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Posted: 9/8/2010 9:39:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:02:31 AM EDT by cyrus-the-virus]
Is buying a new car still a bad idea if you plan to drive it till the wheels fall off?

just wondering...
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:40:22 AM EDT
Buying a car is NOT an investment.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:40:28 AM EDT
I dunno, you gonna go buy a cruze?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:40:34 AM EDT
Cars aren't investments. They're purchases.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:41:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
Cars aren't investments. They're purchases.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:41:41 AM EDT
Investment equals greater return than what you put into it...cars, like boats, are money pits
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:41:51 AM EDT
You'll get the most bang for your buck by driving a new car into the ground.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:42:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 9:42:58 AM EDT by Miles_Urbanus]
The only cars that are investments are the super rare/expensive/collectible ones.

Cars are for getting you around. Don't expect to make much money when you sell it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:43:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By n0zzle:
You'll get the most bang for your buck by driving a new3 year old car into the ground.


Fixed it.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:44:06 AM EDT
buying a low mileage 3 year old car and driving the wheels off of it.......that's a way to limit the "loss" on your "investment"
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:44:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.

Sure it is.

It's an investment in being sure you're able to get from point A to point B.
It's an investment in not having to wrench on a piece of shit every weekend, or pay someone else to.
It's an investment in your comfort.

Return on investment is your quality of life.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:45:34 AM EDT
Cheapest way to do it in raw dollars and cents? Probably not.

Decent approach when you add up a lot of hard-to-quantify factors (known history, convenience, reliability, new car smell)? Potentially.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:45:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By n0zzle:
You'll get the most bang for your buck by driving a new car into the ground.

I agree with this, but only on vehicles that are modestly priced to begin with.
Compact cars, small trucks, maybe some sedans. The big money stuff seems wiser to buy with about 20K on em.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:46:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rumrunner358:
I dunno, you gonna go buy a cruze?

Now that would be a bad investment.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:47:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Claybrook:
Originally Posted By n0zzle:
You'll get the most bang for your buck by driving a new3 year old car into the ground.


Fixed it.



Good point.

However, you never really know how well the vehicle was treated before your purchase. Buyer beware....
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:47:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Claybrook:
Originally Posted By n0zzle:
You'll get the most bang for your buck by driving a new3 year old car into the ground.


Fixed it.



Not really. You might save a few thousand dollars on the purchase price but you lose the warranty and those 3 years of service. Buying used versus buying new doesn't save you a significant amount when you drive it until it start costing you more than it would to buy something else.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:47:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiver:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.




Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:48:14 AM EDT
Have less then 15K invested in this car.
Have been offered over 40k and passed.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:48:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:
The only cars that are investments are the super rare/expensive/collectible ones.

Cars are for getting you around. Don't expect to make much anything whatsoever money when you sell it.


Fixed.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:48:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.

Sure it is.

It's an investment in being sure you're able to get from point A to point B.
It's an investment in not having to wrench on a piece of shit every weekend, or pay someone else to.
It's an investment in your comfort.

Return on investment is your quality of life.




you could say the same thing for hookers and blow.

"INVEST" in a new car is the biggest crock out there.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:48:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.

Sure it is.

It's an investment in being sure you're able to get from point A to point B.
It's an investment in not having to wrench on a piece of shit every weekend, or pay someone else to.
It's an investment in your comfort.

Return on investment is your quality of life.


None of those are investments. They are expenditures.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:48:42 AM EDT
Paid my used car off 18 months ago. Can't tell you how nice it is. I was thinking I would buy another car with 20,000 miles on it because I liked driving a newer one. I'm really likeing this not paying anything thing.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:49:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AndrewS:
Originally Posted By Claybrook:
Originally Posted By n0zzle:
You'll get the most bang for your buck by driving a new3 year old car into the ground.


Fixed it.



Not really. You might save a few thousand dollars on the purchase price but you lose the warranty and those 3 years of service. Buying used versus buying new doesn't save you a significant amount when you drive it until it start costing you more than it would to buy something else.

And you don't know what's happened in that time.
Someone could have filled the tank with diesel, or have forgotten to add oil after an oil change.
Could have had some sort of fender bender that went unreported but wasn't fixed properly.
Who knows?


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:49:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 9:50:39 AM EDT by piccolo]
Originally Posted By UBB:
Have less then 15K invested in this car.
Have been offered over 40k and passed.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c46/Unclebillybonz/Carbytheriver-1.jpg



That is the exception to the rule, OTOH,it isn't a daily driver unless you are out of your pea pickin' little squash.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:50:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By fiver:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.







How is it not?



1. In finance, the purchase of a financial product or other item of value with an expectation of favorable future returns. In general terms, investment means the use money in the hope of making more money.

2. In business, the purchase by a producer of a physical good, such as durable equipment or inventory, in the hope of improving future business.



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:51:47 AM EDT
Holding things equal, two of the same cars are essentially the same price(value) at the same mileage. ie. a Ford xmachine at 40,000 miles is going to be about the same price as another Ford xmachine with 40,000 miles on it.

But if you buy new, you have paid the "new car fee" for the same vehicle when it gets to 40,000 miles. So you have lost money by buying a vehicle new.

Let someone else pay the "new car fee" and buy their car for it's value at a given mileage.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:52:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.

Sure it is.

It's an investment in being sure you're able to get from point A to point B.
It's an investment in not having to wrench on a piece of shit every weekend, or pay someone else to.
It's an investment in your comfort.

Return on investment is your quality of life.


You're spnding money to save yourself time and work.

Time = money. Work = money.

You are, in essence, spending a lot of money to save yourself a little money.

Your discomfort has a value. Most people are not willing to be uncomfortable. And so they pay for comfort. By not paying for comfort, you reap benefits from the market. The obvious examples in this discussion are 3-4 year old cars.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:52:22 AM EDT
Depends on your needs/wants.

I'm more the kind of guy that will buy a loaded used rig with cash and dump a couple grand into it every 1-4 years. Cheaper than a car payment and "they don't build them like they used to".

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:53:59 AM EDT
If its a car to get you to and from work, that I see as an investment...its being used to make you money, couldn't make money without it.

If its a fun car that you keep in the garage and only take it out on weekends to go get ice cream, that's an expenditure.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:54:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By fiver:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.







How is it not?



1. In finance, the purchase of a financial product or other item of value with an expectation of favorable future returns. In general terms, investment means the use money in the hope of making more money.

2. In business, the purchase by a producer of a physical good, such as durable equipment or inventory, in the hope of improving future business.



I'll grant you #2, if we're not talking about somebody's personal vehicle. #1 is definitely out, because in terms of dollars, you're losing money no matter what you buy.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:55:02 AM EDT
Of course not! Let some other sucker pay down the instant depreciation that happens when the car hits the street.

You may be able to make an argument to the opposite. If you bought a new car with the intention of selling it after 3 years you would have a 3 year old car to sell instead of a 5 or 6 year old car, but the higher resale value will not make up for the rapid depreciation after the initial purchase.

Cars are assets, not investments.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:55:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Buying a car is NOT an investment.

Sure it is.

It's an investment in being sure you're able to get from point A to point B.
It's an investment in not having to wrench on a piece of shit every weekend, or pay someone else to.
It's an investment in your comfort.

Return on investment is your quality of life.


You're spnding money to save yourself time and work.

Time = money. Work = money.

You are, in essence, spending a lot of money to save yourself a little money.

Your discomfort has a value. Most people are not willing to be uncomfortable. And so they pay for comfort. By not paying for comfort, you reap benefits from the market. The obvious examples in this discussion are 3-4 year old cars.

That depends on the vehicle, as some used cars cost just as much as new.
You can also get a more favorable interest rate as well any incentives and rebates.
And there is the warranty which has (potentially) considerable value itself.

Like I say, I wouldn't likely buy a loaded Lexus brand new...
but I woulnd't buy a Honda Fit used. It depends on the vehicle.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:58:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:08:40 AM EDT by speedracer422]
A new car that you plan to drive everyday is NOT an investment.


Every great once in a while if the market is crazy and the stars align, you might be able to buy a new car, drive it for a couple years and sell it for what you paid for it.


VERY RARELY DOES THAT HAPPEN.

But, I am personally in that position


I bought a truck in 2008 when gas was $4/gal. The manufacturer had a $2500 rebate, plus $5k of dealer cash (unadvertised), plus the markup and holdback.


Sticker price was $26,6k I paid $17,4k...
...now, the used market is commanding high prices; i can sell my truck, w/ 30k miles on it for ~$19k and it would be a fair market Private Party price in KBB "Good Condition"



Speed
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:58:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beltfed:
If its a car to get you to and from work, that I see as an investment...its being used to make you money, couldn't make money without it.

If its a fun car that you keep in the garage and only take it out on weekends to go get ice cream, that's an expenditure.


Yes, but if the goal is to get to work, the bar is set pretty low. Pretty much any shitbox can pull that off.

Buying a new car is (almost always) a luxury. I really don't understand why people feel the need to rationalize it by loosening the definition of investment. There is nothing wrong with wanting a brand new car - at ALL. If you want one for whatever subjective reason you an conjure, then just buy one already. No big deal.

The only time I argue over it, is if the purchaser insists that it makes sense in pure dollar terms, or calls something that loses an assload of money a "good investment".
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:59:03 AM EDT
A car is an investment. It enables you to drive to work and make money. We have a hi-lo at work... same principle. While, by itself, it does not generate revenue, it is a necessary cost of doing business.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:01:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:01:24 AM EDT by gonzo_beyondo]

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:



1. In finance, the purchase of a financial product or other item of value with an expectation of favorable future returns. In general terms, investment means the use money in the hope of making more money.

2. In business, the purchase by a producer of a physical good, such as durable equipment or inventory, in the hope of improving future business.


I'll grant you #2, if we're not talking about somebody's personal vehicle. #1 is definitely out, because in terms of dollars, you're losing money no matter what you buy.


Well your personal vehicle carries you to work, where you "produce" whatever you do for your wages.
Just because you make goods or w/e for somebody else,
the reliability (and thus quality) of your vehicle does directly impact how late you are for "business"
or days missed due to stranded broken down bullshit or days spent waiting at the dealership.

You guys can look at it as an expenditure, you aren't wrong in doing so...
but I believe buying the most reliable car with these factors in mind is investing in a trouble-free future.
I expect to save money in the long run by doing so. It's a gamble, like all investments.


The tranny could fall out of it at 60K leaving me the biggest loser. (knock on wood it don't though)

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:02:00 AM EDT
buying a new car is the easest way to lose 10,000 in 1 year
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:02:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Armin_Tanzarian:
A car is an investment. It enables you to drive to work and make money. We have a hi-lo at work... same principle. While, by itself, it does not generate revenue, it is a necessary cost of doing business.

If that's your only goal (and it seldom is, people are never 100% honest about this), your "investment" shouldn't cost much more than about $2,000.

If you pay more than that (and I sure as hell do!), it's because you want something more than just 4 wheels and the ability to move under it's own power.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:03:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By Beltfed:
If its a car to get you to and from work, that I see as an investment...its being used to make you money, couldn't make money without it.

If its a fun car that you keep in the garage and only take it out on weekends to go get ice cream, that's an expenditure.


Yes, but if the goal is to get to work, the bar is set pretty low. Pretty much any shitbox can pull that off.

Buying a new car is (almost always) a luxury. I really don't understand why people feel the need to rationalize it by loosening the definition of investment. There is nothing wrong with wanting a brand new car - at ALL. If you want one for whatever subjective reason you an conjure, then just buy one already. No big deal.

The only time I argue over it, is if the purchaser insists that it makes sense in pure dollar terms, or calls something that loses an assload of money a "good investment".

When the new car is cheaper than the used car, you'd be fucking retarded to buy it used.

That isn't always the case... but like I say, it depends on the vehicle.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:03:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:04:37 AM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
Clark Howard is actually saying that now may be a good time to buy new instead of gently used as he normally recommends. The used market is hot as hell, and new cars are sitting on the lots untouched. For some cars, a 3-year-old model might be just a little cheaper than a brand new one. In that case, why not just buy new?

Depends on the model you're looking to buy, of course.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:04:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
buying a new car is the easest way to lose 10,000 in 1 year

Right. And if the car is a $13K Honda Fit?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:04:36 AM EDT
putting aside that it won't be an investment, is buying a new car a wise use of money, it depends on what kind of car it is. Less expensive cars like camrys and civics hold their value percentage wise fairly well, they wouldn't be a bad buy new.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:05:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Is buying a new car still a bad idea if you plan to drive it till the wheels fall off?

just wondering...

Depends on whether you're financing it or paying cash.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:06:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:07:08 AM EDT by Beltfed]

Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
buying a new car is the easest way to lose 10,000 in 1 year

I've bought more than my share of new cars and have never lost $10k in one year.

Actually, these days new cars is a good way to go because of how the inflated the used car market happens to be. The used cars cost more than they normally do and if you're not paying cash, the interest rates are higher.



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:06:40 AM EDT
First of all, don't use the word "investment" That implies an expected monetary RON. It's kind of like Obama calling the Pork Stimulus an "investment". It just sounds stupid.



Now, putting that aside, I believe that if you want to buy a Toyota or Honda, then yes, your best deal will be a new car.

It all depends upon what kind of purchase price and financing deal you can swing.

The reason I said only Toyota and Honda, is that the huge cult following and a legendary reputation for never wearing out. This translates into very high resale values that are far in excess of their actual worth. You can use this to your advantage.

Assuming you absolutely have to buy a new car, best bet is to buy a new Toyota/Honda, drive it for 5 years/100,000 miles, then pawn off your troubles to some sucker for 75% of what you paid for it. Just tell the sucker "Everybody knows a Corolla will go 300,000 miles without any maintenance at all"

A remarkably high percentage of people will believe this, and you will get 5 years of trouble free and nearly expense free driving out of the deal.

Financially, your best rout would be to go with a used Non-Honda/Toyota which has depreciated, but the method I outlined above gives you a new warranty and is more certain.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:07:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beltfed:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
buying a new car is the easest way to lose 10,000 in 1 year

I've bought more than my share of new cars and have never lost $10k in one year.

Actually, these days new cars is a good way to go because of how the inflated used car market happens to be. The used cars cost more than they normally do and if you're not paying cash, the interest rates are higher.


I don't think people are paying much attention to the market.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:08:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
First of all, don't use the word "investment" That implies an expected monetary RON. It's kind of like Obama calling the Pork Stimulus an "investment". It just sounds stupid.


Uh, I think you mean ROI
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:08:10 AM EDT
I have purchased many new vehicles of all types and GVW's. It can certainly make you feeeeel good.

HOWEVER, I have since learned that it is a much more intelligent financial decision to let another guy be the first owner, let him take the big hit on the vehicle's massive initial depreciation, and then move in and get a near-new vehicle for a bargain.

Caveats apply, and you do need to know prices, know how to shop, how to drive a bargain in your favor, and most importantly know how to do your own mechanical inspection.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:08:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:



1. In finance, the purchase of a financial product or other item of value with an expectation of favorable future returns. In general terms, investment means the use money in the hope of making more money.

2. In business, the purchase by a producer of a physical good, such as durable equipment or inventory, in the hope of improving future business.


I'll grant you #2, if we're not talking about somebody's personal vehicle. #1 is definitely out, because in terms of dollars, you're losing money no matter what you buy.


Well your personal vehicle carries you to work, where you "produce" whatever you do for your wages.
Just because you make goods or w/e for somebody else,
the reliability (and thus quality) of your vehicle does directly impact how late you are for "business"
or days missed due to stranded broken down bullshit or days spent waiting at the dealership.

You guys can look at it as an expenditure, you aren't wrong in doing so...
but I believe buying the most reliable car with these factors in mind is investing in a trouble-free future.
I expect to save money in the long run by doing so. It's a gamble, like all investments.


The tranny could fall out of it at 60K leaving me the biggest loser. (knock on wood it don't though)


If it's reliability you're after, where you absolutely CAN NOT have a down vehicle under any circumstances, then it's prudent to pick up another ~$2,000 vehicle and keep it on standby.

If you buy a $25,000 brand new car, you're not investing in anything other than your happiness. Rationalize it all you want, but for less than $10,000 you can have two cars that WILL get you back and forth to work, no matter what.

You won't look good doing it, and you're not going to impress anybody, but you'll get there. But you and I both know "getting to work" is only part of it. If I buy a $60,000 "investment" BMW to get to work, I'm lying to myself.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:09:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
buying a new car is the easest way to lose 10,000 in 1 year


I wish, I'd buy a used honda civic for half price.
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