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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:01:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 5:44:03 AM EDT by JINXR]
DangerJ asked me to post this and go into more detail. This was the longest 9 hours of my life.

July 2007, my girlfriend and I were flying from Gatwick Airport in London, UK to Orlando, FL. We were in the rear section of a Virgin Atlantic 747. About 30 minutes after we got over the Atlantic, I noticed a guy of middle eastern descent in the middle section start fidgeting a lot. He was dressed in what reminded me of something Indiana Jones would wear. All khakis with an old khaki colored military looking button up short sleeved shirt with his sleeves rolled up. He also had those crazy looking eyes that never blinked. I was to his left across the isle and 1 row ahead of him.

He soon got up and went to the bathroom. I wasn't thinking much of him at this point. He came back, whispered in the ear of the guy next to him (also middle eastern descent, but dressed more casually). Then he started roaming the cabin. He spent a lot of time at the bathrooms behind us. There were 4 lavatories in the rear of the plane in the center section, and there was a wall in front of them, so he was hidden by most people in the cabin.

I started really paying attention to him at this point because he was going into each of the bathrooms and staying in there for 5-10 minutes each. He would come out and really study the layout of the lavs. Then he went back the the rear most window (there either wasn't a seat there or the seats were empty) and kept looking out. He then came back up to his partner and sat down and they started scribbling notes and talking quietly.

At this point, I had my girlfriend switch me seats (she was on the isle) because I wanted to a better position to get up if I had to. I didn't tell her about anything that was going on. No reason to panic her, so I left her sleeping.

He got up again and started roaming the isles. He was just walking very slowly in circles around the rear part of the cabin. He kept spending a lot of time in the rear near the lavs and those rear windows. He then started watching the stewardesses closely. When he walked up to the front part of our section where the emergency doors were, he studied them intently. He was trying to be nonchalant about it, but he was trying to figure out how they worked. He would spend a lot of time in that area just standing around, studying the doors, and looking at the overall layout. Once he peaked into the curtains of where the stewards stored coffee, drinks, food, etc. He walked around our section again and went to the other side of it. Next thing I know, he came out my side. He walked right through it and not a single stewardess noticed him.

It really sucks knowing you're the only one seeing this and all you have is a metal pen.

That's when he went up a few rows into the middle section and started talking to two other middle eastern guys. They were wearing suits. They seemed to be annoyed with him or something. They never even turned their heads to look at him. He spoke with them for a few moments before going back to the emergency door. He was studying it again, then carefully looked around for anyone watching him, and then started yanking on the emergency door handle. He was right up against it with his body, trying to hide what he was doing. It didn't appear that he was trying to really open the door (I knew for a fact that he wouldn't be able to open it while we were in the air), but he seemed to be trying to figure out if it was possible or if the lever could be pulled up.

That was my breaking point. He walked back to the bathrooms and I went and cornered a stewardess. Told her I needed to talk to her and she took me into their quarters. I told her what I had seen, gave her all 4 seat/row numbers, and a description of all 4 of them. She was professional, but I could tell she was scared. She told me she would take care of it.

Within a couple of minutes, the captain came over the intercom and told everyone to remain in their seats due to "possible turbulence." The guy finally made his way back to his seat and buckled up.

It was then I noticed another man paying attention to them as well. He even moved to be in a better position, just as I did.

It made me feel better knowing he was there, but I was far from comfortable. The captain had everyone stay in their seats the remaining 8 or so hours. I was never so happy to be on the ground after that and my wife (then g/f) almost pissed herself after I told her everything that happened.

Less than a month later, there was a report in the news of lots of "dry-run" activity. After seeing that, I called my local FBI office and gave them my story. Never heard back from them though.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:11:32 AM EDT
Holy shit.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:14:55 AM EDT
dayum! Good job though!
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:15:04 AM EDT
Holy shit is right.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:16:43 AM EDT

I called my local FBI office and gave them my story. Never heard back from them though.


Isolated incident. Nothing to report here. Move along...........per Obama's instructions.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:19:15 AM EDT
I appreciate what you did. You handled it correctly.

I would also suggest that you might want to withhold some details on public web sites... just sayin' .....
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:20:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JA_Magnum:
Holy shit.


Good that you acted. Most people are not paying attention. Good job.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:22:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By atxjax:

I called my local FBI office and gave them my story. Never heard back from them though.


Isolated incident. Nothing to report here. Move along...........per Obama's instructions.


I doubt Obama had much pull with the FBI in the summer of 2007.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:23:02 AM EDT
And this is one of the reasons I no longer fly. Don't want to go anywhere I can't drive to or take a boat.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:23:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JINXR:
It really sucks knowing you're the only one seeing this and all you have is a metal pen.


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:24:08 AM EDT
Everything up to the emergency door handle is explainable. Once the guy went for the door, it's game on!

Interesting story. Thanks for posting!
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:24:25 AM EDT
in on this.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:27:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:27:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Originally Posted By atxjax:

I called my local FBI office and gave them my story. Never heard back from them though.


Isolated incident. Nothing to report here. Move along...........per Obama's instructions.


I doubt Obama had much pull with the FBI in the summer of 2007.


Failed to notice that part. sorry guys.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:27:55 AM EDT
Wow.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:30:43 AM EDT
Good move on your part!
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:31:34 AM EDT
Were the other dry runs in the news on Virgin Atlantic also?
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:37:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Pics of GF?


LOL


But seriously, just reading what you observed makes me get little butterflies in my stomach. I too, always have a metal pen on me when I fly, it's not really much, but better than nothing at all.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:37:59 AM EDT
wow

I would have been seriously freaked
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:42:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 9:42:47 AM EDT by WileyG27]

Originally Posted By atxjax:

I called my local FBI office and gave them my story. Never heard back from them though.


Isolated incident. Nothing to report here. Move along...........per Obama's instructions.

He said it happened in '07, before the Failure-in-Chief usurped the office.


OP, good on you for observing and making the crew aware with full details. We all need to be more like that.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:46:16 AM EDT
geebus.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:48:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dbuster:
I appreciate what you did. You handled it correctly.

I would also suggest that you might want to withhold some details on public web sites... just sayin' .....


Which details do you feel I should leave out? You can PM me if you want.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:50:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Miahdude:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Pics of GF?


LOL


But seriously, just reading what you observed makes me get little butterflies in my stomach. I too, always have a metal pen on me when I fly, it's not really much, but better than nothing at all.

Genuine curiosity, not trying to be a dick - what would you do with it?

At first blush, I'd rather go fists, because blunt trauma give a possibility of knockout, and my goal would be to put somebody on the floor and stomp.

Pen-sized puncture wounds - maybe a quarter inch in diameter and 3-4" deep - don't seem like they'd end the threat quickly or reliably short of a fairly perfect shot to a soft spot in the head. While a throat shot is gruesome, it may not stop a guy who was planning on dying anyway. A small knick to the carotid isn't going to be a 15-second exsanguination - anecdotally, I've heard of broadheads failing to slice arterial tissue when they weren't kept sharp.

So I'm not an expert, but if we have one in the house, I'm curious whether someone who's comfortable punching and grappling would be better off without the pen. I have a sense that sturdy blows have a higher margin of error for inflicting incapacitating damage than a short, relatively brittle tool with only one very small surface for inflicting damage.

(Not to pull this off topic or anything, but we do love our "Choose Your Own Adventure" threads.)
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:53:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JINXR:
Originally Posted By dbuster:
I appreciate what you did. You handled it correctly.

I would also suggest that you might want to withhold some details on public web sites... just sayin' .....


Which details do you feel I should leave out? You can PM me if you want.

The whole "middle eastern" thing. Everyone (at the TSA) knows that 90-year-old Eskimo women are just as great a threat to western air travel as arab military-aged males.

Racist.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:53:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:

Originally Posted By Miahdude:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Pics of GF?


LOL


But seriously, just reading what you observed makes me get little butterflies in my stomach. I too, always have a metal pen on me when I fly, it's not really much, but better than nothing at all.

Genuine curiosity, not trying to be a dick - what would you do with it?

At first blush, I'd rather go fists, because blunt trauma give a possibility of knockout, and my goal would be to put somebody on the floor and stomp.

Pen-sized puncture wounds - maybe a quarter inch in diameter and 3-4" deep - don't seem like they'd end the threat quickly or reliably short of a fairly perfect shot to a soft spot in the head. While a throat shot is gruesome, it may not stop a guy who was planning on dying anyway. A small knick to the carotid isn't going to be a 15-second exsanguination - anecdotally, I've heard of broadheads failing to slice arterial tissue when they weren't kept sharp.

So I'm not an expert, but if we have one in the house, I'm curious whether someone who's comfortable punching and grappling would be better off without the pen. I have a sense that sturdy blows have a higher margin of error for inflicting incapacitating damage than a short, relatively brittle tool with only one very small surface for inflicting damage.

(Not to pull this off topic or anything, but we do love our "Choose Your Own Adventure" threads.)


I'm far from an expert, but I planned on going for the neck, eyes/face, or balls with it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:00:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:03:59 AM EDT
Good work JINXR.

Be friendly and respectfull at all times ... but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:05:05 AM EDT
I have to fly next week and am not real happy about it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:09:31 AM EDT
I was thinking that you were blowing things out of proportion 'til you mentioned the emergency door thing.

If I would have seen someone fucking with the door during the flight, I would have left fucking hair on the walls.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:13:51 AM EDT
Wow


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:14:03 AM EDT
Let's roll.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:15:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Let's roll.




I'm with you on that one.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:18:07 AM EDT
cool story bro
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:18:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 10:19:34 AM EDT by Miahdude]
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:

Originally Posted By Miahdude:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Pics of GF?


LOL


But seriously, just reading what you observed makes me get little butterflies in my stomach. I too, always have a metal pen on me when I fly, it's not really much, but better than nothing at all.

Genuine curiosity, not trying to be a dick - what would you do with it?

At first blush, I'd rather go fists, because blunt trauma give a possibility of knockout, and my goal would be to put somebody on the floor and stomp.

Pen-sized puncture wounds - maybe a quarter inch in diameter and 3-4" deep - don't seem like they'd end the threat quickly or reliably short of a fairly perfect shot to a soft spot in the head. While a throat shot is gruesome, it may not stop a guy who was planning on dying anyway. A small knick to the carotid isn't going to be a 15-second exsanguination - anecdotally, I've heard of broadheads failing to slice arterial tissue when they weren't kept sharp.

So I'm not an expert, but if we have one in the house, I'm curious whether someone who's comfortable punching and grappling would be better off without the pen. I have a sense that sturdy blows have a higher margin of error for inflicting incapacitating damage than a short, relatively brittle tool with only one very small surface for inflicting damage.

(Not to pull this off topic or anything, but we do love our "Choose Your Own Adventure" threads.)



I mostly use it to write with, the pen is mightier than the sword.

But really, if it came down to it in a possible horrible situation, as you said, it's not likely to immediately incapacitate someone. I would probably try to get the eye, neck, or other soft spot, hopefully it would be enough to slow them down/distract them so the person could be taken to the ground and proceed with fists, feet, spare luggage, and hopefully it's not just me trying to take him/them down.

I have no delusions that I'm an action hero and that this even would work, but if a situation like a attempted 9/11 hijacking ever occurred while I was onboard, I would try to do whatever I could to make sure I live to see another day.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:21:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:
I was thinking that you were blowing things out of proportion 'til you mentioned the emergency door thing.

If I would have seen someone fucking with the door during the flight, I would have left fucking hair on the walls.


+1. While I know they cannot be removed while the plane is pressurized, I would not be able to sit and watch someone jerking on the handle.




Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:23:48 AM EDT
Good work JINXR,

I'd like to have you or others like you on-hand if I found myself and family in a similar situation.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:28:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:
I was thinking that you were blowing things out of proportion 'til you mentioned the emergency door thing.

If I would have seen someone fucking with the door during the flight, I would have left fucking hair on the walls.


+1. While I know they cannot be removed while the plane is pressurized, I would not be able to sit and watch someone jerking on the handle.






Same here. Sounds like the OP stayed FAR calmer than I would have.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:29:57 AM EDT
metal bodied pens make pretty good weapons, and there's nothing saying you can't punch with one in your hand. Another that is always handy and tough for anyone to complain about is a roll of nickels or quarters (depending on your hands). If you throw a decent punch the added weight and solidity of your fist with those inside makes a significant difference.

Short of getting it through a temple or getting lucky on the neck a pen isn't going to have major stopping power, what it does do is inflict a good bit of pain. Sure, it might not stop them entirely, but is it gonna slow them up to have your pen stabbed into their thigh? I'd rather continue you mid aisle wrestling match with him handicapped than not.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:32:28 AM EDT
I wish we had more people like you in this country. You are not alone, however, it angers me to know that you were the only person who did anything about it. People in this country need to wake up from their exciting little lives, pull the ipods out of their ears and open their eyes.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:36:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JINXR:
I'm far from an expert, but I planned on going for the neck, eyes/face, or balls with it.



Glad everything turned out ok

Seems dry runs are occurring regularly, for every one that gets reported in the Media there's probably a dozen or so that don't

I'm not an expert martial artist but I trained for a short time with John Kary ( American Combatives )

Simple gross motor moves like a chin jab or a strike to the groin can be extremely devastating, using an open palm or a knifehand strike is less likely to result in a fracture of your hand and grappling isn't an option within the confines of an aircraft

Techniques taught by Kary have been endorsed by Kelly McCann and Kary has taught some in the Airline Industry these techniques

Link Here
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:40:15 AM EDT
While working an LE assignment at a large TX airport three days after 9-11, - was told by an FBI ASAIC that other conspirators had disembarked when the planes were grounded, he claimed verified from evidence found after raids on hotel rooms near the airport. No mention at the 9-11 commission, never heard it mentioned again....I don't have much faith in what the FBI is doing.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:41:19 AM EDT
I'd be on high alert if I saw any of that, but the moment the fucker TOUCHED the emergency exit handle, it'd be time to rumble.
He would not complete the flight in a conscious condition. One major league ass beating, coming up!



Shoulda chucked the fucker out the back door.


CJ
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:42:01 AM EDT
I apologize ahead of time to anyone who is, or even just *looks* to be of middle eastern decent. I am sorry if this sounds racist or profiling in nature. But I watch you guys like hawks, and don't trust a single mother-fucking one of you until I have gotten to know you and feel you can be trusted.

Sorry but that's the reality we live in. Stereotypes are based on reality. Sue me.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:44:34 AM EDT
Sounds like the air marshal wasn't very observant.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:47:56 AM EDT
Awesome, thanks!
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:51:13 AM EDT
I got chills reading it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:53:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:

Originally Posted By Miahdude:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Pics of GF?


LOL


But seriously, just reading what you observed makes me get little butterflies in my stomach. I too, always have a metal pen on me when I fly, it's not really much, but better than nothing at all.

Genuine curiosity, not trying to be a dick - what would you do with it?

At first blush, I'd rather go fists, because blunt trauma give a possibility of knockout, and my goal would be to put somebody on the floor and stomp.

Pen-sized puncture wounds - maybe a quarter inch in diameter and 3-4" deep - don't seem like they'd end the threat quickly or reliably short of a fairly perfect shot to a soft spot in the head. While a throat shot is gruesome, it may not stop a guy who was planning on dying anyway. A small knick to the carotid isn't going to be a 15-second exsanguination - anecdotally, I've heard of broadheads failing to slice arterial tissue when they weren't kept sharp.

So I'm not an expert, but if we have one in the house, I'm curious whether someone who's comfortable punching and grappling would be better off without the pen. I have a sense that sturdy blows have a higher margin of error for inflicting incapacitating damage than a short, relatively brittle tool with only one very small surface for inflicting damage.

(Not to pull this off topic or anything, but we do love our "Choose Your Own Adventure" threads.)



A pen jammed in an eye is a fight ender. Then punching it home is a probable kill shot. The bone at the back of the socket isn't thick. It's even got a hole right in the center to weaken it.


Never fought with a pen or a knife, but I wouldn't want a person trying to do me in with one.


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:54:51 AM EDT
Why not just get up and sort of mimic his behavior. Walk around right near him but act like you don't really notice what he's doing.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:55:11 AM EDT
oh, I really hate this.

Got an 8 hour cattle class ride to Europe coming up soon.

Now I'm not going to get ANY sleep at all. Someone's going to have to pick out the bad guys from the sheeple..........
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:59:50 AM EDT
Seemed to take you forever to do anything though.

Oh, and it's aisles......not isles.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 11:00:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 11:03:53 AM EDT by SirHacksalot]
Jinxr,

You mentioned the 'metal pen'...I always have two of them with me. I know it's not much, but I figure if I have one in each hand, I can do some damage using it as an improvised weapon if I have to.

I fly a lot and on a lot of routes that would be popular for those type of people to try this...I also live fairly close to the southern border, so I know that's a good point of entry for them.

I am not a tier 1, high speed, low drag, operator type...I'm a dude that shoots guns, fishes, etc., hell most of you guys would call me a Fudd (I do like EBR's though).

My question is this...if you're on the plane, the TSHF there...what do you do? What sort of tactics do you use? Do you let them come to you...do you attack and press forward? What other improvised weapons can you think of really quickly to make use of? I know that if there's no bomb, there'll be box cutters/knives...so I KNOW I'll get cut...how do you go about mitigating the damage?

I guess what I'd figure is I'd ambush the guy and stab the shit out of him with the pens and get him to the ground and then just stomp him until he quits moving...but I'd need help, need to make sure an AIr Marshall doesn't shoot ME...and keep an eye out for other BGs.

Where the hell would you even start?

I hate to sound like a nervous Nellie...but being prepared is better than not.

What's the hive's take on it?

I also want to add...I'm not trying to sound like a badass...if it came out that way, it wasn't intended.


Hax
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