Can the United States win against Islamism? - Page 2

General » General Discussion

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Can the United States win against Islamism? (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:08:21 PM EDT

[#1]

Ability? Yes.

Will? Doubtful.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:08:44 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Not a chance in hell. We're the best recruiter they have. We have idiots in this country that actually want to go to war with the entire Muslim population of the world, not just the tiny fraction that already want us dead.

That 'tiny fraction' is estimated to be over 100 million strong. Not so 'tiny' really.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:09:31 PM EDT

[#3]

We could certainly count Israel as an ally so our numbers are boosted slightly and we would have one of the most battle-hardened, combat veteran filled armies in the world backing us. In the long run, Russia might join in as well if Putin can get passed his hard line commie thinking.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:13:07 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.

If your asking Can we win..... sounds like you have given up and are ready to die a grouse horrible death, which is what they ( the Extremist) will give you.

Bloencustoms is exactly correct, this is why we are on their land killing them there and allowing the stray bullets and Suicide bombs to thin their Gene Pool.

As for me Let them try to win, I will Die making sure their dead are barried in pigs guts and blood after being shot with bacon greased bullets.

Not at all. I'm simply asking because of the very apparent lack of will displayed by many of my fellow Americans and the absolute denial that our politicians treat the subject with. There is also the purely numerical factor to consider as well (discounting the use of nukes).

Edited for my spelling.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:14:01 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

Being Aztec was an ideology? Say what?
So because Buddhists don't hang out in one country you are capable of destroying them all?
Oh dear lord, comparing Nazism to Islamism boarders on retardation. For starters the Nazi party had a leader that could be killed, you can no more kill Muhammad as you could kill Christ. You seriously need to think before you post.

Thanks. You saved me the effort of explaining it to him. Apples and oranges, Rusted Ace.. Apples and Oranges...

No sorry you are both wrong.

The Aztec religion was wiped out by the Spanish. People of Aztec descent still exist, they just dont worship Quetzalcoatl anymore to a degree that it matters.

Afghanistan was a budhist country at one point, they converted or killed all the budhists. Thus in Afghanistan, the former major ruling religion is now gone.

National Socialism was an idea, not just embodied in hitler, but in other leaders as well, Franco, Mussolini, etc. Its pretty irrelevant now.

How many religions/ Idea systems existed in Pre-cultural revolution China that are now totally extinct?

How about the idea that slavery is acceptable? That idea has been pretty much erased from the south. Sure there are groups that hate blacks, but I never hear anyone saying to bring back the plantation system. That idea has been destroyed.

You can wipe out idea, you could even follow the muslims own rule book to do it, seems to work pretty well the places they take over.

ETA: On a humorous note, the idea that you can wipe out an idea, seems to have been wiped out. When Charlemagne cut down the Saxons holy tree and destroyed their religion forever he seemed to have thought you could kill an idea.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:16:05 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

yes, we could also team up with russia and china. throw in india as well just for good measure.

I have a feeling that in 25-50 years when the islamists completely take over Europe and institute sharia law we will see China as a great ally and friend to the US.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:18:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

Exactly. The PC crowd will be our end. Dhimmi state comes to mind.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:23:56 PM EDT

[#8]

What do you mean by win?

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:32:00 PM EDT

[#9]

In 2021 a man took his young son to NYC to see a ball game and visit that great city. They stopped at the memorial that remembered the horrible day of September 11th. The young boy looked to his father and asked what happened on that fateful day. The father explained that nineteen Moslem Terrorists took over four airplanes that day and crashed two of them into what was the two towers of the World Trade Center. The boy with a puzzled look on his face he asked: "Dad - what's a .........

The COC prevents me from finishing this piece of fiction. Unfortunately, we lack the will to show the child molesting mysoginists that the Moon God does not exsist and that the USA is their God.

We once had the will to destroy a peoples' God - ask the Japanese.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:33:32 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.

+1

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:34:20 PM EDT

[#11]

We could if we had a real president, and a population who did not think the world is just a big happy place. It also would not hurt if we had a couple of Curtis Lemay's and a Kerosene Billy Sherman , in a nut shell you can not win a war if your constantly worried about hurting the other guy's sensibilities.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:36:50 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

Well said

+1

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:38:33 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

Being Aztec was an ideology? Say what?
So because Buddhists don't hang out in one country you are capable of destroying them all?
Oh dear lord, comparing Nazism to Islamism boarders on retardation. For starters the Nazi party had a leader that could be killed, you can no more kill Muhammad as you could kill Christ. You seriously need to think before you post.

Thanks. You saved me the effort of explaining it to him. Apples and oranges, Rusted Ace.. Apples and Oranges...

No sorry you are both wrong.

The Aztec religion was wiped out by the Spanish. People of Aztec descent still exist, they just dont worship Quetzalcoatl anymore to a degree that it matters.

Afghanistan was a budhist country at one point, they converted or killed all the budhists. Thus in Afghanistan, the former major ruling religion is now gone.

National Socialism was an idea, not just embodied in hitler, but in other leaders as well, Franco, Mussolini, etc. Its pretty irrelevant now.

How many religions/ Idea systems existed in Pre-cultural revolution China that are now totally extinct?

How about the idea that slavery is acceptable? That idea has been pretty much erased from the south. Sure there are groups that hate blacks, but I never hear anyone saying to bring back the plantation system. That idea has been destroyed.

You can wipe out idea, you could even follow the muslims own rule book to do it, seems to work pretty well the places they take over.

ETA: On a humorous note, the idea that you can wipe out an idea, seems to have been wiped out. When Charlemagne cut down the Saxons holy tree and destroyed their religion forever he seemed to have thought you could kill an idea.

Gonna have to agree with rustedace he probably has more experience with people that actually practice this religion than anybody else on this board.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:43:39 PM EDT

[#14]

Can we stop islam...?

Hell yes.

Open up the southern border and let another 30 million or so Mexicans into the US. Most of them are practicing Catholics and they multiply like rabbits when they get here. They're strongly patriarchal, "familia" centered, and they're not hung up with our "White Guilt" or political correctness.

Ironic isn't it? That in the end Illegal aliens may be the only thing that saves our country.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:46:04 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I really don't know. If it came right down to it, a third of this country would take the Islamists side, to their own detriment. A lot of stupid in this country right now.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:46:52 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Can we stop islam...?

Hell yes.

Open up the southern border and let another 30 million or so Mexicans into the US. Most of them are practicing Catholics and they multiply like rabbits when they get here. They're strongly patriarchal, "familia" centered, and they're not hung up with our "White Guilt" or political correctness.

Ironic isn't it? That in the end Illegal aliens may be the only thing that saves our country.

damn can you imagine the blood bath that would ensue if islamic terrorists ever decided to be pissed off at mexico and started this jihad shit in that country? i would pay to watch that on PPV!

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:47:00 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

Being Aztec was an ideology? Say what?
So because Buddhists don't hang out in one country you are capable of destroying them all?
Oh dear lord, comparing Nazism to Islamism boarders on retardation. For starters the Nazi party had a leader that could be killed, you can no more kill Muhammad as you could kill Christ. You seriously need to think before you post.

Thanks. You saved me the effort of explaining it to him. Apples and oranges, Rusted Ace.. Apples and Oranges...

No sorry you are both wrong.

The Aztec religion was wiped out by the Spanish. People of Aztec descent still exist, they just dont worship Quetzalcoatl anymore to a degree that it matters.

Afghanistan was a budhist country at one point, they converted or killed all the budhists. Thus in Afghanistan, the former major ruling religion is now gone.

National Socialism was an idea, not just embodied in hitler, but in other leaders as well, Franco, Mussolini, etc. Its pretty irrelevant now.

How many religions/ Idea systems existed in Pre-cultural revolution China that are now totally extinct?

How about the idea that slavery is acceptable? That idea has been pretty much erased from the south. Sure there are groups that hate blacks, but I never hear anyone saying to bring back the plantation system. That idea has been destroyed.

You can wipe out idea, you could even follow the muslims own rule book to do it, seems to work pretty well the places they take over.

ETA: On a humorous note, the idea that you can wipe out an idea, seems to have been wiped out. When Charlemagne cut down the Saxons holy tree and destroyed their religion forever he seemed to have thought you could kill an idea.

This pretty much covers it. All all cases where a religion or idea "defeated" a previous religion or idea, the victor either wiped out the old ways or made life so miserable that the other, newer religion/idea was the better option. Scorched earth policies are about the only effective way, next to breeding the idea out of the populous.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:47:45 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

no, ace. Usually I find your posts insightful and well informed but this time you have gone off the reservation. Don't take any of this personally.

The Aztecs were isolated to a specific region and ethnicity. The cultural cleansing and assimilation was assisted by geography and distinct, easily defined ethnic characteristics.

Budhists are probably not very common in Afghanistan but I can assure you that they are proliferated to every single inhabited continent, spanning geographical, cultural and ethnic boundries.

Anybody under the impression that Hitler's ideas aren't alive and well and still racking up a body count, needs to lay off the peyote and wake the fuck up.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:48:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

True...because it is not a military fight. It is a battle of wills....a spiritual battle.

Posted: 9/8/2010 6:54:11 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

No. Our Commander-in-Chief cannot even bring himself to use the word "terrorist" (unless he is describing a Republican). How can you defeat an enemy if you refuse to acknowledge their existence?

Obama is here to appease the Muslims, try to make peace with them and the rest of the world. The State Department is filled with his cronies and he now has a good foot hold on the court system. What a mess he made in 2 years.

As for the people in the US, they are being swayed by the media and the context of how the media tells the story to sway people in a certain direction.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:01:08 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

no, ace. Usually I find your posts insightful and well informed but this time you have gone off the reservation. Don't take any of this personally.

The Aztecs were isolated to a specific region and ethnicity. The cultural cleansing and assimilation was assisted by geography and distinct, easily defined ethnic characteristics.

Budhists are probably not very common in Afghanistan but I can assure you that they are proliferated to every single inhabited continent, spanning geographical, cultural and ethnic boundries.

Anybody under the impression that Hitler's ideas aren't alive and well and still racking up a body count, needs to lay off the peyote and wake the fuck up.

I listed more examples above.

You admit that with the Aztecs it happened, if it can happen in limited example, it can happen in a larger example.

I never said it would be easy to wipe out an idea as big as Islam, I am just saying it is possible.

Ideas are not invincible, history is full of ideas being wiped out. Some on a large scale, some on a smaller scale, but ideas can be destroyed, it just depends on the will and effort of the people set upon destroying the ideas.

More examples:

The worship of Jupiter/other gods after the battle of Milvian bridge.
The worship of Baal after the the arrival of the Israelites in Canaan.
Christians in Japan, after the missionaries expulsion in the late 1500s

Sure in some of my examples in other nations the idea still exists, but it has been wiped out in the land of the people who wanted it wiped out, and from outside is no longer a threat. Do you think Imams in Afg worry about Buddhism coming back?

ETA: Why would I take it personally, the point of discussion boards is to discuss.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:02:42 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.

Right now we seem more concerned about upsetting them than we do about protecting our culture and way of life.

I hate to say it, but I think we lack the backbone. Maybe once we wake up and realize we're in a fight for our lives we'll figure out how to grow one, but chances are good it will be too late at that point.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:15:15 PM EDT

[#23]

The things that would be necessary, are things we, as a nation, would be unwilling/unable to do.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:19:03 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The things that would be necessary, are things we, as a nation, would be unwilling/unable to do.

I agree, for now. If the terrorists were to get more organized and really do something crazy that killed a hundred thousand or more innocent Americans, I think public opinion might change. Obviously, I hope it never comes to that, but I do not think America is immune to going all in for a war when the perceived threat is that high.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:20:38 PM EDT

[#25]

I think there is a difference between can or cannot and will or will not.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:28:42 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
In 2021 a man took his young son to NYC to see a ball game and visit that great city. They stopped at the memorial that remembered the horrible day of September 11th. The young boy looked to his father and asked what happened on that fateful day. The father explained that nineteen Moslem Terrorists took over four airplanes that day and crashed two of them into what was the two towers of the World Trade Center. The boy with a puzzled look on his face he asked: "Dad - what's a .........

The COC prevents me from finishing this piece of fiction. Unfortunately, we lack the will to show the child molesting mysoginists that the Moon God does not exsist and that the USA is their God.

We once had the will to destroy a peoples' God - ask the Japanese.

If by that you mean the emperor, he died in 1989 at the age of 87

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:29:15 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not a chance in hell. We're the best recruiter they have. We have idiots in this country that actually want to go to war with the entire Muslim population of the world, not just the tiny fraction that already want us dead.

That 'tiny fraction' is estimated to be over 100 million strong. Not so 'tiny' really.

Ok, source?

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:30:10 PM EDT

[#28]

We lose about 36 thousand people a year to the flu; and, including Iraq, Afghanistan, and 9/11, all un-routine events, perhaps 9 thousand over the last 2 decades to violent muslims.

Our priorities are fucked up. Yet some folks would propose salting the earth? with expensive military containment operations ala the Brits in Malaysia, or nukes? Don't suggest it's a matter of "stomach", it's a matter of not being a genocidal shitbag.
And operationally...how does one eliminate a historically entrenched religion from the internet era anyway? The same way the Pentagon fought Wikileaks?

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:30:15 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...

Yes, you can win against an ideology. However, to do so a nation must go completely Biblical: kill all the men, women, children, dogs, cats, goats, camels and everything else. If there is no one to remember the ideology then it is extinct.

The US does not have the will to do so. Thus I believe we will loose.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:36:34 PM EDT

[#30]

Some of you guys are fucking scary.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:38:27 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.

I disagree.

To defeat Islam we need only isolate them. No more Muslim immigration, no new mosques built on Western soil, no "Islamic education," etc. Recognize Islam for the threat it is to our society.

Isolate them and let them collapse under the weight of their cultural and religious failures. Let them have their barbarian cultures and societies, but we should have nothing to do with them.

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:45:58 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.

I disagree.

To defeat Islam we need only isolate them. No more Muslim immigration, no new mosques built on Western soil, no "Islamic education," etc. Recognize Islam for the threat it is to our society.

Isolate them and let them collapse under the weight of their cultural and religious failures. Let them have their barbarian cultures and societies, but we should have nothing to do with them.

How do you isolate the ones who are already American citizens? Deportation? Stripping them of citizenship? Concentration camps? Like I said, horrible things...

Posted: 9/8/2010 7:50:32 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

those where also periods of time that men had the balls to do what it took, we have no balls anymore, there for the answer is no

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:04:29 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
We lose about 36 thousand people a year to the flu; and, including Iraq, Afghanistan, and 9/11, all un-routine events, perhaps 9 thousand over the last 2 decades to violent muslims.

Our priorities are fucked up. Yet some folks would propose salting the earth? with expensive military containment operations ala the Brits in Malaysia, or nukes? Don't suggest it's a matter of "stomach", it's a matter of not being a genocidal shitbag.
And operationally...how does one eliminate a historically entrenched religion from the internet era anyway? The same way the Pentagon fought Wikileaks?

Wow. Way to downplay the deaths of Americans at the hands of Islamic terrorists.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:20:39 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...

Yes, you can win against an ideology. However, to do so a nation must go completely Biblical: kill all the men, women, children, dogs, cats, goats, camels and everything else. If there is no one to remember the ideology then it is extinct.

The US does not have the will to do so. Thus I believe we will loose.

Yea, sorry. I don't think it's really possible to wipe out this:

1 Indonesia
2 Pakistan
3 Bangladesh
4 Nigeria
5 Egypt
6 Turkey
7 Iran
8 Sudan
9 Algeria
10 Afghanistan
11 Morocco
12 Iraq
13 Malaysia
14 Saudi Arabia
15 Uzbekistan
16 Yemen
17 Syria
18 Kazakhstan
19 Niger
20 Burkina Faso
21 Mali
22 Senegal
23 Tunisia
24 Guinea
25 Somalia
26 Azerbaijan
27 Tajikistan
28 Sierra Leone
29 Libya
30 Jordan
31 United Arab Emirates
32 Kyrgyzstan
33 Turkmenistan
34 Chad
35 Lebanon
36 Kuwait
37 Albania
38 Mauritania
39 Oman
40 Kosovo
41 The Gambia
42 Bahrain
43 Comoros
44 Qatar
45 Djibouti
46 Brunei
47 Maldives

300,000,000 against 1,300,000,000. It won't go well for us.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:21:35 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not a chance in hell. We're the best recruiter they have. We have idiots in this country that actually want to go to war with the entire Muslim population of the world, not just the tiny fraction that already want us dead.

That 'tiny fraction' is estimated to be over 100 million strong. Not so 'tiny' really.

Ok, source?

Here is a source that even you might respect. The number is bullshit, but it was written by apologists so that is to be expected. They came up with a figure of 7% of the Muslim population being radicals. So at a minimum 91,000,000 radical Islamists worldwide can be extrapolated.

The reason it is bullshit is that it only counted as 'radical' those respondents who viewed the 9/11 attacks as 'completely justified'. The people who did the poll counted as 'moderate' those who responded that 9/11 was 'largely justified'. If you count those (as you should) the percentage jumps to 13.5%. The other options were 'unjustified', 'partly justified', and somewhat justified. Extrapolate from that what you will.

Apologist source

There have been a large number of polls done in regards to this topic. Avail yourself of Google and do some research.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:23:05 PM EDT

[#37]

Yes we can, but are not being smart about it.

Identify the enemy. Wahhabism. Almost to a person every Muslim I know hates the US supported idiocracy that is Saudi Arabia. They despise them more than we do. Wahhabis and the Saudis in particular are the ones who fund these screwed up radical Madrasas and Mosques in Pakistan and the west teaching the hate crap. If you ever see a radical sermon from a Mosque in the UK...5 will get you 10 it will be in the end tied back to the Saudi Wahabbists funding and teachings.

I see many people wish to adopt "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy" strategy. That won't win anything.

PS. Most Muslims ask me how we support the Saudi's so much if we really are against radical Islam.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:27:33 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

I like the way you think.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:35:37 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...

Yes, you can win against an ideology. However, to do so a nation must go completely Biblical: kill all the men, women, children, dogs, cats, goats, camels and everything else. If there is no one to remember the ideology then it is extinct.

The US does not have the will to do so. Thus I believe we will loose.

Yea, sorry. I don't think it's really possible to wipe out this:

1 Indonesia
2 Pakistan
3 Bangladesh
4 Nigeria
5 Egypt
6 Turkey
7 Iran
8 Sudan
9 Algeria
10 Afghanistan
11 Morocco
12 Iraq
13 Malaysia
14 Saudi Arabia
15 Uzbekistan
16 Yemen
17 Syria
18 Kazakhstan
19 Niger
20 Burkina Faso
21 Mali
22 Senegal
23 Tunisia
24 Guinea
25 Somalia
26 Azerbaijan
27 Tajikistan
28 Sierra Leone
29 Libya
30 Jordan
31 United Arab Emirates
32 Kyrgyzstan
33 Turkmenistan
34 Chad
35 Lebanon
36 Kuwait
37 Albania
38 Mauritania
39 Oman
40 Kosovo
41 The Gambia
42 Bahrain
43 Comoros
44 Qatar
45 Djibouti
46 Brunei
47 Maldives

300,000,000 against 1,300,000,000. It won't go well for us.

You get 2 billion screaming Chinese communists on your side and anything can be done. Hell you could make a ladder of people to the moon.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:40:40 PM EDT

[#40]

We can win, but not with the current mentality and current leadership in the White House. We would have to be a hundred times as brutal than they are...

I think Sean Connery called it "The Chicago Way".

The war against global Jihad is not like Desert Storm, where we rolled over the Iraqi Army in Kuwait in 100 hours; it would be more like the Crusades, where it will keep going for decades, perhaps more than one generation; sadly, we are more interested in knowing why Bret Favre hasn't retired or what's Cindy Lohan's favorite color of underwear than to really win in Afghanistan.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:48:14 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...

Yes, you can win against an ideology. However, to do so a nation must go completely Biblical: kill all the men, women, children, dogs, cats, goats, camels and everything else. If there is no one to remember the ideology then it is extinct.

The US does not have the will to do so. Thus I believe we will loose.

Yea, sorry. I don't think it's really possible to wipe out this:

Snip
300,000,000 against 1,300,000,000. It won't go well for us.

You get 2 billion screaming Chinese communists on your side and anything can be done. Hell you could make a ladder of people to the moon.

Unfortunately, the Chinese have other plans, so you can add them to the 1,300,000,000 pissed off muslims.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:51:27 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

Being Aztec was an ideology? Say what?
So because Buddhists don't hang out in one country you are capable of destroying them all?
Oh dear lord, comparing Nazism to Islamism boarders on retardation. For starters the Nazi party had a leader that could be killed, you can no more kill Muhammad as you could kill Christ. You seriously need to think before you post.

Thanks. You saved me the effort of explaining it to him. Apples and oranges, Rusted Ace.. Apples and Oranges...

No sorry you are both wrong.

The Aztec religion was wiped out by the Spanish. People of Aztec descent still exist, they just dont worship Quetzalcoatl anymore to a degree that it matters.

Afghanistan was a budhist country at one point, they converted or killed all the budhists. Thus in Afghanistan, the former major ruling religion is now gone.

National Socialism was an idea, not just embodied in hitler, but in other leaders as well, Franco, Mussolini, etc. Its pretty irrelevant now.

How many religions/ Idea systems existed in Pre-cultural revolution China that are now totally extinct?

How about the idea that slavery is acceptable? That idea has been pretty much erased from the south. Sure there are groups that hate blacks, but I never hear anyone saying to bring back the plantation system. That idea has been destroyed.

You can wipe out idea, you could even follow the muslims own rule book to do it, seems to work pretty well the places they take over.

ETA: On a humorous note, the idea that you can wipe out an idea, seems to have been wiped out. When Charlemagne cut down the Saxons holy tree and destroyed their religion forever he seemed to have thought you could kill an idea.

I agree with you, but i thought those two were Fascist, not Nazis

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:52:49 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
*snip*

You get 2 billion screaming Chinese communists on your side and anything can be done. Hell you could make a ladder of people to the moon.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:55:30 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Given that Islamists comprise about 10-15% of the total 1.3 billion Muslims around the world (estimated), can we The United States with a male 15-65 population of about 102,000,000 win? Specifically, can we win using the current strategy of counter insurgency?
The US had 'Fit for military service' a combined male and female number of 118,600,000 (as of 2008). We have approximately 2,900,000 active and reserve military members. We have a total population of about 310,000,000 to draw from.
Our enemies have 100,000,000-150,000,000+ dedicated Islamists and a potential population of 1.3 billion to draw from (a large percentage of which are sympathizers).
Can we win? How?

Yes, we can win - provided we (a) stick it out , long term, (b) continue to focus on hearts & minds/COIN, in order to avoid enlarging the enemy population beyond it's current size, and (c) keep our chuckle-heads & idiots (like Paster Book-burner, or the 'kill-em-all/bomb-Mecca-crowd) off the news & as buried under the carpet as we can...
We cannot, however, win a war against 'All Islam' - nor should we try....

P.S. The radicals are only about 1%. The sympathetic/supportive population, at most, might hit 10%.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:56:34 PM EDT

[#45]

Not if we keep pandering to muslims like we are doing now .

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:57:28 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Not if we keep pandering to muslims like we are doing now .

What you call 'pandering' is essential to winning the war...

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:57:36 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.

Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

This is sig line material.

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:58:20 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Given that Islamists comprise about 10-15% of the total 1.3 billion Muslims around the world (estimated), can we The United States with a male 15-65 population of about 102,000,000 win? Specifically, can we win using the current strategy of counter insurgency?

The US had 'Fit for military service' a combined male and female number of 118,600,000 (as of 2008). We have approximately 2,900,000 active and reserve military members. We have a total population of about 310,000,000 to draw from.

Our enemies have 100,000,000-150,000,000+ dedicated Islamists and a potential population of 1.3 billion to draw from (a large percentage of which are sympathizers).

Can we win? How?

Yes, we can win - provided we (a) stick it out , long term, (b) continue to focus on hearts & minds/COIN, in order to avoid enlarging the enemy population beyond it's current size, and (c) keep our chuckle-heads & idiots (like Paster Book-burner, or the 'kill-em-all/bomb-Mecca-crowd) off the news & as buried under the carpet as we can...

We cannot, however, win a war against 'All Islam' - nor should we try....

P.S. The radicals are only about 1%. The sympathetic/supportive population, at most, might hit 10%.

this

Posted: 9/8/2010 9:00:18 PM EDT

[#49]

What's next? Asking Hitler to come back so he can bring "the final solution" to the Islam problem?

Posted: 9/8/2010 9:00:38 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Islamism?

a fundamentalist Islamic revivalist movement generally characterized by moral conservatism and the literal interpretation of the Koran and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all aspects of life...In other words, Islamofascists, Islamic fundamentalists, etc....

Ah, thanks for the fill in.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Can the United States win against Islamism? (Page 2 of 4)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us