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Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 10:48:42 AM EDT by 4Kilo12]
Keep in mind in that all existing fed laws would still apply and to split hairs you would be denying someone's rights based on being in a database that they :
1. Have no judicial remedy to be removed from
2. Have no criminal convictions <edit> Felony or DV offenses that would preclude one Fed wise

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:55 AM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:43:58 AM EDT
nope

no due process
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:10 AM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:12 AM EDT
Fuck no.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:34 AM EDT
just a curiosity of mine
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:45:07 AM EDT
Interesting premise, but in real life #2 does not apply: If they're on a gangbanger database, they're usually the ones who are "frequent fliers" with the cops and jail staff.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:45:23 AM EDT
So what happens when ARFcom is suddenly considered a gang? Or the NRA?

Bad fucking idea.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:45:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
nope

no due process


2nd post nails it
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:46:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GarandM1:
Interesting premise, but in real life #2 does not apply: If they're on a gangbanger database, they're usually the ones who are "frequent fliers" with the cops and jail staff.



In fact over 40% of the entries of the last one I saw had no priors and a good portion of those had no entries period
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:47:38 AM EDT
Not unless getting put on the list requires a felony conviction.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:48:32 AM EDT
FYI most gang members are juveniles anyway.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:48:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VacaDuck:
So what happens when ARFcom is suddenly considered a gang? Or the NRA?

Bad fucking idea.

Bingo.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:48:35 AM EDT
"arfcom is a gang"
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:49:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bcw107:
FYI most gang members are juveniles anyway.


true but many fit in the 18-21 range
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:51:11 AM EDT
hell no

I don't even agree with the "felony=no guns" rule absolutely applied.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:54:21 AM EDT
No. There is a price to pay for living in a free society.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:58:00 AM EDT
It would be another no-fly list. Arbitrary conditions to get on, possibly no way to know you are on, and no mechanism to appeal your inclusion.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:00:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
No. There is a price to pay for living in a free society.

And if more people embraced their freedom, fewer could abuse it.

Huge problems with forfeiting rights without due process too. Even with the best of intentions, mis-/re-interpretations are a huge risk, and it would be a massive precedential stepping stone for eviscerating other areas of constitutional rights if challenges failed. That said, I think even the most activist court would have to can it. You'd need like 5 Sotos, 3 Kagans and a Stalin to find this constitutional.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:15:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:16:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By joker581:
No. There is no system in place to ensure that people who end up in such a database are actual gangmembers at all, nor is simple gang membership even a crime in most places.

I remember guys that I hung out with in middle school making up a name for our little neighborhood crew and then promptly having their names turned over to the local PD's gang task force to be listed with all of the guys that were out shooting people over territory. For all I know, my name might be on the gang database.


Mine is in a specific locale I was told it's because I had the bad luck to have a recycled boost mobile #
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:47:21 AM EDT
No. The criteria for call you a gang member may be spelled out in the law but there is no conviction required. It just takes an officer checking the gang affiliation on the FI card to make it a gang. How bout the criteria become being convicted of a gang related crime.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:51:38 AM EDT
a gang database should be limited to those behind bars. Quit playing catch and release with criminals and there would be no need to worry about who's trying to buy a gun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:57:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:57:31 AM EDT by Cyclic240B]

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
nope

no due process

This. No due process. And it is a slippery slope to stand upon. "Officials" love word play and this site/membership, the NRA, veterans, and the Tea Party would be included on the list by the second day.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:04:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 4Kilo12:
Keep in mind in that all existing fed laws would still apply and to split hairs you would be denying someone's rights based on being in a database that they :
1. Have no judicial remedy to be removed from
2. Have no criminal convictions <edit> Felony or DV offenses that would preclude one Fed wise



Fuck no. There is a process known as Due Process that your suggestion violates like a mother fucker. It's no better than the Lautenburg Law which is unConstitutional as hell itself.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:10:46 PM EDT
A law like that might reduce the number of thugs I have to kick out of my shop.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:18:58 PM EDT
I'm listed as an associate of a gang member, because my brother is a shithead. It doesn't matter that I haven't had contact with him in years, whenever he's in trouble I get a phone call asking if I know his whereabouts. "Sorry, haven't talked to him in years. I dont want to be associated with him"

So lets say you get your way and associates of gang members become prohibited persons . . . . . I don't associate with him, but I'm listed as an associate because I can't pick my family. Thanks, my efforts to be a law abiding citizen are for naught, because of a police database.

Seeking to deprive anyone of their right to bear arms is an offense against the constitution.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:19:43 PM EDT
One thing to remember about bureaucracy is that the processes you set up today will not always be controlled by you or your allies...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:35:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By joker581:
No. There is no system in place to ensure that people who end up in such a database are actual gangmembers at all, nor is simple gang membership even a crime in most places.

I remember guys that I hung out with in middle school making up a name for our little neighborhood crew and then promptly having their names turned over to the local PD's gang task force to be listed with all of the guys that were out shooting people over territory. For all I know, my name might be on the gang database.


+1 my friends and I were also put in the gang database in middle school because we hung around town in highly visible places wearing similar clothing. There were no gangs in our town, but our county had a huge gang problem so every town was under pressure to identify possible gangs. In fact a few years later I found out from a high school buddy who volunteered for the local PD that I was listed as the most dangerous juvenile in the town
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:49:16 PM EDT
Nope.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:56:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snakes19:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
nope

no due process


2nd post nails it

THIS!

I used to associate with a group of kids who were in a car club that associated with the street racing scene. When the cops started to crack down on racing locally, they tried to classify them as a "criminal street gang". Other then racing, none of them were involved in any criminal activity, yet they were all detained, photgraphed and documented as gang bangers. All of them grew up and moved on to other things, but I would bet there is a file somewhere with all of their info at the local PD's gang unit.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:44:23 AM EDT
No.
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