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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:29:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 10:29:53 AM EDT by delacrue]
WASHINGTON – The security company Blackwater Worldwide formed a network of 30 shell companies and subsidiaries to try to get millions of dollars in government business after the company faced strong criticism for reckless conduct in Iraq, The New York Times reported Friday.

The newspaper said that it was unclear how many of the created companies got American contracts but that at least three of them obtained work with the U.S. military and the CIA.

Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has asked the Justice Department to see whether Blackwater misled the government when using the subsidiaries to gain government contracts, according to the Times.

It said Levin's committee found that North Carolina-based Blackwater, which now is known as Xe Services, went to great lengths to find ways to get lucrative government work despite criminal charges and criticism stemming from a 2007 incident in which Blackwater guards killed 17 Iraqi civilians. A committee chart outlines the web of Blackwater subsidiaries.

Messages left late Friday with spokespeople for the Michigan Democrat and Xe were not immediately answered.

The 2007 incident and other reports of abuses by Blackwater employees in Iraq led to criminal investigations and congressional hearings, and resulted in the company losing a lucrative contract with the State Department to provide security in Iraq.

But recently the company was awarded a $100 million contract to provide security for the agency in Afghanistan, prompting criticism from some in Congress. CIA Director Leon Panetta said that the CIA had no choice but to hire the company because it underbid others by $26 million and that a CIA review concluded that the contractor had cleaned up its act.

Last year, Panetta canceled a contract with Xe that allowed the company's operatives to load missiles on Predator drones in Pakistan, and shifted the work to government personnel.

However, the Times quoted former Blackwater officials as saying that at least two Blackwater-affiliated companies, XPG and Greystone, obtained secret contracts from the CIA to provide security to agency operatives.

The newspaper said the network of subsidiaries, including several located in offshore tax havens, were uncovered as part of the Armed Services Committee's examination of government contracting and not an investigation solely into Blackwater. But Levin questioned why Blackwater would need to create so many companies with various names to seek out government business, according to the Times.

The report quoted unidentified government officials and former Blackwater employees as saying that the network of companies allowed Blackwater to obscure its involvement in government work from contracting officials and the public, and to ensure a low profile for its classified activities.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_blackwater
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:13:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 11:14:59 AM EDT by lostnswv]
That is apparently only news to the reporter. I swear I have seen blurbs to this effect going back at least three years, once again with words like "secretive" and shit thrown around.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:14:28 AM EDT
Is there something illegal about that?

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:14:42 AM EDT
Pay attention to Blackwater so no one thinks about ACORN.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:15:40 AM EDT
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:15:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Carbine_Emissions:
Pay attention to Blackwater so no one thinks about ACORN.


This. What all those ACORN shell companies?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:18:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....


Didn't General Electric Corp have subsidiaries in Europe that that were doing business with Iran, despite the various embargoes, while the same time GE Corp had business with the USG?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:20:00 AM EDT
murder is big business

it always has been


study history
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:22:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....


Didn't General Electric Corp have subsidiaries in Europe that that were doing business with Iran, despite the various embargoes, while the same time GE Corp had business with the USG?



Most moderate sized businesses have multiple subsidiaries. I don't see why Blackwater would be any different. Securing government contracts and paying taxes are just shell games to big companies. Move stuff around and bend accounting rules to see what you can get away with within the letter of the law.

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:24:55 AM EDT
And so what? IF we wouldnt allow the left to assassinate people via the MSM(slander) maybe theyd not of had to do that

And BTW, BW never lost a principle, cant say that for other firms
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:29:52 AM EDT
So what.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:58:08 AM EDT
In other news; democrat politicians have given contracts to friends, relatives, campaign contributors and racist organizations in every major city who are usually unable to fulfill said contracts.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:01:06 PM EDT
It's YAHOO. Fucking morons, tier 1.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:01:22 PM EDT
A Gov't bailout is 10 times worse than this!
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:26:23 PM EDT
Yes.

In a nutshell, when a company submits a bid it must, in its "representations and certifications" any parent companies or ownership interests. If they don't honestly answer its a Federal crime.

Beyond that, it is common (and illegal) for large companies to try win small business set-aside contracts by creating affiliated (shared ownership and control) "small businesses".

An example would be that Umbrella Corporation wants to bid on a service-disabled veteran owned business (SDVOB) small business set-aside. SO, Umbrella Corp management sets up their VP for Operations "Joe" as a SDVOB and he bids for the contract with Umbrella Corp as his "team member" - but Umbrella writes the bid, provides the past performance. lends him the money for start up costs, employs all the people, does the management, controls and directs the work, etc. While "Joe" runs "his" company from his Umbrella Corporation desk, using his Umbrella phone and Umbrella e-mail.

Another reason companies do this is because the ownership believes they (the ownership) are about to be debarred from Government contracting due to some investigation.

My former employer, the psychotic assclown criminal, had created 10-15 shell businesses for (as he said) "when I'm debarred". Not "if" - "when".

Basically when people do this it's because they want to hide something.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:28:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Most moderate sized businesses have multiple subsidiaries. I don't see why Blackwater would be any different. Securing government contracts and paying taxes are just shell games to big companies. Move stuff around and bend accounting rules to see what you can get away with within the letter of the law.


Never dealt with the Defense Contract Accounting Ageny, have you?

Companies that do that get caught (eventually) and their invoices get denied.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:23:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....


Didn't General Electric Corp have subsidiaries in Europe that that were doing business with Iran, despite the various embargoes, while the same time GE Corp had business with the USG?


Yup, lots of major US and UK corporate entities doing business in Iran.

Yet everybody crying that they are the bad guys. I wonder how many would give back dividend checks from profits generated in Iran from the corporate entities.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:27:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dale007:
So what.


Exactly. Any large company that wants to be a government supplier often creates subsidiaries to provide said services. Lots of legal and valid reasons to do so.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:33:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
It's YAHOO. Fucking morons, tier 1.


No, it's AP. Yahoo and almost every other web site that offers news prints AP articles verbatim.

Almost all the BS you hear on the web originates from a handful of AP articles. AP is a complete fucking joke.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:33:20 PM EDT
It's common practice.. Some contracts cannot be awarded to companies that gross more than X number of dollars.

Or some contracts can't be closed bidding so a company has a hydra of companies bit a few bucks less and when they win, the big company still gets the contract.

So what
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:49:24 PM EDT
Panetta admitted they knew it was Blackwater, so the "OMG, we had no idea...." response is a political BS response to the media catching wind of it. I'd expect any company professionally involved in the spying/killing/security game for the federal gov't would want to break all these activities up among multiple corporations, that way they can cut and run when the shit hits the fan and not have it bring down the entire organization or tie the real masterminds to the actual activity. Not that I'm any kind of expert, it just seems like common sense.

If you wanted to kill your wife, would you use your own gun and put it back in the safe, or steal one to finish her off and dump it in the river?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:03:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Carbine_Emissions:
Pay attention to Blackwater so no one thinks about ACORN.


/thread
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:58:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:00:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
That's a secret?

apparently these reporters have never awarded a government contract. someone should tell them about the SBA and 8A contracts. their heads might explode when they find out about that game
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:14:01 AM EDT
welcome to the world of government contracting

companies form other companies ALL the time to gain contracts. Want to really get pissed off? Look at Mentor Protege Agreements under the DOD...allows big companies to act as a small company to gain contracts in a nutshell..most abused program out there. Why do they do it? So they can document small business / minority spend..then talk about how they support small biz to get re-elected.

gov contracting is one of the most corrupt aspects of our government.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:21:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Most moderate sized businesses have multiple subsidiaries. I don't see why Blackwater would be any different. Securing government contracts and paying taxes are just shell games to big companies. Move stuff around and bend accounting rules to see what you can get away with within the letter of the law.


Never dealt with the Defense Contract Accounting Ageny, have you?

Companies that do that get caught (eventually) and their invoices get denied.



Yeah, and they are so good at their job that they're up to catching 2% of the companies that cheat. Or are you trying to claim that the DCAA is the only government agency in the world that is working at a 100% success rate?

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:34:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....


Didn't General Electric Corp have subsidiaries in Europe that that were doing business with Iran, despite the various embargoes, while the same time GE Corp had business with the USG?


Yes they did.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:35:14 AM EDT
Another company taking advantage of our "efficient" government.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:36:22 AM EDT
Having bid on and won numerous government jobs, I find it hard to believe that you could get away with this.

Maybe I'm naive or the DOD process is different, but you would have to have some serious balls to put your whole livelihood on not getting caught lying on all the forms and signing your name to it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:38:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Most moderate sized businesses have multiple subsidiaries. I don't see why Blackwater would be any different. Securing government contracts and paying taxes are just shell games to big companies. Move stuff around and bend accounting rules to see what you can get away with within the letter of the law.


Never dealt with the Defense Contract Accounting Ageny, have you?

Companies that do that get caught (eventually) and their invoices get denied.



Yeah, and they are so good at their job that they're up to catching 2% of the companies that cheat. Or are you trying to claim that the DCAA is the only government agency in the world that is working at a 100% success rate?


LOL! RIF. "eventually" is the key word.

And DCAA is working at a much higher rate than 2%. 2% is the Congressional committee's rate.

DCAA is focusing on cost plus fixed fee contacts because the President hates them. One of my clients is looking at a 60% invoice rejection rate ' not because they did anything wrog, but becase DCAA has been ordered to.

Are you saying its okay to willfully commit crimes because everyone else is? Or that all Government contractors are crooked?

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:39:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....
The contracting officers most certainly knew
as sub contractors must be listed in the proposal, and they had business that needed Blackwater's special attention. Its not illegal to call a company and ask "Do you partner with any small disadvantaged businesses on a regular basis?"

Kharn

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:41:19 AM EDT
Guess Paravant slippped under the radar until now then huh?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:41:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:


Are you saying its okay to willfully commit crimes because everyone else is? Or that all Government contractors are crooked?




Neither.

I'm saying that a lot of government contractors are crooked.



Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:43:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
The real question is, how the fuck can the government award a contract to a company and not even know who they are dealing with? Who gives a shit about Blackwater....
The contracting officers most certainly knew
as sub contractors must be listed in the proposal, and they had business that needed Blackwater's special attention. Its not illegal to call a company and ask "Do you partner with any small disadvantaged businesses on a regular basis?"

Kharn


It should be illegal...the way the Mentor agreements are written...it allows a large company to provide the goods, services, etc...with a percentage of the business skimmed for the minority partner.....happens ALL THE TIME.

Our gov is so fucked up I could care less about Blackwater ...they actually DO SOMETHING...unlike many of the others milking the .gov / taxpayer tit for $$$$

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:51:16 AM EDT
Good for Blackwater! Someone finally fucks the government instead of the government fucking us!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:04:17 AM EDT
Corporations do that all the time. Whats the big deal?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:08:31 AM EDT
Gee, the left has gone off the deep end so far that now a company makes headlines if they do something legal. When will the New York Times break the earth shattering report on the super secret company that has Senator Levin's port-a-potty contract?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:14:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 5:15:33 AM EDT by Kharn]
Originally Posted By Chisum:
Gee, the left has gone off the deep end so far that now a company makes headlines if they do something legal. When will the New York Times break the earth shattering report on the super secret company that has Senator Levin's port-a-potty contract?
Its not a portapotty, its a Restroom Facility, Portable, Single Axle, Double Sex (glory hole is optional accessory for Bawney Fwank's events). F'er even has air conditioning, heat and hot water, but they're still flushable RV toilets so the TP is complete crap.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:17:44 AM EDT
With all the years that Carl Levin has lived in Michigan and has watched the growth (financially and politically) of the the Prince and De Vos families, I'll bet the chance to nail Prince on this is something he's waited for for years. I can't stand that condescending prick, but then I know little about bidding on government contracts.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:55:53 AM EDT
So.....
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:04:12 AM EDT
I'm tired of hearing about Blackwater. For some reason, the media can print an article like this and make it sound like Blackwater is the devil without ever providing a reason why. They've been the left's boogey man for 7 years now.

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:15:50 AM EDT
How about getting off of their back...
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:52:37 AM EDT
Business as usual!


Nothing to see here, move on!


Actually this is nothing more than a politically motivated witch hunt. Blackwater, Xe, whatever they are calling themselves this week, isn't politically aligned with the democrats and that's why shitbag levin is going after them.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:00:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 7:00:53 AM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]
so very unethical business practices are a-ok, as long as it's doing something you approve?

Many of you guys have just as bad of double standards as the Liberals.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:09:09 AM EDT
An even BIGGER scandal...... EPIC..... ready?

Raley's and BelAir grocery stores.....pssst ..... SAME COMPANY!!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 11:24:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
so very unethical business practices are a-ok, as long as it's doing something you approve?

Many of you guys have just as bad of double standards as the Liberals.


Where is there any indication that Blackwater did anything unethical?
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 11:36:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
so very unethical business practices are a-ok, as long as it's doing something you approve?

Many of you guys have just as bad of double standards as the Liberals.


so you'd rather somebody like PGS or Wackenhut stumble face first on a DoD contract like the ones BW got and get people killed like its going out of style?
some companies that are technically qualified to get such contracts would waste the time and money of everyone involved, plus possibly get people killed..

The people looking to fill contracts usually know better, and assist in getting the better company the contract. Sometimes you have to have your buddy "John" make a "shell" company on the side with no official ties to get the contract. More often than not, it's for the best.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:34:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 4:37:19 AM EDT by ODA_564]

Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
so very unethical business practices are a-ok, as long as it's doing something you approve?

Many of you guys have just as bad of double standards as the Liberals.


so you'd rather somebody like PGS or Wackenhut stumble face first on a DoD contract like the ones BW got and get people killed like its going out of style?
some companies that are technically qualified to get such contracts would waste the time and money of everyone involved, plus possibly get people killed..

The people looking to fill contracts usually know better, and assist in getting the better company the contract. Sometimes you have to have your buddy "John" make a "shell" company on the side with no official ties to get the contract. More often than not, it's for the best.

There were excellent companies providing WPPS services and military training services, etc. before Blackwater was a gleam in Erik Prince's eye.

I wonder why they aren't all up in the headlines?

The part in red is illegal and unethical (and probably immoral and fattening).

And you assume that Blackwater hasn't "waste{d} the time and money of everyone involved, plus possibly get people killed.."

That assumption would be incorrect.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:41:30 AM EDT
Dear Middle East,

We will eat your fucking babies and sodomiZe your women with our beards.

Sincerely,

Eric Prince, et al
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:10:05 AM EDT
Greystone was pretty well publicized as being a sub of Blackwater, this writer is a douche. Plus if you cant figure out who is associated with who in that business you must be retarded.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:33:47 AM EDT
Along the lines of banned members creating shell accounts to continue trolling?

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