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Posted: 9/5/2010 6:50:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 7:33:24 AM EDT by xpired]
The Wood County Sheriff’s Department has released video of a Wisconsin Rapids police officer’s shooting of a 16-year-old boy who was carrying a knife.

At 2:59 a.m. Aug. 15, a Wisconsin Rapids officer responded to the report of three people attacking a vehicle and one person threatening a man with a knife.

Wisconsin Rapids Officer Rod Krakow, a 22-year veteran of the department, encountered a 16-year-old boy on Gaynor Avenue.

In the video taken from Krakow’s squad car, Krakow can be heard repeatedly telling the teenager to drop the knife and get to the ground. He tells another officer to "tase him” just before the teenager lunges with the knife at the officer.

Wood County Sheriff’s Department Investigator-Sgt. Scott Machotka said the teenager was about 18 feet from the officer when he lunged forward. He was 12 feet away from Krakow when the first shot was fired and fell to the ground about four feet from Krakow.

The teenager remained in fair condition today at Saint Joseph’s Hospital in Marshfield

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=97d_1283635571



Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:53:59 AM EDT
Good shoot.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:54:32 AM EDT
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:56:16 AM EDT
Wow. Doesn't get any cleaner than that!

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:56:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.

This, he would have been able to stab the officer if his gun was holster, luckily he did already have the gun pointed at him.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:56:25 AM EDT
The 21 foot rule assumes you are starting from a holstered sidearm. The officer in this case had his weapon drawn and on target. How does that " bust" anything?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:56:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jeffreysox:
Good shoot.


You know what?

I gotta agree with this guy.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:57:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.


This, and it was still pretty close. I think this does more to confirm the rule than it does to bust it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:57:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.


Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:57:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jeffreysox:
Good shoot.


I concur.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:57:54 AM EDT
Good shoot, but the 21 foot rule applies when the shooter goes from draw to trigger pull. The officer in this vid had already has his weapon drawn and aimed.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:59:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jeffreysox:
Good shoot.


absolutely +1

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:59:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:01:55 AM EDT
I liked the leg twitch.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:03:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:05:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
I liked the leg twitch.


Yep, noticed that.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:06:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rock71:
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.


This, and it was still pretty close. I think this does more to confirm the rule than it does to bust it.


100%


"The teenager remained in fair condition today at Saint Joseph’s Hospital in Marshfield"....................Really?............
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:07:30 AM EDT
Busted my muscular buttocks.

Had fat boy any real aggressiveness to him he could still have closed with the cop, grappled him and stabbed the crap out of him. Unless pudgy took a round thru the spine he fell down because he thought he was supposed to fall down, not because his body couldn't keep him in the fight. As it was he still only fell over about 4 feet from the copper. Talk about way close. Even with a perfect heart shot a truly motivated attacker still has that dead man's 10 - 15 seconds in which to be a threat. If you've ever been in a fight you know just how long 10 seconds can be.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:09:59 AM EDT
Tag for home
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:11:09 AM EDT
Bad shoot...kid lived...we kill them dead here
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:11:45 AM EDT
Engaging in training with charging targets confirmed the 21ft rule for me.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:13:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DV8:
Good shoot, but the 21 foot rule applies when the shooter goes from draw to trigger pull. The officer in this vid had already has his weapon drawn and aimed.

If the officer had had to take time to draw (about 1.5 seconds), the suspect would have been able to stab him.

This is a clear example of the Teuller test holding true.

IE, when facing a knife armed suspect, at 21 feet you had better have your gun drawn. Some say 30 feet is a better minimum distance.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:13:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 7:15:09 AM EDT by reelserious]
Don't run at a cop with a knife, especially when cop already has gun drawn.


I guess that fat kid will learn that lesson now.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:13:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By grumpycoconut:
Busted my muscular buttocks.

Had fat boy any real aggressiveness to him he could still have closed with the cop, grappled him and stabbed the crap out of him. Unless pudgy took a round thru the spine he fell down because he thought he was supposed to fall down, not because his body couldn't keep him in the fight. As it was he still only fell over about 4 feet from the copper. Talk about way close. Even with a perfect heart shot a truly motivated attacker still has that dead man's 10 - 15 seconds in which to be a threat. If you've ever been in a fight you know just how long 10 seconds can be.


this, except for that first line which was just odd.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:13:44 AM EDT
couple of comments

1 - Good shoot

2 - as above the 21ft "rule" includes a holstered weapon

3 - i look at the 21 foot "rule" like the pirate code - more of a guideline than an actual rule, there are some people who could shoot you dead before you got 5 feet towards them and some that you could run across a foot ball field before they could get a shot on you.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:14:33 AM EDT
Four feet is still a little close for comfort to me.

-1 for the kid not being DRT, 9/10
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:16:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:17:45 AM EDT
Thread title FAIL.

The officer had his gun drawn and on target.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:18:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Engaging in training with charging targets confirmed the 21ft rule for me.


Is this the highly instructive white T-shirt vs. charging attacker w/gigantic red magic marker lesson?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:21:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jeffreysox:
Good shoot.

+1
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:22:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MP0117:
Thread title FAIL.

The officer had his gun drawn and on target.

+1000...... 21 foot rule does not apply.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:26:58 AM EDT
Title is misleading. This isnt graphic. It did in fact.. need more lead.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:27:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Engaging in training with charging targets confirmed the 21ft rule for me.


Yup.

Went shooting with some friends and one guy had a really fun drill. You need about 50 feet of paracord, a carabiner (not required, just handy) and several bottles of 99cent store soda-bright stuff, like orange soda, a shooter and a helper. You tie the paracord around the neck of the bottle, set the bottle about 25 feet or so out, and run the other end of the paracord through the carabiner clipped to the shooter's belt loop (or run the cord right through the belt loop.

The shooter starts with a holstered pistol, and for the first couple rounds, it's kind of like shooting clays-you say go, the helper takes off running 90* to the shooter while holding the end of the paracord. The object of the game is to draw and kill the soda bottle before it gets to you. Sounds fairly easy to do until you realize that the bottle is bouncing randomly toward you. The farther away from you the bottle is when you hit it, the less orange soda you get covered with.

When you can reliably kill the bottle, add a second one (need a second helper) and put it off at an angle from the first-remember, no matter where you put it, it's still going to move toward the shooter.

Just remember, don't target fixate and shoot yourself in the foot. Also, make sure the guy running knows when to stop-being hit in the balls by a 2 liter bottle of soda that you missed wouldn't be good. Funny, but not good.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:31:05 AM EDT
His fat saved him.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:31:22 AM EDT
How exactly is the 21 ft rule busted? The officer already had his gun out? You should change your title.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:32:42 AM EDT
Dumbass kid.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:33:50 AM EDT
My bad, didn't realize he had already drawn down. Title changed
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:36:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Engaging in training with charging targets confirmed the 21ft rule for me.


Is this the highly instructive white T-shirt vs. charging attacker w/gigantic red magic marker lesson?
No, this is the mechanically rigged, live fire type charging target, pulled by a person running at full speed.

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:37:09 AM EDT

I wonder what made the kid drop ie. if it was a spine hit, pain, etc. He went down hard.

"If you're looking for trouble, you've come to the right place."
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:37:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jeffreysox:
Good shoot.


Nope.... he's still moving
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:38:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:39:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:42:30 AM EDT
We teach 30 feet, but like mentioned above, it's a guideline.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:44:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By rock71:
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.


This, and it was still pretty close. I think this does more to confirm the rule than it does to bust it.


The rule is out dated, it needs to be 30 feet.

No argument there.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:46:46 AM EDT
Dumb kid. Did he think if he managed to kill officer 1 that officer 2 wouldn't shoot him?

Anybody notice the cop kept closing distance on the guy. Thats the last thing I'd do with someoen with a knife. The beauty of a gun is that it allows distance. If you want to get close to someone with a kinfe you'd be better served with a sword than a pistol. Advancing on him makes no sense.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:46:57 AM EDT
Watch the second officer on the right. He appears to have his hand on his holstered gun before the guy attacked and the fight was over for a good 7 seconds before he had it cleared. He was jerking the hell out of it and it looks like maybe he couldn't get the retention strap/release button unsnapped. That guy would have needed more like 75 feet to engage without getting stabbed.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:49:06 AM EDT
Yeah, most cop's retention rigs that guy would have closed before he could have engaged.
I think that dude wanted to die.
Sucks for the cop.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:49:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By rock71:
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Yes, but his gun was already drawn.


This, and it was still pretty close. I think this does more to confirm the rule than it does to bust it.


The rule is out dated, it needs to be 30 feet.


Screw that if they are coming at you with a knife you should be able to shoot them at 30 yards. We taught the 21' rule but it was a guideline.

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:55:55 AM EDT


I wonder if Shit-for-Brains will respect authority now?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:59:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 8:02:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeBear:


I wonder if Shit-for-Brains will respect authority now?


Hopefully he's paralyzed or dies from infection.
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