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Posted: 9/7/2010 6:27:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:27:37 PM EDT by Lancelot]
When I went to the range saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accesories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float handguard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:49:26 PM EDT
My first three AR's were 20". A Colt SP1, an early Colt A2 and one of the early Colt "Match Target" before they switched to A2 sights. I went longer with my first upper, a 24" spacegun from WOP in the 90's. I finally purchased a Colt 16" H-Bar after the AWB. Since then I've purchased 14.5", 16", 17" 18' and 26" barrels and still considerb the 20" the best all around length. 18" running a close second.

Everyone should have at least one A2 in their inventory if only to shoot NRA high power "service rifle" matches.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:58:18 PM EDT
I dont get it
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:39:48 PM EDT

My 16" mid will do 90-95% of what I'd ever need a 20" to ... and it can even do some things better, e.g. manueverability.

Don't get me wrong, 20 inchers are cool. But unless I intend to do some dedicated long-range stuff, then bbl lengths shorter than 20" fit the bill just fine for me.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:49:43 PM EDT
What a stupid thread. I'm no fan of mall-ninjas who hang all manner of crap off their rifles, but to make fun of them based on the fact you have a basic 20" gun is dumb.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:54:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ave8er:
When I went to the range saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accesories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float handguard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!


What the fuck ever. You're special. Congratulations.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:55:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
What a stupid thread. I'm no fan of mall-ninjas who hang all manner of crap off their rifles, but to make fun of them based on the fact you have a basic 20" gun is dumb.


Wow! Someone had pee in their Post Toasties this morning.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:56:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By An7oine:
Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
What a stupid thread. I'm no fan of mall-ninjas who hang all manner of crap off their rifles, but to make fun of them based on the fact you have a basic 20" gun is dumb.


Wow! Someone had pee in their Post Toasties this morning.


Have you read the rest of the replies? It seems more than a few people share my sentiments.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:57:29 PM EDT
So you're glad you bought a 20" instead of 16" because of what other people do with their 16" rifles?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:02:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBnTX:
I agree a thousand percent!!!

My Colt A2 and my BCM A4 are my favorite rifles to shoot.
Both are stock full length rifles with iron sights.

I also have 2 Colt 6920's and the only "accessory" I've added
is I put an ACOG on one of them.

I've never bought into the tacticool gadget philosophy.

I see guys at the range all the time with all kinds of doo-dads
attached to their rifles and they can't shoot any better than I
can with iron sights.
This. I consider myself to be a very poor marksman, but I consistently place on par with scope shooters on the long range portions of 3-gun matches.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:02:52 PM EDT
KISS for the sake of KISS is stupid. Enjoy your fence post.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:04:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
A rail, a flashlight and maybe a VFG what else do you really need for a carbine? Maybe a Eotech or optic of your choice. I am not into lasers and tazer guns mounted on the rifle.


A sling comes to mind. A laser isn't always a bad thing as long as someone trains with it. If it is one of those cheap fakes then I'd agree with you.

Anyway as long as it adds usable function I don't see the issue. I enjoy shooting my bcm a4 using its carry handle but I also enjoy shooting my 10.5 inch sbr which has a rail, vfg, sopmod stock, sling, and aimpoint on it. Thing will only get heavier when I add the suppressor.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:11:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
KISS for the sake of KISS is stupid. Enjoy your fence post.

Some may do it just for the sake of it, but others don't. Not only do I like the look of 20" AR's, but I have long arms, and I simply CANNOT shoot a carbine comfortably. As far as collapsible stocks go, I have to extend those out as far as they go, so what's the point of having one when the A2 stock is a better fit for me? The stock A2 grip and trigger guard work well for me even when wearing gloves. So for me, a 20" AR is just more practical, and it just so happens to be the best looking configuration to me, so yes, I think I will continue to enjoy my fence post.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:16:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By plinkr415:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
KISS for the sake of KISS is stupid. Enjoy your fence post.

Some may do it just for the sake of it, but others don't. Not only do I like the look of 20" AR's, but I have long arms, and I simply CANNOT shoot a carbine comfortably. As far as collapsible stocks go, I have to extend those out as far as they go, so what's the point of having one when the A2 stock is a better fit for me? The stock A2 grip and trigger guard work well for me even when wearing gloves. So for me, a 20" AR is just more practical, and it just so happens to be the best looking configuration to me, so yes, I think I will continue to enjoy my fence post.


I haven't seen you around here making posts like the OPs, though. There lies the difference.

If you run out of room on a carbine there are a million ways to configue it better. Try a 12" Daniel Defense rail and an LMT SOPMOD Stock. You have the same room that you would have had on a rifle and a stock with a better cheekweld and longer LOP than an A2. As for looks, I really don't care. I think that Daniel Defense rail that allows front sight post to stick through it is ugly. It's also incredibly practical. I'll take practicality over looks any day.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:23:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By plinkr415:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
KISS for the sake of KISS is stupid. Enjoy your fence post.

Some may do it just for the sake of it, but others don't. Not only do I like the look of 20" AR's, but I have long arms, and I simply CANNOT shoot a carbine comfortably. As far as collapsible stocks go, I have to extend those out as far as they go, so what's the point of having one when the A2 stock is a better fit for me? The stock A2 grip and trigger guard work well for me even when wearing gloves. So for me, a 20" AR is just more practical, and it just so happens to be the best looking configuration to me, so yes, I think I will continue to enjoy my fence post.


I haven't seen you around here making posts like the OPs, though. There lies the difference.

If you run out of room on a carbine there are a million ways to configue it better. Try a 12" Daniel Defense rail and an LMT SOPMOD Stock. You have the same room that you would have had on a rifle and a stock with a better cheekweld and longer LOP than an A2. As for looks, I really don't care. I think that Daniel Defense rail that allows front sight post to stick through it is ugly. It's also incredibly practical. I'll take practicality over looks any day.

I understand what you're saying. Different strokes for different folks. I wasn't trying to come off as rude.

I did find it funny when my best friend was asking me to help him build his first AR, and before even considering a 20" gun (he's long and tall like me), he straight up opted for the carbine just because of its short looks.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:18:50 AM EDT
Nothing but 20" love here! And yes, many people (not all) complain about the extra weight of a 20" rifle and/or an HBAR barrel, then proceed to drape their carbines (or SBR's ) with expensive accessories they'll probably never use in a practical situation. Many of them also think that they just have to have an optic instead of becoming proficient with irons. It simply puzzles me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:19:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ave8er:
When I went to the range saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accesories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float handguard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!


You might find some here who disagree that those of us who own carbines are "lemmings". As a matter of record I have ARs ranging from 10.3 to 20". Everyone has their own preferences.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:22:31 AM EDT
I agree a thousand percent!!!

My Colt A2 and my BCM A4 are my favorite rifles to shoot.
Both are stock full length rifles with iron sights.

I also have 2 Colt 6920's and the only "accessory" I've added
is I put an ACOG on one of them.

I've never bought into the tacticool gadget philosophy.

I see guys at the range all the time with all kinds of doo-dads
attached to their rifles and they can't shoot any better than I
can with iron sights.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:23:44 AM EDT
Glad I'm not a Lemming with my 16" carbine because I don't have a bunch of accessories. I only have and ACOG sight, a VFG and back up iron sights.

Different tastes for different people.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:23:52 AM EDT
What about a 16" Midlength, am I a lemming? I am working on my 20" build, albeit slowly.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:26:41 AM EDT
Its funny...my Colt Hbar is the lightest of them all...except for my sbr..
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:26:56 AM EDT
Damned right. I was brought up on Colt A2 rifles. I just bought my first AR15, a Colt 6551 (government profile) for fun, plinking, hunting and 3-gun. I have a white oak armament service rifle upper on the way, and a lower with a geissele trigger in it. So, soon, I'll have both a lightweight 20'' A2 rifle, and a really heavy 20'' A2 rifle with free float tube, 1907 turner sling, geissele trigger, 1/4 minute pinned sights, and a heavy weight in the stock.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:31:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
Originally Posted By ave8er:
When I went to the range saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accesories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float handguard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!


You might find some here who disagree that those of us who own carbines are "lemmings". As a matter of record I have ARs ranging from 10.3 to 20". Everyone has their own preferences.


You mean to tell me that you cant understand the use of the word "lemmings" in his context? Only a lemming would be offended being called a "lemming".
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:37:00 AM EDT
Yes, how dare the majority of people go with a more efficient setup than yours. They must all be lemmings because they have a similar setup.

At class last week almost everyone there had the same setup. I guess they were all just lemmings and it had nothing to do with what works better.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:51:52 AM EDT
Glad to see all forms of elitism are still keeping strong.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:02:47 AM EDT
A rail, a flashlight and maybe a VFG what else do you really need for a carbine? Maybe a Eotech or optic of your choice. I am not into lasers and tazer guns mounted on the rifle.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:08:40 AM EDT
lol at the guy with the free float hand guard and the barrel is sitting on a sand bag.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:21:32 AM EDT
As much as I love my 3- 20" guns I still enjoy shooting my A2 carbine and SP-1 carbines just as much as much.
As a side note if you are only going to shoot 3 gun and at 100 yards I cant think of any reason to use a 20"
My SPR's are for the 200 + ventures. If its under that i would just as soon have the carbine. But then again thats why I have both.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:44:33 AM EDT


My HD carbine. Everything that adds weight is compensated for by minimizing weight where it's not needed (Cavarms stock, pencil barrel, non-railed light mount).
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:47:37 AM EDT
I finished building an A4 about two hours ago. Pretty much all Bushmaster except for the BCM BCG.
I bought a Bushmaster Govt. contoured 20" barrel and all the other Bushy parts. Looks cool.

Later I'll add a Daniel Omega rail and the correct ACOG and walla! a true A4 clone (except for the Omega, I can't see spending that much $$$$ for a non-free-float.)

Looking in my safe, I have one 24", two 20" and five 16" carbines.
I still have 3 lowers to worry with.





Bill
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:18:48 PM EDT
A1 profile upper > A2 profile or A4 profile upper if you want a KISS 20"

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:57:55 PM EDT
I'm a smaller guy so I prefer the shorter carbine opposed to the 20". All I need is some iron sights so I can agree on the opposing view to the tacticool rifles.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:00:22 PM EDT
I just got my hands on a pre-ban Bushmaster lower and im building an A2 upper for it..miss my original 20" wich was turned into a carbine 12 years ago..I need the full size fixed handle back in my life
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 4:48:40 PM EDT by Forgetfull]

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:

Originally Posted By JBnTX:
I agree a thousand percent!!!

My Colt A2 and my BCM A4 are my favorite rifles to shoot.
Both are stock full length rifles with iron sights.

I also have 2 Colt 6920's and the only "accessory" I've added
is I put an ACOG on one of them.

I've never bought into the tacticool gadget philosophy.

I see guys at the range all the time with all kinds of doo-dads
attached to their rifles and they can't shoot any better than I
can with iron sights.
This. I consider myself to be a very poor marksman, but I consistently place on par with scope shooters on the long range portions of 3-gun matches.


You must shoot with bad shooters or are taking a long time to shoot.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:00:24 PM EDT
Get both.



Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:01:47 PM EDT
i had a 20 but tired of toting it,, im a midlength and carbine guy now
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:05:19 PM EDT
lemmings


Wow, make yourself feel better craping on other people?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:05:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ave8er:
When I went to the range saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accesories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float handguard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!


Making fun of the many people that prefer shorter rifles is not a good way to make friends...
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:05:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ave8er:
When I went to the range Saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accessories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float hand guard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!


And why should anyone heed your old Fudd advice???

That statement clearly puts you in the "No clue what I don't know.... and don't know it"

It's guys with thought processes like you who held the Marines And Army back for decades... it took two wars to finally pull there heads out of there 4th points of contact and get rid of the "Musket" and field a Carbine for fighting and not for shooting off a static bench at paper tgts at 100 yds....
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:08:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 5:14:50 PM EDT by shadowcop]
For me, anything over 16" is a waste for an AR. Unless you are shooting long range iron sight competition, why would you want that much rifle? Only reason I would want one would be for a Retro Vietnam look.
My work rifle has a light, sling, VFG, and an Aimpoint. It does add weight but is very useful.
My 11.5" is a K.I.S.S. set up. But I keep an option for a light.
Even my 7.5" has a light.
For a range rifle, no, you don't need the extras. But for me, any rifle I own can be used effectively for defense and is set up as such.

At 100 yards my 10.5 and 11.5" do a good job. My 16" will shoot a ragged hole with glass and decent ammo.
To each their own, but don't discount those with shorter, more efficient set ups.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:22:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
To each their own, but don't discount those with shorter, more efficient set ups.

You don't necessarily have a more efficient setup. It may be effective for you, but not for others. As I stated earlier, I cannot comfortably shoot carbines and short rifles. My 20" A4 can be used effectively by me in defense situations. Does that mean that it can be used effectively by you? No, not necessarily, but I can use it effectively, so to me, it's more efficient than your carbine, and the opposite is true for you.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:25:31 PM EDT
I don't really give a crap about what everybody else at the range has, and I don't use that to justify or validate my choices.
That said, it would be curious to see where the OP would put me:



I've got them all, so I guess I'm compensating all the way around.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:42:30 PM EDT
And the troll is starting the flame.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:52:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 5:53:47 PM EDT by 87GN]
All those stupid lemmings in Iraq who hated the A4 and scream for more M4s...with "doodads"...they were all just following the leader. Heck, the M4 was too long for some things...

I have a 20" rifle with a collapsible stock, it shoots great...but it's about the last of my ARs I'd pick for anything serious.

I try to go to the range when no one else is there. In the afternoon, during the week, it's very hot, nobody else feels like being there. This way I am not affected by the purchasing decisions of other shooters.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:55:31 PM EDT
Why buy a longer barrel if you don't need it? 100 yards?

Not everyone needs to compensate for something.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:05:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By plinkr415:
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
To each their own, but don't discount those with shorter, more efficient set ups.

You don't necessarily have a more efficient setup. It may be effective for you, but not for others. As I stated earlier, I cannot comfortably shoot carbines and short rifles. My 20" A4 can be used effectively by me in defense situations. Does that mean that it can be used effectively by you? No, not necessarily, but I can use it effectively, so to me, it's more efficient than your carbine, and the opposite is true for you.


As I stated before. You could easily shoot a carbine. They can be set-up with the same or more real-estate up front and the same or more (or less) length of pull. The only difference is you have an extra 4" of barrel out front. Considering you don't hold on to the barrel I can see no reason why you couldn't comfortably shoot a carbine with a 12" hand guard and SOPMOD stock? If you prefer the rifle that's one thing but to say that you can not shoot something shorter is false.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:08:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By plinkr415:
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
To each their own, but don't discount those with shorter, more efficient set ups.

You don't necessarily have a more efficient setup. It may be effective for you, but not for others. As I stated earlier, I cannot comfortably shoot carbines and short rifles. My 20" A4 can be used effectively by me in defense situations. Does that mean that it can be used effectively by you? No, not necessarily, but I can use it effectively, so to me, it's more efficient than your carbine, and the opposite is true for you.


As I stated before. You could easily shoot a carbine. They can be set-up with the same or more real-estate up front and the same or more (or less) length of pull. The only difference is you have an extra 4" of barrel out front. Considering you don't hold on to the barrel I can see no reason why you couldn't comfortably shoot a carbine with a 12" hand guard and SOPMOD stock? If you prefer the rifle that's one thing but to say that you can not shoot something shorter is false.

Where the FSB is located on a carbine is where I place my left hand. Bringing it in any closer than that is uncomfortable, so no false statement. Kinda bold of you to call that false considering you've never seen me shoot.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:15:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By plinkr415:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By plinkr415:
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
To each their own, but don't discount those with shorter, more efficient set ups.

You don't necessarily have a more efficient setup. It may be effective for you, but not for others. As I stated earlier, I cannot comfortably shoot carbines and short rifles. My 20" A4 can be used effectively by me in defense situations. Does that mean that it can be used effectively by you? No, not necessarily, but I can use it effectively, so to me, it's more efficient than your carbine, and the opposite is true for you.


As I stated before. You could easily shoot a carbine. They can be set-up with the same or more real-estate up front and the same or more (or less) length of pull. The only difference is you have an extra 4" of barrel out front. Considering you don't hold on to the barrel I can see no reason why you couldn't comfortably shoot a carbine with a 12" hand guard and SOPMOD stock? If you prefer the rifle that's one thing but to say that you can not shoot something shorter is false.

Where the FSB is located on a carbine is where I place my left hand. Bringing it in any closer than that is uncomfortable, so no false statement. Kinda bold of you to call that false considering you've never seen me shoot.


Not Bold at all. A 12" forearm on a carbine goes right over the FSB. That's the point. My support hand goes in the same place as yours. If you purchased a middy you would be able to shoot it fine even with plastic hand guards as the FSB would be in front of where your support hand goes. On top of that a fully exteneded SOPMOD stock is longer than and A2 stock. Where am I wrong here? Where is my boldness? You could setup a 12.5" carbine to support your needs as well. That's 7.5" less of barrel and your stance would not change at all.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:20:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By m24shooter:
I don't really give a crap about what everybody else at the range has, and I don't use that to justify or validate my choices.
That said, it would be curious to see where the OP would put me:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/100_2244.jpg

I've got them all, so I guess I'm compensating all the way around.


You get hero status!

I did not mean to pee in anyones wheaties..... I was just saying I am glad I built a 20" AR and did not follow the crowd (maybe lemmings was not the right choice of words but it seemd to fit and was in no way meant to be offensive) and build what they play with every day on "call of duty" or whatever the latest PS3 game is.

I have to say the guy that said I have no idea what I don't know is correct, I have no idea what I don't know....I do however, have no idea why a guy would hang what looked like a D cell mag light on a rifle?? I was not making fun of you guys for your choices.

I guess I had not thought of the AR platform as being kind of the crossover weapon, long barreled pistol/short barreled rifle kind of bridge the gap weapon.

I love my 20" KISS rifle and am glad I built it and I am sure all of those guys that bought or built their lesser rifles love theirs as well. I am glad that they are having fun with what can be a very fulfilling hobby

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:21:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Not Bold at all. A 12" forearm on a carbine goes right over the FSB. That's the point. My support hand goes in the same place as yours. If you purchased a middy you would be able to shoot it fine even with plastic hand guards as the FSB would be in front of where your support hand goes. On top of that a fully exteneded SOPMOD stock is longer than and A2 stock. Where am I wrong here? Where is my boldness? You could setup a 12.5" carbine to support your needs as well. That's 7.5" less of barrel and your stance would not change at all.

I figured you'd throw midlengths into the mix, and to be honest, I just don't like them at all. Not to mention that the sight radius on a 20" gun is better than that of a midlength. Also, let's get back into weight savings. How much more would a SOPMOD stock weigh over an A2 stock? Why would I want to add weight when not necessary? An A2 stock works perfectly for my needs. This is kinda out there, but since we're somewhat talking about survival situations where you want the most efficient weapon as possible, a SOPMOD stocks looks like it has more of a chance of snagging something (whether it be your clothing, gear, or some other object) than an A2 stock.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:29:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
Originally Posted By ave8er:
When I went to the range saturday and yesterday to put some rounds through my freshly built AR I could not help but notice all of the lemmings with their carbine length AR's lining the range...They all looked the same except for the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of accesories hanging on them that will probably never be used... The build or buy a short, light, manueverable rifle then put so much crap on it that it won't fit through a standard width doorway and it weighs 20lbs... One guy had a sweet free float handguard and was shooting 100 yards with the barrel resting on a sand bag.... i did not have the heart to tell him....no sense having a free floating barrel if you are going to rest it on a sandbag... lol seriously, my 20" stainless, non free float with iron sights and krylon/fde furniture was the outcast...But the 4-5" hundred yard groups with my old eyes and iron sights made me smile...now several hundred more rounds off hand and I will be ready for a 3 gun match!


You might find some here who disagree that those of us who own carbines are "lemmings". As a matter of record I have ARs ranging from 10.3 to 20". Everyone has their own preferences.


yea, i went carbine since i cannot shoot past 400 yds (all dense woods.) Unless I'm reaching out to about a mile. Its about practicality.
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