Student Loans, Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery - Page 2

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Posted: 9/2/2010 7:58:05 PM EDT

[#1]

Sallie Mae is a bucket of dicks.

Posted: 9/2/2010 8:47:46 PM EDT

[#2]

I'm glad my student debt was no more than 10k....I know a few people who have student loans in the 100k+ range.

Posted: 9/2/2010 9:58:49 PM EDT

[#3]

its kind of ironic that my lender is listed in the image, because it seems like all they care about is stringing me along as far as possible before trying to to get me to default and sell the bad loan to a collection agency, they even asked if i wanted to resign to a 20 year term to lower the monthly payments.

Posted: 9/2/2010 10:01:27 PM EDT

[#4]

If I give back my degree, my credentials and promise not to practice in that field, can I get a refund?

Serious replies only.

Posted: 9/3/2010 11:16:23 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
If I give back my degree, my credentials and promise not to practice in that field, can I get a refund?

Serious replies only.

Maybe I was just lucky with my small loan for grad school.

How is a fixed rate, low interest loan with all the terms and conditions clearly specified such a horrible deal?

Paying for school with a credit card, which almost everyone does now to some extent, is much worse.

Posted: 9/3/2010 12:09:52 PM EDT

[#6]

And I just got this in an email.....

The UF Graduate School invites you to a Professional Development Workshop: "Managing your Money: How to Live on a Graduate Student's Income and Plan for the Future" Presented by Dr. Michael Gutter, Assistant Professor, Family Financial Management Wednesday, September 15, 2010 (1:00 p.m. - 2:00 p.m.) Criser Hall Auditorium Room 201A Seating is limited.

Posted: 9/3/2010 12:24:33 PM EDT

[#7]

That's a pretty accurate chart.

I listen to Dave Ramsey's program and am amazed at how much money most people owe on their student loans. 80 to 100 thousand dollars is not unusual.

They tell Dave, "Well I had to get a loan to pay for college."

He tells them, "No you didn't. I worked my way through college. I had no loan."

They have nothing to say, but you just know they want to say, "But that's just crazy talk!"

Another big problem with government getting its tentacles into every part of society.

Posted: 9/3/2010 8:08:03 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.

So instead we should be a nation of ignoramuses, making our living at manual labor?

Sorry, but no-fucking-way...

Dave is assuming that you learn useful things in college and marketable skills beyond manual labor. I assert that most college graduates are indeed ignoramuses, and that they might as well dig the ditch without having the student debt.

Posted: 9/3/2010 8:16:24 PM EDT

[#9]

I'm going against the trend here - partly because I'm in the boat for them, and partly because of ethics - student loans should be treated the same as any other loan. It is an illegitimate use of governmental authority to protect one class of loans come-hell-or-high-water, while another class can be discharged in bankruptcy.

In my particular case, bankruptcy would provide no relief.

Furthermore, prior to 2005, bankruptcy protection existed for borrowers. Applying bankruptcy immunity to debt that was incurred pre-2005 is an ex post facto law. I'm seriously tempted to declare bankrutpcy just to take that through the legal system - it is blatantly and wholly unconstitutional.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:15:53 PM EDT

[#10]

Right out of college, I worked for some lawyers. These guys represented nearly everybody, thieves, killers, murderers, you name it they did it; however, they refused to do two things:
divorces and bankruptcies.

Educational costs are out of control
[funny, but I think the attempt to "control" costs is part of the problem]:
http://www.economist.com/node/16960438

College costs are skyrocketing out of control, mostly propped up by government spending and subsidies. I'm of the opinion that most college degrees are of questionable value, and loathe the idea that college has become the new "minimum" standard. The solutions are not easy, and will be quite painful.

Bankruptcy for student loans? Only if the creditors can take possession of your transcript.

Yes, this is a really harsh thing to say, and I don't like saying it, as I'm just some anonymous jackass sitting halfway across the country in Virginia; however, if you want student loans to be treated the same as any other debt, then the creditors should be the ones that have the final say in the release of your transcript.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:24:16 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
College costs are skyrocketing out of control, mostly propped up by government spending and subsidies. I'm of the opinion that most college degrees are of questionable value, and loathe the idea that college has become the new "minimum" standard. The solutions are not easy, and will be quite painful.

Students in the UNC system are being charged a minimum of another $200 per student this year, up to $750 at several schools. Just this year alone. Not including tuition hikes from last year, or the year before, or the year before that. This most recent hike is an attempt to close gaps in the state's budget.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:26:22 PM EDT

[#12]

I don't like loans. I use scholarships instead.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:29:46 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
That's a pretty accurate chart.

I listen to Dave Ramsey's program and am amazed at how much money most people owe on their student loans. 80 to 100 thousand dollars is not unusual.

They tell Dave, "Well I had to get a loan to pay for college."

He tells them, "No you didn't. I worked my way through college. I had no loan."

They have nothing to say, but you just know they want to say, "But that's just crazy talk!"

Another big problem with government getting its tentacles into every part of society.

dave ramsey needs to shut the fuck up. Half the shit he says is retarded. When Dave went to school, tuition was no where near what it is today. Making enough money in some part time job to pay for your schooling nowadays is next to impossible, unless of course you want to do it in 8 years

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:32:34 PM EDT

[#14]

My wife and I are both in school right now. She's a senior in a nursing school - I'm a 4th year freshman after changing majors late in the game.

We have a combined total of $7.5k in student loans right now. I work full time, she works part time. We make enough money to:

*Pay for tuition every year in full, including books and parking passes and other bullshit fees

*Pay rent on time and in full every single month

*Put a good amount away into savings for a house every month

Working through college is not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sacrificing now (by not partying every night, not wasting money on stupid shit, etc.) so that we can have a better future. I'm not sure why this is so lost on my generation.

Does it suck? Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out by not being an immature sack of shit. I do know one thing, however: we will be so far ahead of these people when it comes to real life that it won't even be funny. Our work experience is in our degree fields (hers in a hospital, mine in a software engineering firm), our work ethic has become even stronger, and we are not slaves to debt.

It feels damn good.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:35:53 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
My wife and I are both in school right now. She's a senior in a nursing school - I'm a 4th year freshman after changing majors late in the game.

We have a combined total of $7.5k in student loans right now. I work full time, she works part time. We make enough money to:
*Pay for tuition every year in full, including books and parking passes and other bullshit fees
*Pay rent on time and in full every single month
*Put a good amount away into savings for a house every month

Working through college is not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sacrificing now (by not partying every night, not wasting money on stupid shit, etc.) so that we can have a better future. I'm not sure why this is so lost on my generation.

Does it suck? Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out by not being an immature sack of shit. I do know one thing, however: we will be so far ahead of these people when it comes to real life that it won't even be funny. Our work experience is in our degree fields (hers in a hospital, mine in a software engineering firm), our work ethic has become even stronger, and we are not slaves to debt.

It feels damn good.

?4th year freshman

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:37:10 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

My wife and I are both in school right now. She's a senior in a nursing school - I'm a 4th year freshman after changing majors late in the game.

We have a combined total of $7.5k in student loans right now. I work full time, she works part time. We make enough money to:

*Pay for tuition every year in full, including books and parking passes and other bullshit fees

*Pay rent on time and in full every single month

*Put a good amount away into savings for a house every month

Working through college is not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sacrificing now (by not partying every night, not wasting money on stupid shit, etc.) so that we can have a better future. I'm not sure why this is so lost on my generation.

Does it suck? Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out by not being an immature sack of shit. I do know one thing, however: we will be so far ahead of these people when it comes to real life that it won't even be funny. Our work experience is in our degree fields (hers in a hospital, mine in a software engineering firm), our work ethic has become even stronger, and we are not slaves to debt.

It feels damn good.

?4th year freshman

I was 3 years in on a Philosophy degree - I changed majors to computer science at the beginning of my senior year.

It's a different way of saying that I'm a freshman again after 4 years. Sorry to have confused you.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:39:45 PM EDT

[#17]

If you don't want the loans, get a job and pay as you go.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:43:15 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My wife and I are both in school right now. She's a senior in a nursing school - I'm a 4th year freshman after changing majors late in the game.

We have a combined total of $7.5k in student loans right now. I work full time, she works part time. We make enough money to:
*Pay for tuition every year in full, including books and parking passes and other bullshit fees
*Pay rent on time and in full every single month
*Put a good amount away into savings for a house every month

Working through college is not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sacrificing now (by not partying every night, not wasting money on stupid shit, etc.) so that we can have a better future. I'm not sure why this is so lost on my generation.

Does it suck? Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out by not being an immature sack of shit. I do know one thing, however: we will be so far ahead of these people when it comes to real life that it won't even be funny. Our work experience is in our degree fields (hers in a hospital, mine in a software engineering firm), our work ethic has become even stronger, and we are not slaves to debt.

It feels damn good.

?4th year freshman

I was 3 years in on a Philosophy degree - I changed majors to computer science at the beginning of my senior year.

It's a different way of saying that I'm a freshman again after 4 years. Sorry to have confused you.

computer science huh? Should of went computer engineering instead imo. they get the best of both worlds, the EE side of things while at the same time taking heavy coding classes. Plus then you get a degree that says "engineer" on it which is a solid thing to have. I have my degree in EE FWIW

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:45:34 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

My wife and I are both in school right now. She's a senior in a nursing school - I'm a 4th year freshman after changing majors late in the game.

We have a combined total of $7.5k in student loans right now. I work full time, she works part time. We make enough money to:

*Pay for tuition every year in full, including books and parking passes and other bullshit fees

*Pay rent on time and in full every single month

*Put a good amount away into savings for a house every month

Working through college is not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sacrificing now (by not partying every night, not wasting money on stupid shit, etc.) so that we can have a better future. I'm not sure why this is so lost on my generation.

Does it suck? Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out by not being an immature sack of shit. I do know one thing, however: we will be so far ahead of these people when it comes to real life that it won't even be funny. Our work experience is in our degree fields (hers in a hospital, mine in a software engineering firm), our work ethic has become even stronger, and we are not slaves to debt.

It feels damn good.

?4th year freshman

I was 3 years in on a Philosophy degree - I changed majors to computer science at the beginning of my senior year.

It's a different way of saying that I'm a freshman again after 4 years. Sorry to have confused you.

computer science huh? Should of went computer engineering instead imo. they get the best of both worlds, the EE side of things while at the same time taking heavy coding classes. Plus then you get a degree that says "engineer" on it which is a solid thing to have. I have my degree in EE FWIW

At my school I can come out with a BSCS and a BSCE for just one extra semester's worth of work.

I figure...shit, I'll have been in school for 8 years, might as well make it 8.5.

Posted: 9/3/2010 9:48:56 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My wife and I are both in school right now. She's a senior in a nursing school - I'm a 4th year freshman after changing majors late in the game.

We have a combined total of $7.5k in student loans right now. I work full time, she works part time. We make enough money to:
*Pay for tuition every year in full, including books and parking passes and other bullshit fees
*Pay rent on time and in full every single month
*Put a good amount away into savings for a house every month

Working through college is not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sacrificing now (by not partying every night, not wasting money on stupid shit, etc.) so that we can have a better future. I'm not sure why this is so lost on my generation.

Does it suck? Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out by not being an immature sack of shit. I do know one thing, however: we will be so far ahead of these people when it comes to real life that it won't even be funny. Our work experience is in our degree fields (hers in a hospital, mine in a software engineering firm), our work ethic has become even stronger, and we are not slaves to debt.

It feels damn good.

?4th year freshman

I was 3 years in on a Philosophy degree - I changed majors to computer science at the beginning of my senior year.

It's a different way of saying that I'm a freshman again after 4 years. Sorry to have confused you.

computer science huh? Should of went computer engineering instead imo. they get the best of both worlds, the EE side of things while at the same time taking heavy coding classes. Plus then you get a degree that says "engineer" on it which is a solid thing to have. I have my degree in EE FWIW

At my school I can come out with a BSCS and a BSCE for just one extra semester's worth of work.

I figure...shit, I'll have been in school for 8 years, might as well make it 8.5.

Sounds like a solid idea to me. An engineering degree will open more doors for you than a CS degree or any other undergrad degree for that matter imo.

Posted: 9/3/2010 11:55:43 PM EDT

[#21]

yea, im not too worried about it, ill have about $30k in student loan debt, I'll have it paid off in two years or less once i get a job in my field. I'd rather graduate in 6years than 12. I gotta pay it anyway, why not get it out of the way sooner.

If I make $10k and take a loan on $4k per year, for 5-6 years, get a job making 50k+ per year...

or make $20k and have nothing to pay off, but do this for 10-12 years... HMmmmm

.

In all reality Ill probably make $75k+ out of school... But i need to get an internship in a bad way.

Posted: 9/4/2010 6:16:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
computer science huh? Should of went computer engineering instead imo. they get the best of both worlds, the EE side of things while at the same time taking heavy coding classes. Plus then you get a degree that says "engineer" on it which is a solid thing to have. I have my degree in EE FWIW

"Should have went"?

You need a refund.

Posted: 9/4/2010 6:45:15 AM EDT

[#23]

I took out a few student loans...worked 40+ hours a week, took 6 years instead of 4, but I did it on my own and paid it off...

If the loans were payable ONLY to the university, there would be a lot less trouble, IMHO. Too many students use student loans for expensive apartments, new cars, partying, etc...They think it's free money.

The ones that make me sick are the students that I hear mouthing off about how they won't even consider an interview for a position that pays less than $100k, then they graduate and find out that they can't get a job flipping burgers at McDonald's. The most obnoxious one that I can think of ended up selling TV's at Ultimate Electronics after spending 4 years in college telling all his friends how much money he was going to make as a stock broker when he got out of school. Reality can be harsh, huh?

Posted: 9/4/2010 6:49:58 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I'm going against the trend here - partly because I'm in the boat for them, and partly because of ethics - student loans should be treated the same as any other loan. It is an illegitimate use of governmental authority to protect one class of loans come-hell-or-high-water, while another class can be discharged in bankruptcy.

In my particular case, bankruptcy would provide no relief.

Furthermore, prior to 2005, bankruptcy protection existed for borrowers. Applying bankruptcy immunity to debt that was incurred pre-2005 is an ex post facto law. I'm seriously tempted to declare bankrutpcy just to take that through the legal system - it is blatantly and wholly unconstitutional.

Of course, the other option would be to pay the debt that you gave your word that you would pay back.

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:11:03 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm going against the trend here - partly because I'm in the boat for them, and partly because of ethics - student loans should be treated the same as any other loan. It is an illegitimate use of governmental authority to protect one class of loans come-hell-or-high-water, while another class can be discharged in bankruptcy.

In my particular case, bankruptcy would provide no relief.

Furthermore, prior to 2005, bankruptcy protection existed for borrowers. Applying bankruptcy immunity to debt that was incurred pre-2005 is an ex post facto law. I'm seriously tempted to declare bankrutpcy just to take that through the legal system - it is blatantly and wholly unconstitutional.

Of course, the other option would be to pay the debt that you gave your word that you would pay back.

Just imagine what the terms and conditions for student debt would be if you could use bankruptcy to discharge it.

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:11:14 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm going against the trend here - partly because I'm in the boat for them, and partly because of ethics - student loans should be treated the same as any other loan. It is an illegitimate use of governmental authority to protect one class of loans come-hell-or-high-water, while another class can be discharged in bankruptcy.

In my particular case, bankruptcy would provide no relief.

Furthermore, prior to 2005, bankruptcy protection existed for borrowers. Applying bankruptcy immunity to debt that was incurred pre-2005 is an ex post facto law. I'm seriously tempted to declare bankrutpcy just to take that through the legal system - it is blatantly and wholly unconstitutional.

Of course, the other option would be to pay the debt that you gave your word that you would pay back.

Or you could join the .mil. The DoD has student loan forgiveness programs.

Or you could have considered what paying off student loans would entail, BEFORE agreeing to taking the .gov cheese.

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:33:47 AM EDT

[#27]

There is a great deal of congruence between this issue and the mortgage crisis. My sympathies are similarly held.

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:39:50 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
There is a great deal of congruence between this issue and the mortgage crisis. My sympathies are similarly held.

I kinda agree, although the banks were perpetrating a fair number of shenanigans as well.

But, on the part of consumers, that don't think they should have to repay, student loans, mortgages, or car loans, and to suffer any negative consequences for failing to make the requred payments, is EXACTLY the same.

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:43:11 AM EDT

[#29]

No student loans as undergrad for me. I got out and went to work debt free. 14 years later when I went back to grad school I found one in Conn. where I didn't have to pay any tuition or fees in return for one years work after graduation. However, I couldn't work during school and Conn. is insanely expensive to live. So, I borrowed 44k in student loans to live on for 2 years.
The education tripled my salary but it still irks me about borrowing the money.

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:48:25 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I managed to get through my undergrad years without taking student loans. I am now applying to professional school and student debt is my number one concern. However, I am left with few options. Who can afford 100K+ in tuition without turning to loans?

what are you studying?

I am applying to medical school- both D.O. and M.D.
Edit: About half of the schools I applied to are private, about 35-40K per year.

http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/education/hpsp.html

Posted: 9/4/2010 7:51:03 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

I'd care, but I don't. Too many people who have absolutely no business being in college are going.

Yep. Exactly.

Except I DO care.
I see it every fucking day and it pisses me off to no end.
Masses of utter and complete dumbfucks who SOMEHOW fell backwards out of high school with a high enough grade-inflated high school GPA (fuck the SAT - it's racist!) to get into college who then pack themselves into the lecture halls on the first week of class using student loans they should never be getting, then they drive up the cost of education for everyone else by increasing the demand and taking seats away from kids who really ARE smart enough to be in college.
They fuck up the entire college experience for students who actually belong there.
And those are the ones who bitch and moan the most about "Oh 'Mr.' Macallan I NEEEEEED to pass this class or else I won't get my financial aide next semester!!"
"Well fuck you Lucita - what you really NEEEEEED to do is go fucking learn how to toss tamales because Filbertos is hiring and you're to fucking STUPID to become a Veterinarian so take your 42% test average scores and get the fuck out of my office!"

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:01:36 AM EDT

[#32]

The idea that everyone is entitled to higher education is ludicrous.
College isnt a God given birth right....it is an institution that sells a product.
If you cant afford that product you dont get to have it as your own.
If a private lender wishes to extend you a loan to obtain it, that is between you and said lender.
The government should have absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

A lot of people owe money on loans that they cannot pay because their college degree is in a field with little opportunity for earning money. Frankly, allowing 18 year old children to make $100,000 decisions is negligent on the part of the parents. I've seen too many people with $125k+ in debt so that they could gain a career that pays them $35,000 per year. These people have no justified complaint...they chose poorly....and poor choices do in fact have consequences.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:05:07 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

The idea that everyone is entitled to higher education is ludicrous.

College isnt a God given birth right....it is an institution that sells a product.

If you cant afford that product you dont get to have it as your own.

If a private lender wishes to extend you a loan to obtain it, that is between you and said lender.

The government should have absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

A lot of people owe money on loans that they cannot pay because their college degree is in a field with little opportunity for earning money. Frankly, allowing 18 year old children to make $100,000 decisions is negligent on the part of the parents. I've seen too many people with $125k+ in debt so that they could gain a career that pays them $35,000 per year. These people have no justified complaint...they chose poorly....and poor choices do in fact have consequences.

Not really.

The "product" is the educated-student that is provided by the University to society.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:06:50 AM EDT

[#34]

It is also one of the reasons tuition is so high. When are people going to realize that throwing a lot of money at something is inflationary. Tuition...health care etc. etc.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:06:51 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's a pretty accurate chart.

I listen to Dave Ramsey's program and am amazed at how much money most people owe on their student loans. 80 to 100 thousand dollars is not unusual.

They tell Dave, "Well I had to get a loan to pay for college."

He tells them, "No you didn't. I worked my way through college. I had no loan."

They have nothing to say, but you just know they want to say, "But that's just crazy talk!"

Another big problem with government getting its tentacles into every part of society.

dave ramsey needs to shut the fuck up. Half the shit he says is retarded. When Dave went to school, tuition was no where near what it is today. Making enough money in some part time job to pay for your schooling nowadays is next to impossible, unless of course you want to do it in 8 years

FWIW, I took my time to earn my degree...I paid cash and didnt follow in the footsteps of my friends who incurred huge loans to get it all done in 4 years. Now we are all in our 40's. I've never had one penny in debt, they are still paying off their loans.

Who is retarded?

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:08:32 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There is a great deal of congruence between this issue and the mortgage crisis. My sympathies are similarly held.

I kinda agree, although the banks were perpetrating a fair number of shenanigans as well.

But, on the part of consumers, that don't think they should have to repay, student loans, mortgages, or car loans, and to suffer any negative consequences for failing to make the requred payments, is EXACTLY the same.

Is it wrong that I'm strangely looking forward to the bubble bursting and hordes of liberal academics being banished from their ivory towers into the real world?

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:11:25 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
US Army paid for my BS degree. But I earned it.

GOOD FOR YOU!

I was going to comment about the lack of mention of military scholarships, academies, and other programs that I don't see when topics about college funding come up.

GOOD FOR YOU for doing it, mentioning it, and beating me to the punch.

ATABOY!

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:13:05 AM EDT

[#38]

I got through college on student loans, best investment I ever made. I appreciate all the taxpayers that helped fund it, and don't worry I went and got a useful degree and have paid back the loans plus more, much more through my income taxes.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:13:31 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The idea that everyone is entitled to higher education is ludicrous.
College isnt a God given birth right....it is an institution that sells a product.
If you cant afford that product you dont get to have it as your own.
If a private lender wishes to extend you a loan to obtain it, that is between you and said lender.
The government should have absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

A lot of people owe money on loans that they cannot pay because their college degree is in a field with little opportunity for earning money. Frankly, allowing 18 year old children to make $100,000 decisions is negligent on the part of the parents. I've seen too many people with $125k+ in debt so that they could gain a career that pays them $35,000 per year. These people have no justified complaint...they chose poorly....and poor choices do in fact have consequences.

Not really.

The "product" is the educated-student that is provided by the University to society.

Approaching the issue with that perspective, would you also suggest that society should fund college educations? I don't disagree that society enjoys the benefit of educated people living within it, but make no mistake that universities still have CFO's, accountants, tax lawyers, etc.....they need to generate margin just like any 'for profit' industry....and they do so by marketing knowledge to people who desire it. And if they want it, they need to pay for it.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:38:55 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's a pretty accurate chart.

I listen to Dave Ramsey's program and am amazed at how much money most people owe on their student loans. 80 to 100 thousand dollars is not unusual.

They tell Dave, "Well I had to get a loan to pay for college."

He tells them, "No you didn't. I worked my way through college. I had no loan."

They have nothing to say, but you just know they want to say, "But that's just crazy talk!"

Another big problem with government getting its tentacles into every part of society.

dave ramsey needs to shut the fuck up. Half the shit he says is retarded. When Dave went to school, tuition was no where near what it is today. Making enough money in some part time job to pay for your schooling nowadays is next to impossible, unless of course you want to do it in 8 years

FWIW, I took my time to earn my degree...I paid cash and didnt follow in the footsteps of my friends who incurred huge loans to get it all done in 4 years. Now we are all in our 40's. I've never had one penny in debt, they are still paying off their loans.

Who is retarded?

well it depends how you look at it. I graduated college with an EE degree when I was 22. I had a job offer before I graduated for 60k. I graduated with 40k in student loan debt. So if i waited 4 more years to graduate, thats 240k+ that I lost out on because of not taking loans. Obviously there are taxes and what not that need to be factored into that salary. So lets say 25% in taxes. Thats still 180K+ when you factor in raises and whatnot that I am ahead bc of graduating in 4 years vs 8. Subtract my student loan debt from that, which after interest is about 55k, when all said and done, and that leaves me with 125K+ that I wouldnt of had by being in college another 4 years. Add into the fact that my company matches 4% in my 401k, thats 4 more years of compounding interest. Those 4 extra years early on of adding to your 401k make quite a bit of difference when your getting ready to retire. Finally, add into the fact that I have 4 more years of work experience that I wouldnt of had by being in college for 4 more years not having student loans. So when looking at it that way, I would say I am not the retarded one. That doesnt leave many options of who is, now does it?

Also, if your buddies graduated in 4 years, and are still paying on student loans when they are in their 40's, they must be retarded or they got incredibly shitty degrees. They are 10 year loans. So they refinanced them? Stupid.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:40:28 AM EDT

[#41]

Go to school. Join military. Win the game.

Posted: 9/4/2010 8:56:59 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.

This is a large part of where all of the extra money is going into, not program development. In fact, most programs seem to get less and less every year. For example, the graduate laboratory that my wife is working on her thesis in is in ancient and in poor condition, making it difficult to get accurate results.

It used to be that you could work summers at minimum wage and earn enough to pay for a years tuition. Back then, the buildings were simple and utilitarian, I thought that the first university that I went to had so much bare concrete on its buildings that they looked like bomb shelters! Some of the new buildings at ASU are gorgeous, almost works of art, which cost much much more than their utilitarian counterparts.

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:05:26 AM EDT

[#43]

Oh it's also very hard to get a job while going to school now. I'm sure some of you did it ezmode but most companies or private people REQUIRE that you have previous experience. Every job has over 100 applicants even for the shitty 4hr/week pulling weeds job. The market is flooded with experienced people and no one is willing to work with students to work around their class hours. I've tried for 4 semesters to get a job. Any job. From nanny, to cleaning houses, to pulling weeds, to mowing, painting, construction, restaurants....the only job I've been able to get was working construction for my GF's dad over the summer for 30hrs/week. It sucks.

I planned on joining the military afterward anyways so hopefully since I haven't borrowed a whole lot they will be able to pay back most or all of my loans...if that even works anymore (any recruiters on here?)

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:14:22 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The idea that everyone is entitled to higher education is ludicrous.

College isnt a God given birth right....it is an institution that sells a product.

If you cant afford that product you dont get to have it as your own.

If a private lender wishes to extend you a loan to obtain it, that is between you and said lender.

The government should have absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

A lot of people owe money on loans that they cannot pay because their college degree is in a field with little opportunity for earning money. Frankly, allowing 18 year old children to make $100,000 decisions is negligent on the part of the parents. I've seen too many people with $125k+ in debt so that they could gain a career that pays them $35,000 per year. These people have no justified complaint...they chose poorly....and poor choices do in fact have consequences.

Not really.

The "product" is the educated-student that is provided by the University to society.

Approaching the issue with that perspective, would you also suggest that society should fund college educations? I don't disagree that society enjoys the benefit of educated people living within it, but make no mistake that universities still have CFO's, accountants, tax lawyers, etc.....they need to generate margin just like any 'for profit' industry....and they do so by marketing knowledge to people who desire it. And if they want it, they need to pay for it.

Unless it's a private college, society DOES pay part of the costs of college education.

Public Universities are funded, in part, by taxpayers.

The business-model of higher education (where the student is viewed as a "customer" to be served) is backwards, upside-down and destructive to quality education.

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:22:40 AM EDT

[#45]

Well I don't know about the rest of arfcom but I pay my bills and with a rate like my wifes school loan of 2.35% I wish I could put my house on a school loan.

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:42:10 AM EDT

[#46]

After I finish my 2nd year next summer, I'll have $110K in student debt.

However, I also did my homework and figured out the cost/benefit and my income will likely increase by 50% or more, post-graduation.

The moral of the story? Do you fuckin' homework.

RF

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:42:18 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Misspelled LEARN as LEAN on second to last sticky note.

And misspelled addiction as addition in the beginning.

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:45:01 AM EDT

[#48]

GI Bill is paying for my classes at Indiana University.

It's very nice....

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:46:31 AM EDT

[#49]

Debt Slavery, the worst case scenario would be filing for bankruptcy.

Ass opposed to slavery, where trying to 'file for bankruptcy' by escaping the labors that they are forced to do or face severe and violent punishments.

Who do you think are the 'save masters'?

This sounds like it might be more of the same "the ruling class" bullshit that's being spread around these days.

Posted: 9/4/2010 9:53:48 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's a pretty accurate chart.

I listen to Dave Ramsey's program and am amazed at how much money most people owe on their student loans. 80 to 100 thousand dollars is not unusual.

They tell Dave, "Well I had to get a loan to pay for college."

He tells them, "No you didn't. I worked my way through college. I had no loan."

They have nothing to say, but you just know they want to say, "But that's just crazy talk!"

Another big problem with government getting its tentacles into every part of society.

dave ramsey needs to shut the fuck up. Half the shit he says is retarded. When Dave went to school, tuition was no where near what it is today. Making enough money in some part time job to pay for your schooling nowadays is next to impossible, unless of course you want to do it in 8 years

Not impossible. You could work hard to get great grades in HS to get a few scholarships, join the National Guard for GI Bill, Student loan repayment, drill pay, live at home/ have multiple roommates, get a part-time job, eat Ramen noodles, start at a Community College for the first couple of years then transfer to a name school for the degree, drive a POS car you share with your brother. Loans are a lot easier, though.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Student Loans, Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery (Page 2 of 4)

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