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Posted: 9/7/2010 6:29:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:33:48 PM EDT by EvanWilliams]
Watching military channel.
Showing AA12 auto shotgun. According to the expert...

1. It is stainless steel so it doesn't rust.
2. Since it doesn't rust you don't need lubrication
3. Since you don't have to lube it, no dirt can attach to lube so NO JAMS.
4. Since it is automatic it doesn't have any recoil.

Awesome!!!!!

ETA: Wasn't there a gun once they said didn't need cleaning?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:40:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:41:42 PM EDT
Was Baldo the Wonder SEAL talking about it?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:41:51 PM EDT
Here's another pic



and here the FRAG-12 "high explosive shell"

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:43:17 PM EDT


Stainless on stainless tends to gall horribly, even with copious amounts of lubricant.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:45:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:


Stainless on stainless tends to gall horribly, even with copious amounts of lubricant.


Fixed years ago by using two different types of SS.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:45:33 PM EDT
It's pretty much a ripoff of the USAS-12.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:47:10 PM EDT
I've seen stainless steel show rust spots within weeks of being introduced to the Miami humidity and salty air. Stainless just means it rusts slower.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:49:28 PM EDT
If there's one thing true about stainless steel, it's that it isn't.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:49:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:


Stainless on stainless tends to gall horribly, even with copious amounts of lubricant.


Fixed years ago by using two different types of SS.


Yep. All that's necessary is that the alloys that are in direct contact are dissimilar enough. Not that hard to deal with, though it must be remembered during design. (And more importantly, during final production preparations.)
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:50:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:52:32 PM EDT by thatguywiththeak]
Call of Duty MW2 says its awesome, and COD is never wrong so it must be great/practical.

Honestly though it does look like a pretty promising design. It might be a bit heavy, especially with ammo, but it still looks very cool/useful. Some of the marketing though is a bit over the top, but its not like that is unusual for the firearms industry especially when potentially large military/law enforcement contracts are involved.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:51:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
I've seen stainless steel show rust spots within weeks of being introduced to the Miami humidity and salty air. Stainless just means it rusts slower.


This FTW!!!

I lived in Coral Gables. People would all buy stainless revolvers back then. Guess what? THEY ALL RUSTED!!
You still have to lube the shit out of any gun in Miami. And the guys who keep a gun on the boat? You better make it a revolver, pack it in heavy grease and wrap in oil soaked cloth.

I don't know who was talking. It is that ultimate weapons show.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:53:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Littlebob:
It's pretty much a ripoff of the USAS-12.


No its not.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:53:29 PM EDT
stainless=SS=stains less

it WILL rust
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:57:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EvanWilliams:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
I've seen stainless steel show rust spots within weeks of being introduced to the Miami humidity and salty air. Stainless just means it rusts slower.


This FTW!!!

I lived in Coral Gables. People would all buy stainless revolvers back then. Guess what? THEY ALL RUSTED!!
You still have to lube the shit out of any gun in Miami. And the guys who keep a gun on the boat? You better make it a revolver, pack it in heavy grease and wrap in oil soaked cloth.

I don't know who was talking. It is that ultimate weapons show.


I bought an AN/PVS-14 case and threw my SS 1911 in it with a bunch of dessicant packets. Then I threw my hands up and sold it for a USP. Nary a problem with that finish.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:57:47 PM EDT
that shit is clunky and huge.

just use a saiga12 with an md20 drum. kalashnikov ftw
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:00:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By EvanWilliams:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
I've seen stainless steel show rust spots within weeks of being introduced to the Miami humidity and salty air. Stainless just means it rusts slower.


This FTW!!!

I lived in Coral Gables. People would all buy stainless revolvers back then. Guess what? THEY ALL RUSTED!!
You still have to lube the shit out of any gun in Miami. And the guys who keep a gun on the boat? You better make it a revolver, pack it in heavy grease and wrap in oil soaked cloth.

I don't know who was talking. It is that ultimate weapons show.


I bought an AN/PVS-14 case and threw my SS 1911 in it with a bunch of dessicant packets. Then I threw my hands up and sold it for a USP. Nary a problem with that finish.


Good info.
The problem is these guys thought since they had "stainless" guns, they didn't have to worry about it.
FAIL!!!
I miss Miami!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:00:35 PM EDT
No lube needed means it must have zero moving parts, right?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:00:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chas8008:
stainless=SS=stains less

it WILL rust

Bingo.


You just have to abuse it more to get it to happen.



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:02:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
that shit is clunky and huge.

just use a saiga12 with an md20 drum. kalashnikov ftw


I've got both and I can tell you they've got something with that mag loading mechanism.

Loading a full MD-20 drum on a saiga can be tricky.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:04:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
No lube needed means it must have zero moving parts, right?


Eggsactly.

I LOLd immediately.
If it has metal and moves it needs lube.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:08:23 PM EDT
In one of the futureweapons vids, you can see it malfunction.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 7:17:28 PM EDT by sav_carguy]
No lube, and no recoil?

Good luck with that.


ETA- Of course, if you don't lube it, it eventually won't have any recoil, because it won't run anymore.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:20:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kap_x:
If there's one thing true about stainless steel, it's that it isn't.


Depends what kind of stainless. High grade stainless and some of the nitrogen alloy steels ARE rust proof. You can leave them in salt water for weeks or months and nothing will ever happen.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:22:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kap_x:
If there's one thing true about stainless steel, it's that it isn't.

it just stains-less
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:26:40 PM EDT
The metal of choice around salty air or salt water is titanium or high titanium alloys. Those metallic luster looking ROV arms that you saw in the Deep Water Horizon well rescue and recovery thread here...that was titanium structure...will not rust or corrode in salt water.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:34:57 PM EDT
If I'm not mistaken the real selling point of the AA-12 is that it has very little recoil making it very controllable when fired in full auto.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:41:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
I've seen stainless steel show rust spots within weeks of being introduced to the Miami humidity and salty air. Stainless just means it rusts slower.


It took me a while to figure that out when I was younger. I then broke down the word: stain-less. If it didn't rust they'd call it no-stain.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:41:40 PM EDT

When they gonna release a civvie version?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:50:00 PM EDT
I have a concept for a shotgun in my head that makes that thing look stupid, and ancient.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:59:35 PM EDT
That thing has been around in the gun press since the 80s, and so far no civilian version.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:00:52 PM EDT
I wonder how it runs with 3" 000 or slugs.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:20:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Walkure:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:


Stainless on stainless tends to gall horribly, even with copious amounts of lubricant.


Fixed years ago by using two different types of SS.


Yep. All that's necessary is that the alloys that are in direct contact are dissimilar enough. Not that hard to deal with, though it must be remembered during design. (And more importantly, during final production preparations.)


To the degree that you could run it as an un-lubricated contact point in a firearm action
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:21:53 PM EDT
Yeah, well, it was pretty bad ass in The Expendables.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:22:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 8:37:40 PM EDT by Alien]
That's funny, it jams in the future weapons video showcasing it.
goto 5:50

fn02le8e0nQ


I'd rather have a Benelli or Saiga, especially since they won't sell to civilians/Non-LEO, even if I could get one legally.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:23:51 PM EDT
My sweat is killing my Benchmade 551SBK made of stainless steel.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:24:05 PM EDT
Not necessary.

The Benelli m4 is a superior gun.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:29:10 PM EDT
Dosent much matter, single purpose shotgun, with a unpurposful design.

Unless your in video game design.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:29:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stottman:
That thing has been around in the gun press since the 80s, and so far no civilian version.


No it hasn't.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:34:09 PM EDT
yea in mw2 its a one shot kill from just under a mile away. quite possibly the best sniping weapon on the game.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:35:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stottman:
That thing has been around in the gun press since the 80s, and so far no civilian version.


Well, since no new MG's can be sold on the civilian market that were made after '86, wtf do you expect?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:48:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KrisW:
yea in mw2 its a one shot kill from just under a mile away. quite possibly the best sniping weapon on the game.

you're thinking of the Masterkey.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:03:05 PM EDT
Based off those spokesmen I tend to think the makers of the AA12 are an extremely small shop.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:33:31 PM EDT
Ya think
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:36:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
Call of Duty MW2 says its awesome, and COD is never wrong so it must be great/practical.

Honestly though it does look like a pretty promising design. It might be a bit heavy, especially with ammo, but it still looks very cool/useful. Some of the marketing though is a bit over the top, but its not like that is unusual for the firearms industry especially when potentially large military/law enforcement contracts are involved.


No way, everybody know that the Spas or the Striker are way better in COD.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:38:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
that shit is clunky and huge.

just use a saiga12 with an md20 drum. kalashnikov ftw


I've got both and I can tell you they've got something with that mag loading mechanism.

Loading a full MD-20 drum on a saiga can be tricky.


+1

I have an MD20, and while it is a great and very well built drum, it is not the easiest thing to load. I have reduced the tension and it still takes me a while to load it up, I could not imagine trying to reload that thing during combat.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:12:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Littlebob:
It's pretty much a ripoff of the USAS-12.



Nope.......designed before the USAS-12 by Max Atchisson 1972. It actually the only gun deal I've been screwed on. They where going to build it back in the early 80's. I sent in a couple hundred bucks to get one of the first ones......but the company ripe everbody including Atchisson off and never built it.
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:22:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 10:24:14 PM EDT by Zix]
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
Originally Posted By Stottman:
That thing has been around in the gun press since the 80s, and so far no civilian version.


No it hasn't.



Yes it has, here's a picture that was submitted during the patent process in 1987



EDIT: link to pic and some more history...

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh29-e.htm

And technically, the USAS-12 was derived from the original design of the AA-12, which was done in the early 1970's, and evolved to the current model
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:32:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zix:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
Originally Posted By Stottman:
That thing has been around in the gun press since the 80s, and so far no civilian version.


No it hasn't.



Yes it has, here's a picture that was submitted during the patent process in 1987

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/atchisson3.jpg

EDIT: link to pic and some more history...

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh29-e.htm

And technically, the USAS-12 was derived from the original design of the AA-12, which was done in the early 1970's, and evolved to the current model

The USAS-12 is a 12ga variant of the ROK's Daewoo assault rifle.

In the same sense that the Saiga-12 is a 12ga variant of the AKM.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:33:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
that shit is clunky and huge.

just use a saiga12 with an md20 drum. kalashnikov ftw


I've got both and I can tell you they've got something with that mag loading mechanism.

Loading a full MD-20 drum on a saiga can be tricky.

Supposedly, there is a new variant of the S-12 coming, with a factory magwell, rather than rock-n-lock...

Of course, that won't do much for those who already own rock-n-lock S-12 gear...



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:35:53 PM EDT
apparently it shoots through platoons

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