Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 5
Posted: 9/3/2010 7:20:10 AM EDT
Interested if others feel this is as f*ucked up as it reads.
Did this guy get set up and knocked down by the ATF to accomplish their agenda, or is it stupid games = stupid prizes?
How is it the illegal who committed a crime by purchasing the handgun allowed to keep it AND remain in the country?
FFL guys chime in at will.



In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he “had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.
The firearm transaction at issue occurred on January 16, 2010, at a gunshow at the North Austin Events Center, at 10601 N. Lamar Blvd., in Austin, Texas. Undercover ATF agents followed Mr. Huerta, his son, and another Hispanic male, Hipolito Aviles, around the “Texas Gunshow” that day, and claimed to observe Huerta’s transaction. Austin P.D. used Copeland’s case as the reason to close down the gunshow, leading to a protest by Austin residents in front of APD headquarters on January 25.
Mr. Copeland is a 56 year old Cedar Creek resident and Vietnam veteran who liked to buy, sell, and trade firearms as a hobby. On January 16, however, he had the misfortune to sell a handgun to Leonel Huerta Sr., who spoke both English and Spanish. Huerta Sr. negotiated his purchase from Copeland in English, showing Copeland his Texas Driver’s License. At Copeland’s trial Huerta admitted on the witness stand, that he is in the country illegally, (Huerta Sr. had previously admitted this fact to Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agent Leo Buentello). ATF Agent Shawn Kang claimed he saw Huerta later hand off the gun to Aviles. Despite these admissions, Huerta Sr. was never arrested, charged, or deported. Instead, his presence at the gunshow was used to entrap an American citizen into an unwitting violation of a federal gun control law. Huerta Sr., who is a resident of the City of Austin, appeared as a witness at the trial, admitted he was in the country illegally before federal prosecutors and a federal judge, yet he was allowed to leave the courtroom under his own power. To date Huerta Sr. has not been prosecuted for his purchase, possession, or disposition of the handgun he bought from Copeland, while Copeland is now a convicted felon.
“Instead of busting the illegal alien for buying, they bust the citizen for selling,” commented Paul Velte, attorney and founder of Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights, a gun-owners rights advocacy group from Austin. Velte asked, “who was in a better position to know the buyer’s immigration status, the buyer or the seller?” He also said, “What happened to Paul Copeland should enrage all Americans. The Federal Government is using illegal aliens to entrap citizens lawfully exercising their right to sell firearms. The illegal alien walks free, but the citizen gets convicted. The same government charged with controlling immigration is the one using illegal immigrants to attack its own citizens. Does this make any sense? It makes no sense unless the purpose is to discourage attendance at gunshows and frighten citizens from selling their firearms to other citizens.”
Velte pointed out that “There is no way for a citizen to know who is here legally or not. In fact, under Austin’s ‘sanctuary city’ policy, not even the police officer at the door of the gunshow was allowed to ask a person’s immigration status, yet the average Texan inside the show is expected to assume that a person standing before them with a Texas driver’s license is in the country illegally just because they look Mexican and speak Spanish.”
Velte noted that the federal government’s lawsuit against Arizona was based on that very type of conduct: Concluding someone could be here illegally based on their looks or their language. Velte said gun owners in his group are outraged, and they want to know:
• Why is the illegal alien who purchased the gun, Leonel Huerta Sr., still living in Austin?
• Why does he still have a Texas Driver’s license?
• Why is ATF using illegal aliens to set up and convict American citizens?
• What has he been promised for his cooperation?
• Why has he not been prosecuted? He committed three distinct crimes: he purchased a firearm knowing he was an illegal alien, he possessed the firearm, and he transferred the handgun to another illegal alien (Hippolito Aviles, who was convicted and given time served on June 30, 2010).
• Why has Huerta Sr. not been deported?
Contact: Paul Velte, 512-296-5563
Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights
website: http://www.io.com/~velte/pt.htm
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:23:34 AM EDT
That is just all kinds of wtf.....
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:24:20 AM EDT
I'm speechless. Outraged isn't a strong enough word.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:25:35 AM EDT
This is a whole dump truck full of BULLSHIT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:25:38 AM EDT
Don't let hispanics into the fucking gun show then, WTF???
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:26:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:28:56 AM EDT by jasonfin1128]
So the govt is saying racial profiling is okay in this case? But they accuse us of being racists?

ETA: sucks for the guy.


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:26:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:34:13 AM EDT by _DR]
This can be challenged. A driver's license is not even required to be shown to sell a firearm to an individual in Texas.
The seller broke no laws, he is not required to do a background check if he is not a dealer. As long as the seller has no knowledge of any reason why the buyer would not legally be able to purchase said firearm, he can sell legally in Texas.

It is the buyer who is breaking the law. I see this hitting the courts in a big way, and ATF eating crow.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:26:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:28:46 AM EDT by Lowjack545]
The Austin Police are scum of the highest order and have been since they brought in a California police chief IIRC back in the early 90's. sorry for any of you good cops trapped there.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:26:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:34:08 AM EDT by gunham]
But Obama says that the States are NOT to do the Job of the Feds.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/161/279/Feds_Convict_Texan_for_Selling_a_Gun_to_Illegal_Alien_With_Texas_Driver_s_License.html



Impeach Obama for the Good of the Country.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:27:34 AM EDT
IBD_A
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:27:53 AM EDT
WTF. Hang 'em high and hang 'em at fawn. Oh wait. They will probably shuttle his ass back to mexico in a bus to pick up the rest of his family. I hate what is happening to this country.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:29:10 AM EDT
gET READY FOR dEMOCRAT INSPIRED DOUCHBAGGERY foisted upon Leos and look for leos to comply rater than be a target like Sheriff Joe
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:29:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:30:04 AM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
Selling a gun to anyone "foreign-looking" is a felony now. Got it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:30:58 AM EDT
Sooo, the feds hate AZ's new law because it would profile hispanic Americans, but they are prosecuting this citizen because they are saying he should have racially profiled them?
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:31:11 AM EDT
btw the current police chief is from CHIPS as well




Art Acevedo serves as the eighth Police Chief in the 87-year history of the Austin Police Department and is the first Hispanic to lead the City’s police force. With more than two decades of law enforcement experience, he oversees a department that employs approximately 2,200 sworn officers and civilian personnel. With the consolidation of the Austin Police Department and the Austin Public Safety and Emergency Management Department in January 2009, Acevedo is now responsible for all municipal law enforcement in the City of Austin, including Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, parks, and municipal courts.

Chief Acevedo began his professional career in law enforcement with the California Highway Patrol in 1986, bringing a well-established commitment to community outreach and coalition building to Austin. He strives to establish strong community relationships throughout the city with the goal of strengthening the relationship between the people of Austin and their Police Department. Chief Acevedo leads by example with a strong sense of community involvement through his own personal time and resources.

Chief Acevedo has been a leader with the National Latino Peace Officers Association (NLPOA) for over 20 years. In his NLPOA capacity, he has been a champion for diversity by traveling throughout the United States to assist qualified minorities in law enforcement secure entry-level and promotional opportunities. In addition, he has raised monies to provide scholarships to young people. As NLPOA California State Chapter President, he secured $200,000 in grant funding from State Farm Insurance Company to provide car-seats to families in need. This funding has also been used to assist local NLPOA Chapters.

Born in Havana, Cuba, Acevedo migrated to the United States with his family in 1968 in search of freedom and the opportunities to be found in America. He grew up in California, and earned his Bachelor of Science degree, with departmental honors, in Public Administration from the University of La Verne. He is married to Tanya and is the father of three children, Melissa, Matthew and Jake.

Appointed Austin Police Chief in July 2007, Chief Acevedo believes in the spirit of our community and the commitment to excellence demonstrated by the men and women he leads.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:32:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 8:04:05 AM EDT by orangelo]
This is total fucking BS.

If they can get a real driver's license then they can get a CHL too if their alias and finger prints aren't in the FBI criminal database. I know lots of ppl that ask to see a CHL as proof that the buyer isn't a prohibited person.
Hell, FFLs are allowed to use a CHL as proof of passing the NICS check too.

This ruling is going to get alot of innocent people fucked who actually did due diligence on the buyer by asking for DPS issued identification.

If this horseshit stands, the only way to CYA is to refuse to do business with anyone who looks even slightly mexican regardless of whether they can produce a driver's license, birth certificate, green card, voter registration card, CHL, US passport, or whatever.

And what does an illegal alien from Serbia, Russia, or Canada look like anyway? Probably like the John/Jane Doe majority of the US. This is indeed sounding like an ATF scheme to end all FTF private transactions.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lowjack545:
btw the current police chief is from CHIPS as well

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/police/images/chiefacevedo.jpg


Art Acevedo serves as the eighth Police Chief in the 87-year history of the Austin Police Department and is the first Hispanic to lead the City’s police force. With more than two decades of law enforcement experience, he oversees a department that employs approximately 2,200 sworn officers and civilian personnel. With the consolidation of the Austin Police Department and the Austin Public Safety and Emergency Management Department in January 2009, Acevedo is now responsible for all municipal law enforcement in the City of Austin, including Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, parks, and municipal courts.

Chief Acevedo began his professional career in law enforcement with the California Highway Patrol in 1986, bringing a well-established commitment to community outreach and coalition building to Austin. He strives to establish strong community relationships throughout the city with the goal of strengthening the relationship between the people of Austin and their Police Department. Chief Acevedo leads by example with a strong sense of community involvement through his own personal time and resources.

Chief Acevedo has been a leader with the National Latino Peace Officers Association (NLPOA) for over 20 years. In his NLPOA capacity, he has been a champion for diversity by traveling throughout the United States to assist qualified minorities in law enforcement secure entry-level and promotional opportunities. In addition, he has raised monies to provide scholarships to young people. As NLPOA California State Chapter President, he secured $200,000 in grant funding from State Farm Insurance Company to provide car-seats to families in need. This funding has also been used to assist local NLPOA Chapters.

Born in Havana, Cuba, Acevedo migrated to the United States with his family in 1968 in search of freedom and the opportunities to be found in America. He grew up in California, and earned his Bachelor of Science degree, with departmental honors, in Public Administration from the University of La Verne. He is married to Tanya and is the father of three children, Melissa, Matthew and Jake.

Appointed Austin Police Chief in July 2007, Chief Acevedo believes in the spirit of our community and the commitment to excellence demonstrated by the men and women he leads.

I wouldn't sell a gun to that guy, he looks like an illegal.


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NavyDoc1:
Sooo, the feds hate AZ's new law because it would profile hispanic Americans, but they are prosecuting this citizen because they are saying he should have racially profiled them?


I know this is backwards fucked up thinking right here. I'm just shocked at how high some in government can be so damn retarded.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:45 AM EDT
Austin
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:54 AM EDT
If the govt wants to turn an innocent person into a felon then those responsible should not be surprised by the forthcoming reckoning when said person decides to go ahead and act like a felon. Ruin an innocent citizens life and you should expect to pay a price. Just sayin...........
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Lowjack545:
btw the current police chief is from CHIPS as well

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/police/images/chiefacevedo.jpg


Art Acevedo serves as the eighth Police Chief in the 87-year history of the Austin Police Department and is the first Hispanic to lead the City’s police force. With more than two decades of law enforcement experience, he oversees a department that employs approximately 2,200 sworn officers and civilian personnel. With the consolidation of the Austin Police Department and the Austin Public Safety and Emergency Management Department in January 2009, Acevedo is now responsible for all municipal law enforcement in the City of Austin, including Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, parks, and municipal courts.

Chief Acevedo began his professional career in law enforcement with the California Highway Patrol in 1986, bringing a well-established commitment to community outreach and coalition building to Austin. He strives to establish strong community relationships throughout the city with the goal of strengthening the relationship between the people of Austin and their Police Department. Chief Acevedo leads by example with a strong sense of community involvement through his own personal time and resources.

Chief Acevedo has been a leader with the National Latino Peace Officers Association (NLPOA) for over 20 years. In his NLPOA capacity, he has been a champion for diversity by traveling throughout the United States to assist qualified minorities in law enforcement secure entry-level and promotional opportunities. In addition, he has raised monies to provide scholarships to young people. As NLPOA California State Chapter President, he secured $200,000 in grant funding from State Farm Insurance Company to provide car-seats to families in need. This funding has also been used to assist local NLPOA Chapters.

Born in Havana, Cuba, Acevedo migrated to the United States with his family in 1968 in search of freedom and the opportunities to be found in America. He grew up in California, and earned his Bachelor of Science degree, with departmental honors, in Public Administration from the University of La Verne. He is married to Tanya and is the father of three children, Melissa, Matthew and Jake.

Appointed Austin Police Chief in July 2007, Chief Acevedo believes in the spirit of our community and the commitment to excellence demonstrated by the men and women he leads.

I wouldn't sell a gun to that guy, he looks like an illegal.




Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:34:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zergling:
That is just all kinds of wtf.....


Absolutely. A Setup. Adgenda -libtard flavor of the month.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:35:37 AM EDT
So now the Feds are saying we ARE supposed to assume people are illegal? Self-serving assholes.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:36:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Selling a gun to anyone "foreign-looking" is a felony now. Got it.


When I raced motorbikes folks said I looked "like a European Rider" I'm thinkin Estonian.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:36:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:36:41 AM EDT
Straw number 11,942 on the back of the camel.

ATF probably plans this to be the basis for a full frontal attack on FTF sales.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:37:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 8:15:31 AM EDT by Dave_A]

In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he "had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing.


Yet if the police do it, it's racial profiling...

Bullshit verdict (jury probably had similar views 'looks like a Mexican, must be a Mexican, and you should treat him as one'), but you get those from juries every so often...

Don't know if he can win a 'the jury expects me to racially profile the guy I'm selling guns to' appeal, but that's pretty much all he's got...

ETA: Further info seems to indicate the guy is not 'just some citizen who sold a gun to an illegal with a real (or fake but convincing) DL', but rather someone who's been operating as an unlicensed dealer promoting 'paperwork-free' gun sales at gun-shows (essentially, being the guy the antis claim all gun shows are full of)...

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:37:49 AM EDT
For the folks saying "Austin," remember that this was a federal charge, with a federal jury (and federal juries seem to swoon over federal agents and believe whatever they are told, by and large.)
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:37:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:38:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:39:33 AM EDT by wgjhsafT]
Oh the hypocrisy.

Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
Straw number 11,942 on the back of the camel.

ATF probably plans this to be the basis for a full frontal attack on FTF sales.

What I thought as well...just another "example" they can use trying to close the "gun show loophole."

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:38:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gunham:
But Obama says that the States are NOT to do the Job of the Feds.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/161/279/Feds_Convict_Texan_for_Selling_a_Gun_to_Illegal_Alien_With_Texas_Driver_s_License.html



Impeach Obama for the Good of the Country.

This WAS the Feds...
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:38:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tommyrich:
If the govt wants to turn an innocent person into a felon then those responsible should not be surprised by the forthcoming reckoning when said person decides to go ahead and act like a felon. Ruin an innocent citizens life and you should expect to pay a price. Just sayin...........


This is the correct interpretation.

"Atlas Shrugged" happening before our very eyes.


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:38:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Lowjack545:
The Austin Police are scum of the highest order and have been since they brought in a California police chief IIRC back in the early 90's. sorry for any of you good cops trapped there.


The police chief in Austin is a cheese dick and was hired about 2-3 years ago.


i understand that. I am reffering to a different police cheif hired in the 90's who was also from CA.. IIRC.. I am from Austin originally.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:40:49 AM EDT
If you find yourself in court facing criminal charges you will quickly find out that the system is not about right and wrong, it is about winning and losing.

You will find attys on BOTH sides that will argue actions to be reasonable and justifed at one trial, only to argue the exact opposite at the next one. Most will do whatever it takes to win.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:42:08 AM EDT
Travesty.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:42:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lowjack545:
btw the current police chief is from CHIPS as well

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/police/images/chiefacevedo.jpg


Art Acevedo serves as the eighth Police Chief in the 87-year history of the Austin Police Department and is the first Hispanic to lead the City’s police force. With more than two decades of law enforcement experience, he oversees a department that employs approximately 2,200 sworn officers and civilian personnel. With the consolidation of the Austin Police Department and the Austin Public Safety and Emergency Management Department in January 2009, Acevedo is now responsible for all municipal law enforcement in the City of Austin, including Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, parks, and municipal courts.

Chief Acevedo began his professional career in law enforcement with the California Highway Patrol in 1986, bringing a well-established commitment to community outreach and coalition building to Austin. He strives to establish strong community relationships throughout the city with the goal of strengthening the relationship between the people of Austin and their Police Department. Chief Acevedo leads by example with a strong sense of community involvement through his own personal time and resources.

Chief Acevedo has been a leader with the National Latino Peace Officers Association (NLPOA) for over 20 years. In his NLPOA capacity, he has been a champion for diversity by traveling throughout the United States to assist qualified minorities in law enforcement secure entry-level and promotional opportunities. In addition, he has raised monies to provide scholarships to young people. As NLPOA California State Chapter President, he secured $200,000 in grant funding from State Farm Insurance Company to provide car-seats to families in need. This funding has also been used to assist local NLPOA Chapters.

Born in Havana, Cuba, Acevedo migrated to the United States with his family in 1968 in search of freedom and the opportunities to be found in America. He grew up in California, and earned his Bachelor of Science degree, with departmental honors, in Public Administration from the University of La Verne. He is married to Tanya and is the father of three children, Melissa, Matthew and Jake.

Appointed Austin Police Chief in July 2007, Chief Acevedo believes in the spirit of our community and the commitment to excellence demonstrated by the men and women he leads.


Something is wrong with his eyes...

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:42:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
This can be challenged. A driver's license is not even required to be shown to sell a firearm to an individual in Texas.
The seller broke no laws, he is not required to do a background check if he is not a dealer. As long as the seller has no knowledge of any reason why the buyer would not legally be able to purchase said firearm, he can sell legally in Texas.

It is the buyer who is breaking the law. I see this hitting the courts in a big way, and ATF eating crow.


I agree with all of your points.
if a cop writing you a speeding ticket can't verify your citzenship legally, i don't see how a private citzen can be required to do so.
ATF/ austin PD was just looking to shut down a gunshow.
No doubt Eric holder will be along to protect the seller's rights...
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:43:23 AM EDT
I can't believe what our country is becoming.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:44:55 AM EDT
Wonder how much crap I will get when on my next add on Texasguntrader says "will not sell to people that appear mexican" This is all sorts of screwed up.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:45:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Indrid-Cold:
Interested if others feel this is as f*ucked up as it reads.
Did this guy get set up and knocked down by the ATF to accomplish their agenda, or is it stupid games = stupid prizes?
How is it the illegal who committed a crime by purchasing the handgun allowed to keep it AND remain in the country?
FFL guys chime in at will.



In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he "had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing.


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over

So it's racist for the state of AZ to assume someone is illegal and require LEOs to check their status because they, look mexican and speak spanish, but for Joe Citizen trying to do a legal transaction it's required to act like a racist?

Why aren't the douche bags from CA raising hell over this?

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:45:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:45:47 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
Straw number 11,942 on the back of the camel.

ATF probably plans this to be the basis for a full frontal attack on FTF sales.



If that is their aim, they are making a poor effort. They can't make up their own laws.

I don't see how this could stand up against even a half-assed legal challenge.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:45:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
This can be challenged. A driver's license is not even required to be shown to sell a firearm to an individual in Texas.
The seller broke no laws, he is not required to do a background check if he is not a dealer. As long as the seller has no knowledge of any reason why the buyer would not legally be able to purchase said firearm, he can sell legally in Texas.

It is the buyer who is breaking the law. I see this hitting the courts in a big way, and ATF eating crow.

Lord, I hope so!
This is a seriously F-ed up situation.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:47:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 7:47:25 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By HBruns:
Originally Posted By _DR:
This can be challenged. A driver's license is not even required to be shown to sell a firearm to an individual in Texas.
The seller broke no laws, he is not required to do a background check if he is not a dealer. As long as the seller has no knowledge of any reason why the buyer would not legally be able to purchase said firearm, he can sell legally in Texas.

It is the buyer who is breaking the law. I see this hitting the courts in a big way, and ATF eating crow.

Lord, I hope so!
This is a seriously F-ed up situation.



The lawyers are not going to be cheap for Copeland, but he really hasn't much choice. He can always sue for legal costs.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:47:42 AM EDT
He has to win in appeal. This is total bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:48:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:50:35 AM EDT
WTF?
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:53:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lowjack545:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Lowjack545:
The Austin Police are scum of the highest order and have been since they brought in a California police chief IIRC back in the early 90's. sorry for any of you good cops trapped there.


The police chief in Austin is a cheese dick and was hired about 2-3 years ago.


i understand that. I am reffering to a different police cheif hired in the 90's who was also from CA.. IIRC.. I am from Austin originally.


I was reffering to Stan Knee cheif from 97 to 2006 who was also from California
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:55:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tommyrich:
If the govt wants to turn an innocent person into a felon then those responsible should not be surprised by the forthcoming reckoning when said person decides to go ahead and act like a felon. Ruin an innocent citizens life and you should expect to pay a price. Just sayin...........


this
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:57:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 8:19:25 AM EDT by jrzy]
I brought up very similar point a couple of months back.
I asked if the states where a face to face firearm sale is legal if anyone thought you could be charged with selling to a felon?

The majority thought they had no responsibility to ask or find out if the person buying the gun was in fact a felon.

This case sets a very dangerous precedent.
If this guy can get convicted of selling to an illegal alien under federal law then any one who sells to a felon (unknowing that he was a felon) can also be charged & convicted.
The govt would argue that the seller could have gone to an FFL who could do the back round check and transfer the weapon then.

I have used this analogy (below) for years in trying to tell people that they could & would be charged if they sold a weapon to a convicted felon (even unknowingly)

Analogy:
Say you are in a bar and see a nice looking girl come in, the bartender proofs her.
She gets served, you have a nice conversation with her.
Things progress nicely and she says "lets go back to your place"
You say "sure, can I see your ID?" (Yeah I know you wouldn't ask)

She shows you a drivers License that is spot on correct, says she's 23
Now you take her home and bang her brains out.
The next day two local detectives stop by your house and show you the girls drivers license and ask , "do you know this girl?'
You being an honest guy say "sure, I met her last night"
Detectives say, "she said she had consensual sex with you, is this true"
You say "yes we had consensual sex"

They say "sir stand up ands place your hands behind your back your under arrest for statutory rape"
"The girl is 15 and the age of consent is 16 in this state"

You're thinking "She had ID, I can beat this"
No you can't
In almost every state it matters nit what ID she had or where she was when you met her.
The only burden of proof the prosecutor must meet is this:
One, you had sex with her
Two, she was in fact under age at the time you banged her.
Now you're fucked!

For argument sake and the those that will say they wouldn't admit to anything>
The girls statement that she met you and had sex with you and the fact her father took her directly to the ER and they did a rape kit is enough probable cause to get a warrant for you DNA even if you stand silent.
You're fucked again in that scenario too.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:57:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
This can be challenged. A driver's license is not even required to be shown to sell a firearm to an individual in Texas.
The seller broke no laws, he is not required to do a background check if he is not a dealer. As long as the seller has no knowledge of any reason why the buyer would not legally be able to purchase said firearm, he can sell legally in Texas.

It is the buyer who is breaking the law. I see this hitting the courts in a big way, and ATF eating crow.



I hope so
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 7:57:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
This can be challenged. A driver's license is not even required to be shown to sell a firearm to an individual in Texas.
The seller broke no laws, he is not required to do a background check if he is not a dealer. As long as the seller has no knowledge of any reason why the buyer would not legally be able to purchase said firearm, he can sell legally in Texas.

It is the buyer who is breaking the law. I see this hitting the courts in a big way, and ATF eating crow.


Who has the money for all that?
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 5
Top Top