocity 40gr Plated Round Nose 0 0 0 5.70
Aguila .22 Sub-Sonic Sniper 60gr Lead Round Nose 970 0.1 0 6.78
Aguila .22 Supermaximum Hyper Velocity 30gr Plated Hollow Point 1616 0.075 6.9448 9.97



Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:59:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TurboniumOxide:
When it isn't FTE or FTF jamming mine (CMMG) will do 3 inch groups low and right at 50 yards when compared to 223 in a 1 in 9 barrel.

I bought a 15-22 and tossed the conversion in a drawer, somewhere.

Never looked back.

send it back. i had one that would FTF(click) then FTE, almost constantly.

sent it in then they sent me a new one and its been awesome no problems in 300ish rounds.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:59:58 PM EDT
My 1x12 barrel shoots pop cans at fifty yards

My three 1x9 barrels shoot milk jugs at fifty yards

All iron sights

This is with 2 different Ciener kits
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