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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:01:13 PM EDT
Probably not a smart move...
link

UNIONDALE, N.Y. (CBS 2) — He was arrested for protecting his property and family.

But it’s how the Long Island man did it that police say crossed the line.

He got a high powered AK-47 and pulled the trigger and he ended up in jail, reports CBS 2’s Pablo Guzman.

George Grier said he had to use his rifle on Sunday night to stop what he thought was going to be an invasion of his Uniondale home by a gang he thought might have been the vicious “MS-13.” He said the whole deal happened as he was about to drive his cousin home.

“I went around and went into the house, ran upstairs and told my wife to call the police. I get the gun and I go outside and I come into the doorway and now, by this time, they are in the driveway, back here near the house. I tell them, you know, ‘Can you please leave?’ Grier said.

Grier said the five men dared him to use the gun; and that their shouts brought another larger group of gang members in front of his house.

“He starts threatening my family, my life. ‘Oh you’re dead. I’m gonna kill your family and your babies. You’re dead.’ So when he says that, 20 others guys come rushing around the corner. And so I fired four warning shots into the grass,” Grier said.

Grier was later arrested. John Lewis is Grier’s attorney.

“What he’s initially charged with – A D felony reckless endangerment — requires a depraved indifference to human life, creating a risk that someone’s going to die. Shooting into a lawn doesn’t create a risk of anybody dying,” Lewis said.

Grier said he knew Nassau County Police employ the hi-tech “ShotSpotter” technology in his area and that the shooting would bring police in minutes. Cops told Guzman he was very cooperative.

Grier also said he was afraid the gang outside his house was the dreaded MS-13. And Nassau County Police Lt. Andrew Mulraine, head of the gang unit, said MS-13 has 2,000 members in the county.

“They’re probably the most organized. They almost have a military hierarchy within the gang, so they are the most organized gang we encounter on a daily basis,” Mulraine said.

You may think a person has the right to defend their home. But the law says you can only use physical force to deter physical force. Grier said he never saw anyone pull out a gun, so a court would have to decide on firing the gun.

Police determined Grier had the gun legally. He has no criminal record. And so he was not charged for the weapon.

That ShotSpotter technology pinpoints where a gun has been fired within 35 feet. Police said it also detected two other shootings in nearby Roosevelt that night.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:03:52 PM EDT
The man needs a suppressor and a backhoe.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:04:35 PM EDT
I don't get it, didn't the article say he obtained it legally?

Who the fuck knows with these idiot reporters.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:04:56 PM EDT
Everybody should read this. No warning shots, you either fear for your life or you don't.

MS13... 2,000 members in the county


Note to self, buy more ammo.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:05:42 PM EDT
How fucking ridiculous. 20+ Bangers smells of "intent" to me. Then again, it is NY.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:06:18 PM EDT
Story needs more Darwin.

Hi powered AK then what do they call a FN Fal
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:07:06 PM EDT
Going outside to confront men on your property.. then discharging it would catch you some shit here too...

He should have never gone outside and never pulled the trigger unless he intended to stop them because he was in fear for his life... He fired warning shots so he must not have been that afraid....
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:07:40 PM EDT
If I had to worry about a group of 20 guys coming into my home, I'd be buying some razor wire, concrete/rebar, a tripod, and something to fit on that tripod.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:08:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EHilderbrand:
How fucking ridiculous. 20+ Bangers smells of "intent" to me. Then again, it is NY.


up until he walked outside to confront them and fired warning shots..
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:08:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Story needs more Darwin.

Hi powered AK then what do they call a FN Fal


It's the media, so they'd call it an AK.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:08:17 PM EDT
20+ "gang members" gathered in my lawn with one saying he will kill me and mine? He shot into the grass? He is a better man than I.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:08:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 3:11:20 PM EDT by wicketsurplus]
Originally Posted By EHilderbrand:
How fucking ridiculous. 20+ Bangers smells of "intent" to me. Then again, it is NY.


NY sucks, you are only allowed to lawfully be a victim.



Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:09:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:10:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EHilderbrand:
How fucking ridiculous. 20+ Bangers smells of "intent" to me. Then again, it is NY.



No doubt. If I have 20 bangers on my property and they start closing the gap...armed or not I will start shooting. Talk about major disparity of force.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:10:21 PM EDT
they'll be back. he'll be unarmed.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:10:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 3:13:11 PM EDT by Remyrw]
It's very simple. "I was in fear for my life and in fear for the lives of my family. I want to speak to my lawyer." He shouldn't have fired unless there was a weapon in view (or they were advancing on him) since the police were already on their way (I hope, given the call), but I consider that completely secondary to defending his life and that of his family. The lawyer's right about the charges too, trying to show that he was endangering them means that they were committing criminal trespassing. Going further, not complying with his instructions to leave with a weapon pointed at them clearly indicates disregard for their own safety. If they'd complied and were no longer threatening him and trespassing on his property there would not have been any reason for the gunfire, or even for the firearm to be out.
And I am pretty sure there's a lot more than 2k MS13 in this country these days. Though maybe only 2k not in prison at any given moment. Still seems rather low from what I know of them.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:10:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By diaz_aa:
20+ "gang members" gathered in my lawn with one saying he will kill me and mine? He shot into the grass? He is a better man than I.

Yeah. I'd have started to figure which ones were closest, and which I could hit before I had to reload, etc.

Then I'd have to run up to work and grab the backhoe.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:11:49 PM EDT
Sure glad I live in cornandbeanville.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:12:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Remyrw:
It's very simple. "I was in fear for my life and in fear for the lives of my family. I want to speak to my lawyer." He shouldn't have fired unless there was a weapon in view (or they were advancing on him) since the police were already on their way (I hope, given the call), but I consider that completely secondary to defending his life and that of his family. The lawyer's right about the charges too, trying to show that he was endangering them means that they were committing criminal trespassing. Going further, not complying with his instructions to leave with a weapon pointed at them clearly indicates disregard for their own safety. If they'd complied and were no longer threatening him and trespassing on his property there would not have been any reason for the gunfire, or even for the firearm to be out.


There were 20 of them. One of the 20 that survived took the gun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:12:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Remyrw:
It's very simple. "I was in fear for my life and in fear for the lives of my family. I want to speak to my lawyer." He shouldn't have fired unless there was a weapon in view (or they were advancing on him) since the police were already on their way (I hope, given the call), but I consider that completely secondary to defending his life and that of his family. The lawyer's right about the charges too, trying to show that he was endangering them means that they were committing criminal trespassing. Going further, not complying with his instructions to leave with a weapon pointed at them clearly indicates disregard for their own safety. If they'd complied and were no longer threatening him and trespassing on his property there would not have been any reason for the gunfire, or even for the firearm to be out.


It will take him 3 years and $40,000 dollars to have a 50/50 chance at proving that. Or, "no warning shots".
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:12:50 PM EDT
Not just an AK-47, but a HIGH POWERED AK-47! One shot would've been enough to kill all 20!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:13:49 PM EDT
If there were actually 20+ guys converging on his property as he notes... I dunno.

Seems like it would have been a better idea to back up into the house, close the door, yell to wife/kids to call the cops, and wait to shoot until they start crashing into the house.

Can't imagine the guy would have been arrested if the shooting was done inside his house after someone crashed through the door. I can see how he might not have the time to think it through, though.

Sucks they arrested him for this. IMO, if someone is trespassing, you tell them to leave in no uncertain terms, and they and a squad of buddies starts converging on you... it should be perfectly legal to pull the trigger.

Then again, if I felt the need to pull the trigger, I wouldn't be aiming at the lawn...

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:14:22 PM EDT
If yer gonna whip it out better be prepared to use it to deadly effect...Warning shots dont count excpet to the cop arresting you..
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:15:30 PM EDT
Sounds like he's being charged for discharging a firearm in the city more than anything.

As everyone has said , don't pull the trigger unless it's aimed at someone and they deserve to be deaded.

Sounds like a AK is the appropriate firearm for when 20+ guys are intent on killing you and your family.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:16:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lumper:
Originally Posted By Remyrw:
It's very simple. "I was in fear for my life and in fear for the lives of my family. I want to speak to my lawyer." He shouldn't have fired unless there was a weapon in view (or they were advancing on him) since the police were already on their way (I hope, given the call), but I consider that completely secondary to defending his life and that of his family. The lawyer's right about the charges too, trying to show that he was endangering them means that they were committing criminal trespassing. Going further, not complying with his instructions to leave with a weapon pointed at them clearly indicates disregard for their own safety. If they'd complied and were no longer threatening him and trespassing on his property there would not have been any reason for the gunfire, or even for the firearm to be out.


There were 20 of them. One of the 20 that survived took the gun.


I'm not sure if you're saying that should have been his story or is what happened, since I don't see anything like that in the article. If he has to fire at that point he's probably dead right there or soon after, hopefully he's good enough to take a few of them with him and his family can get out of there.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:16:41 PM EDT
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:16:47 PM EDT
This story is fucked up on many levels. Just glad I don't live in New York.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:19:56 PM EDT
I thought the article said he fired the warning shots to also set off the firearm alarm and locating device (whatever it's called) so the police would come quicker.

If more than 20 gang members were advancing on my home, I would have opened fire on them. Disparity of force is obvious even if (unlikely) I'm the only armed person there.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:23:01 PM EDT
Hope the guy gets off.

That said, fuckin 20 assholes trespassing on my property, and Im NOT suppose to go outside??

Fuck that , this is my little corner of the world and if I dont want you on it, youre going to leave, or I will fear for my life .

My place in that situation IS outside. My family is inside calling the cops and itll be over my dead body that those fucksticks get into my house in the first place.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:24:02 PM EDT
In Texas, he would have been seen as a hero !
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:24:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.

Whoa there big city thinker. Does your statement apply to rural homes and farms?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:24:59 PM EDT
20 men in my yard telling me that they are going to kill me/mine. Legal, not legal, weapons, no weapons it doesn't matter because I am shooting to kill. I would rather spend the rest of my life in jail then to get killed by fucking scum on my own property.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:25:33 PM EDT
Doesnt NY have a 10 round magazine limit law? if so 20 guys with 7 live rounds would be an interesting geometry problem... that or AK magazine changes that would make jerry micutec feel slow...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:26:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.


Code Enforcement is going to tell you to call the cops, Einstein.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:26:08 PM EDT
If you're firing "warning shots" then you shouldn't be shooting.

When it's time to shoot, shoot.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:26:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Everybody should read this. No warning shots, you either fear for your life or you don't.

MS13... 2,000 members in the county


Note to self, buy more ammo.


2nd note: Time to go class 3
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:27:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fsjdw2:
Doesnt NY have a 10 round magazine limit law? if so 20 guys with 7 live rounds would be an interesting geometry problem... that or AK magazine changes that would make jerry micutec feel slow...


Nothing makes Jerry Miculek look slow. I feel ashamed every time I see his revolver record.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:28:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dsteelman:
Hope the guy gets off.

That said, fuckin 20 assholes trespassing on my property, and Im NOT suppose to go outside??

Fuck that , this is my little corner of the world and if I dont want you on it, youre going to leave, or I will fear for my life .

My place in that situation IS outside. My family is inside calling the cops and itll be over my dead body that those fucksticks get into my house in the first place.



So you would walk into a crowd of 20 + bad guys on your yard to tell them to fuck off when you beleived they were there to fuck you up? That seems like a poor tactical choice.. Seems wiser to bunker down lock and load and pray the police show up before they start kicking in the door. At least inside the home you have some concealment to fire from.. if they hit the door or a window then you can unload from a concealed position.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:28:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.


Are you trying to parody your own past asinine statements?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:29:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 3:31:05 PM EDT by delemorte]
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:

Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.

Whoa there big city thinker. Does your statement apply to rural homes and farms?


I think your sarcasim meter is broken.. Please calibrate.

edit... see below.. i think he is serious... Carry on..
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:30:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 3:30:43 PM EDT by EXPcustom]

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.


Are you trying to parody your own past asinine statements?
No reason for warning shoots, Code Enforcement is the cops, I stand by my remark,


Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:32:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Grey_Man:
Not just an AK-47, but a HIGH POWERED AK-47! One shot would've been enough to kill all 20!


So he was using a PSL?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:33:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Texas_Rick:
In Texas, he would have been seen as a hero !


Not in Austin. Thank goodness I don't live there and my parents finally moved back home to retire.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:33:17 PM EDT
He should have tossed them a gun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:33:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoshD:
If I had to worry about a group of 20 guys coming into my home, I'd be buying some razor wire, concrete/rebar, a tripod, and something to fit on that tripod.

mk19
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:34:15 PM EDT
That ShotSpotter technology pinpoints where a gun has been fired within 35 feet.


Never heard of this before.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:35:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.


We had no doubts.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:36:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:36:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.

I have a range on my lawn.

Don't they have those in the city?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:42:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:44:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
If I see you firing your AK into your lawn I am calling Code Enforcement, I don't care what the circumstances are.


Are you trying to parody your own past asinine statements?
No reason for warning shoots, Code Enforcement is the cops, I stand by my remark,




You usually are pretty elaborate with your trolling, but try to come up with new material in order to be less obvious. You'll reel more in that way. Just trying to help.
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