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Unpossible. The NRA never does anything. Too bad the case is flawed. The plaintiff in the case is former military. The Judges can find in his favor with the stipulation that the age limit is 18 for current or past military members only. I'm wondering what case SAF or another group brought that NRA is trying to derail and over take this time... |
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Unpossible. The NRA never does anything. Too bad the case is flawed. The plaintiff in the case is former military. The Judges can find in his favor with the stipulation that the age limit is 18 for current or past military members only. I'm wondering what case SAF or another group brought that NRA is trying to derail and over take this time... JROTC is not military. From Wikipedia: The Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC) is a Federal program sponsored by the United States Armed Forces in high schools across the United States. The program was originally created as part of the National Defense Act of 1916 and later expanded under the 1964 ROTC Vitalization Act. |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY ETA: If I ever win the lottery I'm going to take a baseball bat, have somebody carve the 9th and 10th Amendments into it, and then drive around the country beating people with it. |
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Unpossible. The NRA never does anything. Too bad the case is flawed. The plaintiff in the case is former military. The Judges can find in his favor with the stipulation that the age limit is 18 for current or past military members only. I'm wondering what case SAF or another group brought that NRA is trying to derail and over take this time... JROTC is not military. From Wikipedia: The Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC) is a Federal program sponsored by the United States Armed Forces in high schools across the United States. The program was originally created as part of the National Defense Act of 1916 and later expanded under the 1964 ROTC Vitalization Act. This. My 14 yr old daughter is JROTC. I don't remember the part about her being military. I guess I could have missed that document though. |
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Got my first HG at 18, just couldn't buy a new one at a fun store until 21.
Basically you had to buy one via private sale. |
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If you are old enough to fight and die for your Country then you should be old enough to buy a firearm and enjoy a beer if you want.! Fuckin A! |
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http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=14212&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter made hot Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Wow, I seriously didn't think they had the balls for that. There should only be one age of majority, 18 or 21, it can't be either or, here and there on various issues. |
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They should challenge NFA of 1934
There's your trouble. (like that will ever happen) |
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It is about FUCKIN TIME!! If this actually goes somewhere that would be awesome... mostly cause i fall in that age range
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I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. It Will Not Happen |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike You have no constitutional rights to do anything, anything at all. The Constitution sets limits on what government can do, it does *not* enumerate all the rights we have. The sooner more people get this, the better. Find me where in the Constitution you are "granted" the right to travel, the right to watch television, the right to read, the right to get married, the right to raise your kids, the right to mow your lawn, etc., etc. 100% correct. :ahem: rights not enumerated |
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As I have noted before in numerous other NRA-bashing threads: It doesn't matter what the NRA does, the bashers will always find something to bitch about.
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Quoted: Quoted: Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike Unless the 18th amendment was re-enacted in the last hour, yes you do. |
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I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. It Will Not Happen They already did that once |
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I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. It Will Not Happen They already did that once Half assed, and not surprisingly, it failed. I think Gura or Levy will go after it. |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike That's not even part of the equation. There's no Federal drinking age law. They're all State laws which are probably within the enumerated or implied powers of all 50 States according to their respective constitutions. It only seems like a Federal law because the Federal government successfully pressured the States into adopting such laws. But there's nothing really stopping any or all of the States from lowering that age to 18 or 16 or 6 months. Secondly, the Constitution does not grant rights. It grants powers. To the government. Saying that drinking can be regulated by the Feds simply because there's nothing that specifically says they can't implies that the Federal government can do anything it wants unless the Constitution says it can't. This is exactly OPPOSITE of the way the document is written. You could justify virtually any Federal action with such a ridiculous statement. Oh, two children per household limit? Constitutional. You don't have an enumerated right to procreate, after all. Require travel permits for people to leave their town/county of residence? Just fine. No constitutional right to travel, you know. eta: Nevermind, I guess this was already covered. |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike That's not even part of the equation. There's no Federal drinking age law. They're all State laws which are probably within the enumerated or implied powers of all 50 States according to their respective constitutions. It only seems like a Federal law because the Federal government successfully pressured the States into adopting such laws. But there's nothing really stopping any or all of the States from lowering that age to 18 or 16 or 6 months. Secondly, the Constitution does not grant rights. It grants powers. To the government. Saying that drinking can be regulated by the Feds simply because there's nothing that specifically says they can't implies that the Federal government can do anything it wants unless the Constitution says it can't. This is exactly OPPOSITE of the way the document is written. You could justify virtually any Federal action with such a ridiculous statement. Oh, two children per household limit? Constitutional. You don't have an enumerated right to procreate, after all. Require travel permits for people to leave their town/county of residence? Just fine. No constitutional right to travel, you know. eta: Nevermind, I guess this was already covered. I have given up on trying to explain that here. |
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I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. It Will Not Happen They already did that once Half assed, and not surprisingly, it failed. I think Gura or Levy will go after it. They Can Try Again |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike That's not even part of the equation. There's no Federal drinking age law. They're all State laws which are probably within the enumerated or implied powers of all 50 States according to their respective constitutions. It only seems like a Federal law because the Federal government successfully pressured the States into adopting such laws. But there's nothing really stopping any or all of the States from lowering that age to 18 or 16 or 6 months. Secondly, the Constitution does not grant rights. It grants powers. To the government. Saying that drinking can be regulated by the Feds simply because there's nothing that specifically says they can't implies that the Federal government can do anything it wants unless the Constitution says it can't. This is exactly OPPOSITE of the way the document is written. You could justify virtually any Federal action with such a ridiculous statement. Oh, two children per household limit? Constitutional. You don't have an enumerated right to procreate, after all. Require travel permits for people to leave their town/county of residence? Just fine. No constitutional right to travel, you know. eta: Nevermind, I guess this was already covered. I have given up on trying to explain that here. Almost there myself......almost......one more shot right quick....... |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike You have no constitutional rights to do anything, anything at all. The Constitution sets limits on what government can do, it does *not* enumerate all the rights we have. The sooner more people get this, the better. Find me where in the Constitution you are "granted" the right to travel, the right to watch television, the right to read, the right to get married, the right to raise your kids, the right to mow your lawn, etc., etc. 100% correct. :ahem: rights not enumerated :ahem: *Enumerated.* Enumerated. *Not* granted; enumerated. ETA: Without delving into a creationism v evolution thing, can we accept a couple things? Namely these arguments: 1) A Creator can refer to either a supreme deity, or to the forces of evolution and the universe and its physical laws as we understand them. 2) The American Declaration of Independence can be said to be a founding document of our nation, embodying the principles used in our nation's forming and initial organization. If we can accpet these two things, then this quote here should set the record pretty straight about whether the Constitution grants any rights: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. It Will Not Happen They already did that once Half assed, and not surprisingly, it failed. I think Gura or Levy will go after it. They Can Try Again Actually, from what I just read, they didn't do shit except ask SCOTUS to review it and SCOTUS declined. I was thinking about a different case earlier. It also looks like the NRA claims it authored the sections of law which prohibit "armor piercing" ammunition from being made for non government or non export sale. Motherfuckers..... http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=25&issue=005 |
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*fingers crossed* This. I'm a law abiding 20 year old, with a carry permit, that can legally carry a handgun, concealled or otherwise, with a round in the chamber..... ,,,,but I can't buy ammo. I'd be even more for this if my 21st wasn't next Wednesday. |
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in the grand scheme of things, this law doesn't really make a damned difference... what? it can make the difference between life and death for a 20 year old living in a high crime area. 18 year olds can still buy handguns. just not from an FFL. Yeah +1 So many seem to forget this. Maybe they weren't into guns before 21. I was, and had plenty of handguns - legally. |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike You have no constitutional rights to do anything, anything at all. The Constitution sets limits on what government can do, it does *not* enumerate all the rights we have. The sooner more people get this, the better. Find me where in the Constitution you are "granted" the right to travel, the right to watch television, the right to read, the right to get married, the right to raise your kids, the right to mow your lawn, etc., etc. Well put! As to the purchase age, if handgun purchase age gets reduced to 18, then that opens the door wide for striking down the SBR/SBS portion of the NFA, since there would no longer be any legitimate reason for them. The only thing the short barrel restrictions currently do is prevent 18 year olds from buying concealable weapons. If an 18yo can buy handguns, then the short barrel restrictions no longer serve a purpose. Not quite. Congress explicitly removed handguns from the NFA and explicitly added short barreled rifles to the final bill draft I bet SCOTUS upholds that But beyond concealability, what is the difference between a pistol caliber SBR (or rifle caliber pistol) that warrants the distinction? Folding stocks are legal on rifles. A 10" bbl SBR with a folding stock is no less easily concealed than a 10" bbl handgun. Many laws don't make sense. SBR laws are an example of this. |
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in the grand scheme of things, this law doesn't really make a damned difference... what? it can make the difference between life and death for a 20 year old living in a high crime area. 18 year olds can still buy handguns. just not from an FFL. Yeah +1 So many seem to forget this. Maybe they weren't into guns before 21. I was, and had plenty of handguns - legally. Actually it depends on state and local laws whether someone can buy a handgun at 18 or 19 or 20 or possess one even |
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in the grand scheme of things, this law doesn't really make a damned difference... what? it can make the difference between life and death for a 20 year old living in a high crime area. 18 year olds can still buy handguns. just not from an FFL. Yeah +1 So many seem to forget this. Maybe they weren't into guns before 21. I was, and had plenty of handguns - legally. Actually it depends on state and local laws whether someone can buy a handgun at 18 or 19 or 20 or possess one even You are correct, but the vast majority of states allow purchase and possession at 18. I know there is some exemptions. |
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If you are old enough to fight and die for your Country then you should be old enough to buy a firearm and enjoy a beer if you want.! +10000 /thread |
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Quoted: Quoted: *fingers crossed* This. I'm a law abiding 20 year old, with a carry permit, that can legally carry a handgun, concealled or otherwise, with a round in the chamber..... ,,,,but I can't buy ammo. I'd be even more for this if my 21st wasn't next Wednesday. You can't? I got my USP .45F at 19. The gunstore that I picked it out at and my dad bought it at (and then I gave my dad $650) would always ask if the .45 I was buying was for a carbine. |
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Isn't the Bill of Rights attached to the Constitution, which grants us certain rights? Not trying to stir shit, just curious how you can say that we aren't given any rights by the Constitution, but then the Bill of Rights which is attached to it, grants us rights such as the right to bear arms, free speech, etc. Or am I missing something? As for the 21 age limit for handgun purchases...I wouldn't care either way if they kept it or changed it to 18. I just wish the NRA would get off it's ass and start attacking some of the bullshit anti-gun lobbying that goes on in California on a daily basis. The Constitution, and the Bill of rights are both restrictions on government. The Bill of rights does not grant any rights, it acknowledges pre-existing rights, it simply tells the government that those are it's limits, it can not pass any laws in those areas because you have pre-existing rights. Re Read it yourself, note that the second amendment for example says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep, and bear arms shall not be infringed" Note how it says shall not be infringed, it's telling the government that this area is off limits, it does not say "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the people are granted the right to keep and bear arms", see the difference? One is acknowledging a right, while the other is granting it. It's not just semantics a right granted by government isn't really a right, it's a permission, and that can be revoked later, while a pre-existing right is just that a right, the government did not grant it, so the government cannot take it away. Again the constitution, and the Bill Of Rights set limits on the government, if the government is not specifically authorized to do something than it can't, as per the tenth amendment. |
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I believe that if you wear the uniform and are empowered with the responsibilities which it entails, well you should be allowed to both drink and buy a handgun whatever age you are. The responsibilities and expectations of service members is astranomical in many situations, younge serve people below 21 find themselves in those situation constantly. However being a parent of a 19 year old and seeing the caliber of her friends frankly I'm glad the age is 21 for both. They just don't have the maturity or self control, basically if you want the left to have more statistics to ram down our throts let an 18 yr old carry a CCW.
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I'm not a drinker, But If you can go die for your country at age 18 then why can't you drink at age 18? Because drunk 18 year olds are full of stupid. I might accept your argument but since we have no draft I would limit it to only those 18 year olds actually serving in the military. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. Baby steps.... Babies finish graduate school by age 24. |
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Quoted: http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=14212&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter made hot Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile UNPOSSIBLE! The moneygrubbing NRA does NOTHING for "our 'rats". |
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If you are old enough to fight and die for your Country then you should be old enough to buy a firearm and enjoy a beer if you want.! Yep |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. Baby steps.... Babies finish graduate school by age 24. In this case if it takes 24 years then so be it. Running out RFN to challenge the 86 ban when there are so many unknowns regarding Heller and how it will be enforced is stupid. Even Gura said that. |
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I believe that if you wear the uniform and are empowered with the responsibilities which it entails, well you should be allowed to both drink and buy a handgun whatever age you are. The responsibilities and expectations of service members is astranomical in many situations, younge serve people below 21 find themselves in those situation constantly. However being a parent of a 19 year old and seeing the caliber of her friends frankly I'm glad the age is 21 for both. They just don't have the maturity or self control, basically if you want the left to have more statistics to ram down our throts let an 18 yr old carry a CCW. Just curious... What makes you think they're not drinking already? |
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Quoted: Quoted: I believe that if you wear the uniform and are empowered with the responsibilities which it entails, well you should be allowed to both drink and buy a handgun whatever age you are. The responsibilities and expectations of service members is astranomical in many situations, younge serve people below 21 find themselves in those situation constantly. However being a parent of a 19 year old and seeing the caliber of her friends frankly I'm glad the age is 21 for both. They just don't have the maturity or self control, basically if you want the left to have more statistics to ram down our throts let an 18 yr old carry a CCW. Just curious... What makes you think they're not drinking already? Shhhhhh. Let him continue to live in fairy land. |
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I'm not a drinker, But If you can go die for your country at age 18 then why can't you drink at age 18? Because drunk 18 year olds are full of stupid. I might accept your argument but since we have no draft I would limit it to only those 18 year olds actually serving in the military. So are drunk 21 year olds. Very little difference in fact, especially in these days when living at home until age 30 is somehow considered acceptable. |
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Good! Then if the 21 year old handgun law is struck down, maybe the 21 year old drinking age will be next. You have a constitutional right to own a handgun. No constitutional right to drink. Mike You have no constitutional right to breathe... enjoy your next 3 minutes of life. |
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I wish they would challenge the '86 machine gun ban. This. |
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NRA will not come out in the open to challenge the 86 for obvious reasons. The media would turn half the country against us over night. "NRA fights to legalize fully automatic military weapons" the pubic would cower in fear.
We have to pick our battles. |
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You can't? I got my USP .45F at 19. The gunstore that I picked it out at and my dad bought it at <...> That is a straw purchase, and illegal. |
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Isn't the Bill of Rights attached to the Constitution, which grants us certain rights? Not trying to stir shit, just curious how you can say that we aren't given any rights by the Constitution, but then the Bill of Rights which is attached to it, grants us rights such as the right to bear arms, free speech, etc. Or am I missing something? Because the men who wrote the Amendments believed that your rights were given to you by your creator and they were just securing them against a despotic government. This is elementary U.S. history. No rights can be given by man, and no man may give up his rights. They are ours from God. The Bill of Rights is nothing more than limits on the Federal Government, later expanded to the state governments. Very well said. BigDozer66 |
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That'd be nice. I had to jump through SO many hoops to get a Concealed Carry Permit and a pistol legally 18-20.
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It is incorrect to state, when speaking of Constitutional rights, to say they are GRANTED. Most correctly they should be referred to as "Constitutionally Protected".
I still say there is evidence for a Constitutionally protected right to imbibe, based on the Ammendment repealing prohibition. |
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You can't? I got my USP .45F at 19. The gunstore that I picked it out at and my dad bought it at <...> That is a straw purchase, and illegal. FAIL. It would only be a straw purchase if he (19 yo) is a felon. His dad can buy him all the guns he wants. BigDozer66 |
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I'm not a drinker, But If you can go die for your country at age 18 then why can't you drink at age 18? Because drunk 18 year olds are full of stupid. I might accept your argument but since we have no draft I would limit it to only those 18 year olds actually serving in the military. So are drunk 21 year olds. Very little difference in fact, especially in these days when living at home until age 30 is somehow considered acceptable. I am glad you already said it. Drunk 30 year olds are full of stupid...Drunk 40 year olds are full of stupid...should I go on? Look at all of the clowns at the WTC festival a couple weeks ago...Plenty of stupid there and some of them were not even drunk. BigDozer66 |
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Quoted: Before trying to dispense legal advice you should know what you speak of. You don't.Quoted: You can't? I got my USP .45F at 19. The gunstore that I picked it out at and my dad bought it at <...> That is a straw purchase, and illegal. |
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