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Posted: 9/7/2010 7:54:46 AM EDT
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:55:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 7:56:15 AM EDT by mhoffman]
Is this going to be another one of those "I'm the only real conservative on a website with over 2k on it at any given point in the day" threads?

_MaH
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:55:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mhoffman:
Is this going to be another one of those "I'm the only real conservative on a website with over 2k on it at any given point in the day" threads?

_MaH


Usually is.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:57:50 AM EDT
I think its more like (Do we agree that there are more than a couple of Regular posters who are left of Bill Mahr & Gavin Newsome)
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:58:26 AM EDT
Communist propagandists.....yes
They are slick but not slick enough, I've seen them post.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:02:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:06:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:07:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:09:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 8:09:35 AM EDT by cyborg543]
Arfcom GD is often basically the same as the DU website.

Lots of emotionally charged keyboard pounding and name calling, not too much logic and facts.

Remember the thread on the Kent State massacre? Where everyone agreed that "them hippies had it comin"?

That was pretty much an example of DU-ishness, where everyone embraced a nonsensical, emotional, fact-free version of that event and called it good.

I'm a conservative but I don't accept anything until after I find out the facts and decide for myself.

I think GWB was a bad president, I voted for him twice and I've decided to never vote for another big government RINO. To a lot of the keyboard pounders here that makes me a "commie".

once a guy starts name-calling, you know he's got nothing worthwhile to say.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:11:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 8:12:44 AM EDT by Calgunner]
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Arfcom GD is often basically the same as the DU website.

Lots of emotionally charged keyboard pounding and name calling, not too much logic and facts.

Remember the thread on the Kent State massacre? Where everyone agreed that "them hippies had it comin"?

That was pretty much an example of DU-ishness, where everyone embraced a nonsensical, emotional, fact-free version of that event and called it good.

I'm a conservative but I don't accept anything until after I find out the facts and decide for myself.

I think GWB was a bad president, I voted for him twice and I've decided to never vote for another big government RINO. To a lot of the keyboard pounders here that makes me a "commie".

once a guy starts name-calling, you know he's got nothing worthwhile to say.


If I were older I would have voted for George Wallace on his presidential run ,does that make me a Democrat ? (I may have regreted it later like you did but I would have done it like you )
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:12:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 8:13:19 AM EDT by cyborg543]
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?


No nanny state for you except when it comes to pot smoking. Then you're all for it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:13:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?


No nanny state for except when it comes to pot smoking. Then you're all for it.

Uh, ok ... so
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:21:45 AM EDT
you are all a bunch of dirty hippies

















Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:39:59 AM EDT
And the Dirtiest ones are not even from California ...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:43:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:49:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
A number of people on this site don't really have the slightest idea what words like "socialism" and "communism" mean, other than "stuff I don't like"


I'd be surprised if there's anyone on this site who is a full-blown supporter of communism.

On the other hand, depending on how you want to define "socialism" the supporters of that on this site range anywhere from 90% to less than 10%. Lots of people on this site support things like Medicare, public school, ethanol subsidies, child tax credits, and all kinds of other wealth redistribution based on the "greater good" arguments.


Well...I think communism is an interesting idea, though given human tendencies, could never be successful. I wrote a paper on the subject in grad school comparing various attempts at communism through the centuries to each other.

The only time I saw it modeled successfully was in very small groups of usually related individuals.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:10:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Slavac:
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
A number of people on this site don't really have the slightest idea what words like "socialism" and "communism" mean, other than "stuff I don't like"


I'd be surprised if there's anyone on this site who is a full-blown supporter of communism.

On the other hand, depending on how you want to define "socialism" the supporters of that on this site range anywhere from 90% to less than 10%. Lots of people on this site support things like Medicare, public school, ethanol subsidies, child tax credits, and all kinds of other wealth redistribution based on the "greater good" arguments.


Well...I think communism is an interesting idea, though given human tendencies, could never be successful. I wrote a paper on the subject in grad school comparing various attempts at communism through the centuries to each other.

The only time I saw it modeled successfully was in very small groups of usually related individuals.



Communism is a beautiful fantasy. The problems occur when it encounters reality. Communism at it's core goes against human nature in every way possible.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:13:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 10:14:41 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:15:42 AM EDT
IBYTYSAHCIFOC

In Before You Tell Your Story About How Calguns Is Full Of Commies
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:20:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
A number of people on this site don't really have the slightest idea what words like "socialism" and "communism" mean, other than "stuff I don't like"


I'd be surprised if there's anyone on this site who is a full-blown supporter of communism.

On the other hand, depending on how you want to define "socialism" the supporters of that on this site range anywhere from 90% to less than 10%. Lots of people on this site support things like Medicare, public school, ethanol subsidies, child tax credits, and all kinds of other wealth redistribution based on the "greater good" arguments.


Socialism is an acceptable ideal when, and only when:

1) The proceeds that fund it benefit the community as a whole, and

2) When it is openly available to anyone, regardless of personal situation, when needed.

Examples of these would be a public school system, and Fire/Police/EMS/SAR, respectively.

It is to the benefit of a community as a whole to have its inhabitants educated - even if you are not related to any of them. Better to have little Billy learn math, science, and other core concepts so that he can grow up to turn a wrench as a mechanic, than for little Billy to have no future, what-so-ever, and turn to a gang and/or crime to provide for himself as he doesn't know anything else.

Fire/Police/EMS/SAR will respond to you, if summoned, regardless of who you are. The only instances in which they will not respond is if you are contacting them for a reason outside of their mission (i.e.: "Send a policeman to clean up the garbage that's strewn across my lawn"). Likewise, these services also benefit the community as a house on fire down the street might not concern you personally, untill it spreads to the neighboring houses, which includes yours.

Socialism, under these conditions, is something that the American culture has come to accept and support at large. Primarily, if not solely, because these efforts benefit the community, and are not services which one can become "addicted" to.

Welfare, and other programs that just give out the money without any kind of limitation or incentive to improve ones life and get off of it, is an abomination to free society and has absolutely no benefit to it what-so-ever.

_MaH
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:20:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By Slavac:
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
A number of people on this site don't really have the slightest idea what words like "socialism" and "communism" mean, other than "stuff I don't like"


I'd be surprised if there's anyone on this site who is a full-blown supporter of communism.

On the other hand, depending on how you want to define "socialism" the supporters of that on this site range anywhere from 90% to less than 10%. Lots of people on this site support things like Medicare, public school, ethanol subsidies, child tax credits, and all kinds of other wealth redistribution based on the "greater good" arguments.


Well...I think communism is an interesting idea, though given human tendencies, could never be successful. I wrote a paper on the subject in grad school comparing various attempts at communism through the centuries to each other.

The only time I saw it modeled successfully was in very small groups of usually related individuals.



There seems to be little doubt that communism is fundamentally at odds with human nature, and can simply not function at all, unless (as you point out), it's implemented at a clan/family level - and even then it probably won't last in the long run. The only reason things like kibbutzes "work" in Israel is that (a) they have a constant influx of young idealists - most of whom eventually leave, but get replaced by new ones, and (b) they get state subsidies. As a steady state and self-sufficient system they cannot work in the long run.

It seems to me that anyone who truly believes in and wants to implement ACTUAL communism, is probably close to being somewhere between shockingly ignorant and actually insane, because it simply cannot work. Believing in it requires a stunning level of total ignorance of human nature, economics and motivation. It's like wanting to grow wings and fly to the moon while holding your breath.


Agreed however economically, communism is fiesable HOWEVER the system has to function flawlessly which it never can for the reasons you've stated above.

Great idea, but impractical. Sort of like a woman made entirely of breasts.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:21:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Slavac:
Great idea, but impractical. Sort of like a woman made entirely of breasts.


That could be the wittiest and funniest thing I've ever read online

_MaH
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:22:03 AM EDT
I've never seen this thread, before...

It's fresh and new.


Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:22:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:23:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slavac:

Agreed however economically, communism is fiesable HOWEVER the system has to function flawlessly which it never can for the reasons you've stated above.

Great idea, but impractical. Sort of like a woman made entirely of breasts.



I'm listening...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:26:33 AM EDT
There will be some good pissing matches in this thread...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:27:29 AM EDT
Ohh yeah, we have some commie pinko fags here for sure.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:27:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 10:28:19 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:36:55 AM EDT
For some reason this thread reminded me of the "Anarcho Communist" dork with the illegal SBS on his website.

I just almost would be willing to put money on the first bannage not doing the job.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:37:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By storminnorman:
There will be some good pissing matches in this thread...


We've moved on from whatever boring topic the thread was originally about.

Now it's about a woman made entirely of breasts!


Try to keep up.


Just picture her doing jumping jacks while you smell bacon frying.

I'm gonna need a bigger mop bucket
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:39:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?


A few of those things contradict each other.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:44:35 AM EDT
I am a conservative libertarian who opposes open borders until we dismantle our welfare state.

If you think I am a lefty then thats on you not me.

My whole opinion as far as "lefty" social issues is that it isn't the damn business of the government.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:47:45 AM EDT
With the exception of a select few here, most don't have a clue about what they're talking about. They're just regurgitating what they've been told and do a very good job at it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:50:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
Is this going to be another one of those "I'm the only real conservative on a website with over 2k on it at any given point in the day" threads?

_MaH


Soon to become a bumper sticker slogan war...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:19:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?


You're against open borders? I'm against a welfare state that makes the looters want to come here in the first place, and the WoD that makes the gangsters want to come here in the first place. The producers are welcome to come on. As long as we have a welfare state the looters will keep coming, no matter how many guns you put down there, and as long as drugs are illegal to manufacture and sell domestically, the gangsters will continue to import the drugs and export our money.

You're against gay marriage? I'm against marriage licenses. Your against gay couples getting the same tax breaks as straight couples? I'm against the income tax. You're against your church or any other church wedding a gay couple? I'm against the idea that if someone else's church wants to wed gay couples that it's any of my business what happens in the walls of someone else's church.

You're against Draconian firearms restrictions? I'm against firearms restrictions.

You're against the nanny state? I'm against the DEA trying to save idiots from themselves.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:22:20 PM EDT
A couple years ago there was a member who claimed to be a real socialist. It was amusing to debate with him.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:27:08 PM EDT
Yay, another Arfcom red hunt. Who the fuck cares? The compulsive need for folks at this place to have one, monolithic world view is just a step away from a cult if you ask me. Imagine there are those here who have vastly different experiences and world views from yours and that you can coexist with them.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:35:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?


You're against open borders? I'm against a welfare state that makes the looters want to come here in the first place, and the WoD that makes the gangsters want to come here in the first place. The producers are welcome to come on. As long as we have a welfare state the looters will keep coming, no matter how many guns you put down there, and as long as drugs are illegal to manufacture and sell domestically, the gangsters will continue to import the drugs and export our money.

You're against gay marriage? I'm against marriage licenses. Your against gay couples getting the same tax breaks as straight couples? I'm against the income tax. You're against your church or any other church wedding a gay couple? I'm against the idea that if someone else's church wants to wed gay couples that it's any of my business what happens in the walls of someone else's church.

You're against Draconian firearms restrictions? I'm against firearms restrictions.

You're against the nanny state? I'm against the DEA trying to save idiots from themselves.


+1
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:36:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By Slavac:
...

Great idea, but impractical. Sort of like a woman made entirely of breasts.


I was with you up to the end, but now you're on your own.


I was against you from the beginning.

Communism is an evil, disgusting, morally bankrupt idea that involves giving the state complete power over the individual.

It is a form of slavery from start to finish.

What possible legitimate reason could one man have to rob another man of the fruit of his labor? His neediness?

Great idea, my ass.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:42:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DarkNite:
Yay, another Arfcom red hunt. Who the fuck cares? The compulsive need for folks at this place to have one, monolithic world view is just a step away from a cult if you ask me. Imagine there are those here who have vastly different experiences and world views from yours and that you can coexist with them.


Bono,... is that you?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:44:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jeffco55:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By brasscrossedrifles:
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
We all know there are Left Leaning & Middle left folks here & even Libertarians who trend left on social issues but can we say that there are Full blown "Far Left" or Socialist/Marxist leaning Progressives too ?


Your concept of left and right is all fucked up if you think you are further to the right than I am on pretty much any issue you can think of.

I'm a raging Libertarian.

And the answer to your question is: just the trolls.


I'm a Nationalist Conservative Republican who is not for Open Borders ,Choice ,Gay Marrage, Draconian firearms restrictions, or Statist Nanny State government rule, How bout you ?


You're against open borders? I'm against a welfare state that makes the looters want to come here in the first place, and the WoD that makes the gangsters want to come here in the first place. The producers are welcome to come on. As long as we have a welfare state the looters will keep coming, no matter how many guns you put down there, and as long as drugs are illegal to manufacture and sell domestically, the gangsters will continue to import the drugs and export our money.

You're against gay marriage? I'm against marriage licenses. Your against gay couples getting the same tax breaks as straight couples? I'm against the income tax. You're against your church or any other church wedding a gay couple? I'm against the idea that if someone else's church wants to wed gay couples that it's any of my business what happens in the walls of someone else's church.

You're against Draconian firearms restrictions? I'm against firearms restrictions.

You're against the nanny state? I'm against the DEA trying to save idiots from themselves.


+1


+2
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