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Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:32:48 PM EDT
[#1]
I got a sword my Grandpa brought back from ww2. That thing is sharper than any piece of metal iv'e ever touched.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:32:49 PM EDT
[#2]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Anxious to see who's proud of knowing a lot about Japanese sword-making, which is also a serious admission of the lack of pussy in your teenage years that would lead you to study such things.



I can tell you how to get a girl's panties around her ankles with Boone's Farm and a Journey record, but sadly not much about katanas.




a true samurai dates girls who don't wear panties


Doubtful on the Journey records too....

 
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:35:45 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm not sure the Japanese are big on selling the REAL DEAL. That kind of stuff stays in their families for generations....except of course, the ones they "didn't need anymore" that found their way back here in GIs' duffle bags. I could be wrong about that though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:38:30 PM EDT
[#4]
I know a LITTLE bit.  Not enough to give a lot of detailed advice.



But, know this:  An authentic Japanese blade is made of hand-forged carbon steel, known properly as Tamahagane.





It WILL rust.   The only reason why there are many ancient Japanese swords in existence that are still in fabulous condition is

because they are maintained RELIGIOUSLY by GOOD owners, and also,  every so often (maybe once every 50 years, maybe more,

maybe less) they are reconditioned, or "repolished" which is an expensive process done only by highly trained professionals, in

which the surface is renewed by a complex polishing process using special stones and methods.  A repolish can barely be had for

even a short sword for less than 600 dollars.



Normal care pretty much demands that you learn proper sword cleaning and maintenance practices and you perform these maintenance steps

with the correct supplies on a regular basis.   General practice is that a sword in ordinary storage should get maintained every month,

and one being used in iai (swordsmanship practice) is to be cleaned every time it's used.  (In iai, you will never actually place another person

in danger.  There is no sparring in iai for obvious reasons.)     A sword going into long term storage would be oiled with a heavier, longer lasting

grade of oil than is normally used,  and is stored in a plain scabbard known as a shirasaya, or "resting saya".  (Saya means scabbard.)  A sword

may remain rust free for many years if perfectly prepared for long term storage and kept in shirasaya in a properly climate controlled environment. (Cool and dry)



If you simply want a pretty wall hanger,  a real Japanese sword is not for you.   To own one is to make a commitment to its proper maintenance.



I own three authentic Japanese blades.  None are particularly valuable but I am particularly fond of my large (14.25" long blade) hira zukuri style o-tanto in shirasaya.   It is a beautiful thing.     I got it along with a wakizashi (short sword) that has a few minor blemishes on it due

to a little bit of rust occurring on it while in its own shirasaya.    This was due to its not having been maintained by the retired USAF officer

who owned it, and who got it from a Japanese friend while he was stationed in Okinawa in the 60s.    Fortunately, the blemishes are minor

and would easily be polished out by a professional.



You could compromise and get a Paul Chen blade. I might recommend their Orchid model katana, which is well made,  very authentic in its

manufacturing technique, and streets for about 1000 dollars.   I have one.   It's what I practice iai with, when I have time to practice.





CJ


Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:39:30 PM EDT
[#5]



Quoted:


I got a sword my Grandpa brought back from ww2. That thing is sharper than any piece of metal iv'e ever touched.


Please refer to my post above.  I hope that you are properly maintaining it.   Please post pics!
 
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:40:59 PM EDT
[#6]



Quoted:


I'm not sure the Japanese are big on selling the REAL DEAL. That kind of stuff stays in their families for generations....except of course, the ones they "didn't need anymore" that found their way back here in GIs' duffle bags. I could be wrong about that though.


There are a lot of modern Japanese swordsmiths who are currently active.  If you've got the cash, they are more than happy to sell their

work to appreciative Americans.



Prices probably start at about 5000 dollars US.



Money talks.  Anything short of a National Treasure ranked blade can be bought if you have the scratch.





CJ





 
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:41:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
There are laws in Japan about removing registered handmade blades from the country.

.


I think this is true. I talked with an ex-Marine who had been in Japan and claimed he had some confiscated when he left because they couldn't leave Japan. Find out how it's legal, if at all, before spending any real money. Don't know who to ask about legality of bringing one home, maybe Customs or the US Embassy to start. If they don't know if it's legal they can probably tell you who does.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:42:55 PM EDT
[#8]
LOL   First poster hits thenail on the head again!   Nicely done swingset!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:43:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:


Also I've read that modern steel meets or exceeds the traditional folded metal design


true, but many consider katanas made in that manner to be a poor copy. It's sort of like putting a modern stock on a Garand-sure it may be better or newer material but it's not the same.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:44:17 PM EDT
[#10]



Quoted:


Yeah, I know this.  An authentic made Katana would cost THOUSANDS of dollars.  They're not a souvenir that every tourist can afford.


+1 What I thought as well.



 
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:54:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:56:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Nothing personal against the posters here.. but when I read some of the misconceptions that people hold concerning Nihonto (real japanese swords) it makes my head hurt

I have purchased, studied and collected them for 15 years. I have spent more on rare books than most will spend on a good blade.

And no Swingset, I am not a basement dwelling virgin with a neckbeard and a huge gut.

Nihonto ARE READILY AVAILABLE HERE IN THE STATES.

Yes... real ones. Likely more than are in Japan.

I just sent a 29" Katana to San Francisco to the NBTHK Shinsa to have it papered. It received a 70 point score which garnered it a Kanteisho Origami. The blade is attributed to  Den Noshu Kane Nori during the Kanbun period (1661).

Yes, I am well pleased with that attribution

BE WARNED.  There are many "dealers" here in the states. FEW are worthy of trust. They will seek to sell you what they wish to sell you, at prices they wish to set.

With times as they currently are Zaphod, you can get an excellent blade in full polish for a reasonable price here in the states. Folks are selling their blades for CHEAP.

So... dont even bother with the Japanese is my recommendation. They will not be giving out any special breaks like are to be found here in the states. Not even close.

I am sending you an IM with a couple names of reputable dealers, meaning they personally guarantee what they sell.

Many "sword guys" will try and run a game on new folks.. its pretty cut throat collecting. Ask me how I know

So, if they say a signature on a blade is good.. they back up what they say that it will paper to that smith come hell or high water.

Some trivia: Most Katana hover around the 24" and up mark. Blades close to 30" are fairly uncommon.  Im not going to say what I paid for that 29" blade that papered, as it was in poor polish and nobody really had any idea what it was until it came back and the grain leaped out of the surface! Itame and Mokume with a gunome midare hamon.

IM on the way.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:58:11 PM EDT
[#13]
If my research from my NO PUSSY days holds true, you will not be able to buy one for under $10k unless you buy an antique made by a no name smith and even that is iffy.  These are works of art.  A traditional polish alone is worth several hundred.  Last time I checked into new ones they are definitely in the mid five figure level and mountings are a couple K.  There is a reason the katana was considered the soul of the samurai and treated with such respect.  I would suggest looking for Yari as those tend to be cheaper if you want a real Japanese collectible.



Also, being registered weapons, they are only in museum or special repositories except for the bigger sword selling places that cater mostly for export.  I doubt you will find many people willing to let you hold them outside of some place wanting to sell you one. I could be wrong on that part though.



If you really want one I highly doubt you can buy what you want (or anything) in Japan.  You will have to follow one of these two options most likely...



There are A LOT of antique swords for sale through reputable places online and since these are high dollar items you can usually get a lot of good hi res photos.



There are quite a few American 'smiths who craft Japanese swords from more modern alloys in a traditional(-ish) method and these will probably be somewhere in your price range.



A Japanese sword made by a renown Japanese smith is more than a lot of machine guns.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:07:20 PM EDT
[#14]
One of few Americans that make swords in the tradition manner!  I know this guy personally and he os also an ikedo eido(sp) sensei.  

His forge is under his dojo;-)

http://www.goldmountainforge.com/forge.php

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:10:33 PM EDT
[#15]
All I know is that a recently departed friend of mine retrieved one from the body of a Japanese NCO on Guadalcanal, and carried it through the rest of the war, into Korea, and then into china as a mercenary. It was his prized possession and was the most beautiful weapon I've ever had the honor to hold. Of course, it had been altered from it's original state, the menuki had been replaced with the Marine Corps emblem, and from the pommel hung a leather thong with 14 knots in it. It's been identified as having been from the 1800's and is in a very good state for being used many times in combat
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:13:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Oh lord.. I gotta leave this thread alone... all the baloney that people spout as knowledge makes my head hurt.

Please.. if you dont even know what to call a "samurai sword"... LEAVE OFF POSTING.

Zaphod is looking for ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE... not supposition or what you presume to true.

If you are not a student of Nihonto, quit muddying the waters with hearsay and baloney.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:13:51 PM EDT
[#17]
If I was a worthless entertainer or athlete with millions of dollars, you better believe I'd go to Japan and have a sword made for me personally.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:15:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:16:15 PM EDT
[#19]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Yeah, I know this.  And authentic made Katana would cost THOUSANDS of dollars.  They're not a souvenir that every tourist can afford.




Yep.



They range from $19.99 to almost $1 million, depending how much authenticity you want.



Since I can't go anywhere near five figures, I'll have to stick to the mid-fours. A very functional, durable, and authentic blade can be had for that, although it won't be winning any artistic contests, which suits me fine.




Absolutely not possible for this price!



Now if you had $50K to START with then you could get somewhere.



If you want a great authentic blade for a great price that is the equivalent or better quality than Japanese blades go to http://www.bugei.com/
 
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:18:47 PM EDT
[#20]
have we seriously gone two pages withouth

"IT'S TAPE!"
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:27:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
My wife and I are planning a trip to Japan next year. She has a cousin who lives there who will make our visit a little easier.

Anyway, one of the things I definitely want to bring back is an authentic (which is to say properly-made, not legitimate antique) samurai sword. There are several places where the Masters continue to make them by hand in the old way, with all the accompanying quality and mystique.

So my question is, what should I be on the lookout for, and does anyone know if there are any handles available other than the traditional cross-weave-over-sharkskin style?

In the meantime, I am scouring the web to learn more about this. I will be spending more on this than on any gun I've ever owned (more like any three combined), and just want to be sure I know what I'm getting into.

Thanks.


If you want a legit hand made traditional sword you are looking at at LEAST 10k, and likely more. Just a blade without any fittings from a well known maker has fetched over 20K
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:30:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh lord.. I gotta leave this thread alone... all the baloney that people spout as knowledge makes my head hurt.

Please.. if you dont even know what to call a "samurai sword"... LEAVE OFF POSTING.

Zaphod is looking for ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE... not supposition or what you presume to true.

If you are not a student of Nihonto, quit muddying the waters with hearsay and baloney.




Agree 100% - there's a lot of B.S. in this thread.


yes indeed:-(



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:33:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:36:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:10:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Anxious to see who's proud of knowing a lot about Japanese sword-making, which is also a serious admission of the lack of pussy in your teenage years that would lead you to study such things.

I can tell you how to get a girl's panties around her ankles with Boone's Farm and a Journey record, but sadly not much about katanas.


 It doesn't take much skill to get a drunk girl to remove her panties...  But, finding one that is actually capable of discussing more than Journey's latest concert would be worthwhile.  

I'm sorry you wasted your youth on worthless bimbos instead of finding girls who had a modicum of self-respect and interest in things outside the latest issue of Cosmo.  But, I suppose quantity has a quality all its own.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:15:10 PM EDT
[#26]


YOU CAN GET ONE FOR ABOUT $209 OR $235 CANADIAN, AFTER THE CONVERSION.  YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY ABOUT $124 FOR CUSTOMS FEES.

YOU'LL HAVE TO CUT THE PLASTIC!  (IT'S TAPE)
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:48:13 PM EDT
[#27]
My girl friend's dad took me to a shop in Osaka that had a ton of old swords. Very cool stuff.
http://nipponto.co.jp
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:40:55 AM EDT
[#28]
I bought a tanto, from the 1800s, in Japan 2002. It was just a blade with some tip damage and even then the price was around $1500. The total was about $2000 after I had a shirasaya made for it.

I visited every sword store in Tokyo and that one blade was the only one I could afford.  


All swords must be registered but that does not matter for tourists because the blade will be shipped directly to your home.

Hope this helps.  
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:24:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
There's a place less than an hour from me, in NY.  They make some really outstanding katanas and the like, and are visited by many many famous people.  One of their regular customers, for example, is Henry Winkler.  I can find you the info if you're interested.


In NY?

Where?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:24:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Proper Etiquette when examining a Japanese sword video
Sword Forum rundown of Japanese laws pertaining to swords.

By all acounts an L6 Bainite sword from Howard Clark is superior in performance to the traditional construction of Japanese swords in every way.
Try searching for  shinsakuto in your search rather than katana or japanese sword.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:26:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I got a sword my Grandpa brought back from ww2. That thing is sharper than any piece of metal iv'e ever touched.


Still have your fingers?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:29:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
If you are going to Tokyo, I can give you the address of the dealer that I have bought several swords from over the years.  Send me an IM if you are interested.   Even if you are not going to be in Tokyo, you can still correspond with him. This guy is great, and I will not hesitate to do business with him again.  I currently have a katana from the 1300s that I bought from him, as well as a wakizashi from the early 1600s.

Interestingly, I've actually been corresponding with him these last few days, because I just bought a blade (from someone else) and needed his help to try to identify it. I'm normally really anal-retentive (imagine that ) about what I buy, but I bought this one without knowing a thing about it, simply because it is a thing of beauty and I fell in love with it .  After sending him some high-resolution images of the blade, he (and his colleagues in his shop) 's narrowed it down to two different smiths in the Enpo to Genroku period (1673-1688) in Settsu province.  From the perspective of Japanese sword collecting that counts as a "new" Shinto sword (as opposed to "old" Koto swords from before 1599).  Old or new, I love this blade. Anyway - my point is that this guy is very helpful, and I trust him - which is very important if you are buying a sword.

There's a lot of mythology, urban legend and rumor about Japanese swords, so absolutely feel free to IM me with questions, and I'll be happy to answer all questions you have.

It is true that there are some swords that cannot leave Japan, and are classified as National Treasures - but don't be sad, because none of us mortals would be able to afford them anyway since they would cost millions of dollars.  That said, it is entirely possible to find very nice swords in the mid 4 figures - no doubt about it.  My dealer in Tokyo has nice swords from about $2,500 up to amazing swords for about $150,000 , and everything in between.  But there's a LOT of really nice stuff available in the 4 figures.

However, the flip side is that if you are careful, and look for the right deal and the right sword for you, you can find an amazing sword that you LOVE, that will not break the bank. I am confident that you will be able to find a kick-ass sword within your budget.


You and I will be conversing just as soon as I finish this crap work I have to do in order to help pay for the sword.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:29:12 AM EDT
[#33]
I love how the OP asks about traditional Nihonto and people post stuff about chenness, hanwei, $20 wall hangers etc. The fail in this thread is about as bad as all the gun show navy seals I have ever heard about.

He is going to Japan and wants to bring back a Japanese sword. Most on here have no CLUE what they are talking about. They sound like they are recommending bird shot and a Taurus judge as the ultimate home defense weapon.

Thank god some of the folks on here know what they are talking about. If you want a nihonto, I would 1st educate yourself. There are several great places on the net to get a basic understanding. If you decide you have to get a sword while in Japan, follow up with DK's contact. If you just want a Japanese blade you can get one in the States for low 4 figures, again go with DK's contact.

If you just like the style of a Katana, and are not a purest there are many choices out there. Some for big $$$ and some for not so much. Figure out a budget first. You can get custom swords by US makers, or production swords. If you want to find something for a few hundred dollars the http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/ is a good place to start. Their shtick is swords around $300. These are not 'authentic' nihonto by ANY stretch of the imagination, but they are swords, not SLO (sword like objects). If you go up to $1000 you can get some nice looking production swords that will have some pattern welding grain, hamon, and a better polish. Still not 'authentic' but nice looking swords. If one of these blades are polished better, they can look really nice.

You can go up and get custom swords from American makers, there are a number of them, not just 1 or 2, but a bunch, that make swords in a traditional manner, or use modern methods to make functionally better ones, with a traditional 'look'. Some send out to polishers, and some do the polish themselves. The polish costs a decent amount and there are traditional polishes, these take longer and cost more. And there are hybrid polishes that use modern methods to get close to traditional effects without spending the time or money. A good traditional polish can not be faked, and a serious collector, smith, polisher could tell the difference. But to a novice collector knowing what he really got, they can look quite nice as well. Just don't think a traditional polish can be done for $200, but a nice looking hybrid polish can.

Everything depends on what you really want, how much you want to spend, and doing your research and not getting ripped off. Most newbies do not get a good reputable contact like DK offered. They spend a bunch of money on fakes and crap until they learn what is what. If you don't want to do the research, and want a nihonto, then go with DK's contact would be my advice, but also learn what you will have to do to maintain the blade. If you don't want to do the maintenance required, don't buy and neglect a piece of history. By a nice production/custom Katana that you like the look of and hang it on your wall.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:34:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:43:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:46:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Whatever Zaphod decides and ends up doing, I hope it's something that he will love for the rest of his life, and pass down to his children.


That's a primary goal; to pass it down.

I am torn between a true (i.e. - a few hundred years old) sword, a NEW sword hand-made in Japan, or a NEW sword made with new technologies.

Sounds like an opportunity for "Get them all!"

I lean toward one of the first two, and perhaps more toward the new Japanese sword based solely on cost. However, if DK and others are able to steer me to a true antique at a reasonable price, then I'll be all for it.

I need it to be fully-functional. A wall-hanger is most definitely NOT what I want. In short, if I need to be able to cut some miscreant in half, then by golly I want this thing to be able to do it with a smile.

I need it to be in good shape. In other words, free of nicks along the edge, straight, and with a decent level of polish. I don't expect perfection, nor can I afford it. I want a good-quality weapon.

As for scabbard and handle, that will be a concern later. I'll admit I'm a huge fan of the MacLeod-style handles from the movie/TV show, but a) I have no idea if that's even remotely practical, and b) I doubt I'd be able to import a good one made from real ivory without ending up in the slammer.

I fully understand that the blade will require a lot of TLC, and I full expect to treat it with the honor it deserves whether it is new or antique. It is my intention to pass it down to my children someday.

I'd LOVE to get a traditional two-sword set, for which I would then make the stand myself.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:47:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
You don't want to discover new information AFTER you've made a purchase and say "I wish I had known that ahead of time"  


I learned that lesson with my first wife.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:07:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:08:23 AM EDT
[#39]
I know next to nothing but the one of the thigns I remember is that the water line (I think it's called the hamon? Maybe?)  is formed by putting clay on the blade when they temper the blade, if it is uniform and looks like a sin wave or like perfect 90 degree saw teeth it's a cheap fake blade.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:26:30 AM EDT
[#40]
aWESOME.

I go to work and have 5 messages. Then I see this thread and start going to the youtube links.
From sword tests to cheapass swords to final fantasy 4peice swords to N64 starfox tips and hints..
Now I am watching a Japanese chick in a cute skirt play a slap bass.
I suddenly have the hots for Japanese chicks.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:31:11 AM EDT
[#41]
dk, would you be willing to post pics of your swords?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:40:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Yeah, I know this.  An authentic made Katana would cost THOUSANDS of dollars.  They're not a souvenir that every tourist can afford.


Yeah if you can get someone to actually make it for you, the prices are in the 10k+ range IIRC.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:40:50 AM EDT
[#43]
If the documentary that I watched on them is to be believed, between the smelting, forging, and sharpening, it takes a lot more time and effort than most folks realize to make one.  The sharpening alone can take two months, if I recall.  I would not expect to get a real, authentic, properly-made one for less than five figures.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:42:08 AM EDT
[#44]
A real Katana is a custom sword made to your specifications, your body and the Art you study.  You might want to talk to a traditional Jujitsu instructor who might be able to help you customize it to you.  He will be able to help you with size, balance and blade style.  Then you place your order and wait for it to be made.  It will cost $7,000 to $10,000 for a good sword.  Anything less is not real.

You can find info here: http://swordforum.com/summer99/katana-shopping.html


You can order a Katana that is already made (If you do not want to wait for a custom).  http://www.nihonto.us/
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:45:25 AM EDT
[#45]
200k or so for a 5 body sword made by a real Jap sword maker.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:52:52 AM EDT
[#46]
just get a good Rapier.. every one knows its a much better sword..
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:00:58 AM EDT
[#47]
Not knowing shit about swords (and likely showing it), I'd have to ask what's wrong with the Cold Steel lineup?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:10:26 AM EDT
[#48]
This guy is a dealer here in the Netherlnds, the site is in English as well and you can see some priceing.
This shop has some
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:14:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Not knowing shit about swords (and likely showing it), I'd have to ask what's wrong with the Cold Steel lineup?


For starters, it's made by Cold Ste[a]l.

Otherwise, I can't help you.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:15:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Anxious to see who's proud of knowing a lot about Japanese sword-making, which is also a serious admission of the lack of pussy in your teenage years that would lead you to study such things.

I can tell you how to get a girl's panties around her ankles with Boone's Farm and a Journey record, but sadly not much about katanas.


mother of god I just shot coffee out my nose all over my desk at work.
Best sigline I've seen
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