If you want to swap out the Porsche M28 engine (a fabulous engine, with basically infinite longevity if maintained right), buy another car.
Really - and I'm not a purist.
The car was a package, and it was designed to be a package.

I've done a ton of 951 to SBC (LT1/LT4/LS1), and it works, but it's not right.
YMMV.

and is flat, air and oil cooled right?

The joke was always that #1 was mid-engined. Then they got confused.
(It is, BTW).

ah, the infamous test mule!   wasn't there a MB one too?

the way I see it, prices for repairs are going to start skyrocketing very fast and the original Porsche engine just will not be a option to keep them on the road. I suspect with a slight tunning of the exhaust most would never even know the difference with a LS engine.

I have also noticed used 928s in good shape are starting to go up in price fast.

Edit, many times packages can be improved on, and I see the 928 to LS as a improvement in every way making a perfect looking car into a perfect to maintain car as well.

No, this was actually a company (Artz) that made anywhere from 5-12 of them.
I have a picture of an A2 Golf with an S4 drivetrain they did in '88. Trying to find it.

Having owned and work on 928's daily, I can say that there is a lot of mis-information about them in this thread.  I don't think I've put more than $4k in mine in 5 years, it's an '88 with 170k miles on it.   I also run an independent Porsche repair shop, so I get to see all sorts of things.  Parts are not as expensive as some think.  I can rebuild the tensioner for around $150.00 and have a bunch left from conversions to a more modern Audi tensioning system.

The cars got a bad rap as the original owners decided not to spend the money on upkeep, and then passed them off to others that didn't have the money to keep them up.  That leads to cars that are inexpensive to buy, but owners are not happy with the fact they got a $50-$90k car for $5k, and need to spend money to get them up to snuff.

Best bet, if you want one, find the best example you can, and then go from there.  The 928 was the first truly designed/built in house, Porsche and way ahead of its time.  Mine's a daily driver.  Can't imagine driving anything else.

I got nothing to say other than have yall seen the Porsche panameras??

*vomit*

No one wants to lump the 924 in there?

Oh man, your making it harder for me to try to justify not getting one.

Not around here, they're not.
A good (and I mean good) S4 with less than 100k is a $13k car here.
Prices for major engine work will not skyrocket, as the parts supply won't get any worse, and some aftermarket solutions are appearing. The engines are also unbelievably long-lived if maintained, with the rings being the major wear item.
I had a 1982 apart a few years ago with 450k, and there was less than .001" of cylinder wall wear.
Re-ring, new bearings, and back it goes.

SeanR, what shop in Texas is yours.



Feel free to PM if you don't to mention it publicly.



Nice to have another Porsche/Gun nut around.

same reason why the 8 series BMWs aren't popular - you can't find parts.

I will second that, were in Texas are you?

When I worked at the Porsche wrecking yard back in the late 80's, we saw a lot of 914's with the small block conversions.



 

I'm up in Denton, right on the border with Argyle.

To address the parts issues some say is one, it's not.  I can get almost any part for a 928 same day or 3rd day out of Germany.  There are some items that are NLA (no longer available) but we have some great vendors in the 928 community that have engineered most of those to updated parts.  Just here in DFW, the club is over 150 strong with a recorded 360 928s in the area.   Meet every first Saturday of the month (next one is at the Pancake house in Grapevine)

No, those aren't popular because they suck.
The 928 was always a better car in every way than the 8-series.
8-series are mechanically identical to the 5/7 from which they derived. Body and interior parts can be harder, but between Mobile Tradition and Maximillian, I haven't found anything I couldn't get.

They just suck.
When at the dealer, we used to see them come in with the headlight buckets broken, all the time. If you popped the hood with the lights up (at a gas station, for instance), it'd break the buckets. The covers were color matched to the car, and were bonded onto the buckets using an insanely complicated jig. It was a $2-3k repair 10 years ago.

No thanks.

Oh, and they're slow, don't handle real well, and the fastest was the one with the smallest engine (840CSi).

Are there specific years that are better than others on the 928? I dont really care about absolute speed, my preference is on reliability and repairability.

I noticed on Ebay there is a 92 928 GTS, are those something special and when did they stop making the 928?

Sean, you are not too far away from me.

I've got to second this.



The only parts I have heard of people not being able to find are 968 Cabriotlet top related items.



There were LOTS of 944's/924's around.

Last year for the 928's was 1995 if I remember correctly.



I seem to recall not many were made that year.  Maybe around 30 or so??



I do recall reading that the last one off the line was Pea green in color.

if I could I'd just BIN on that stick GTS  :(  

the GTS is the last most powerful iteration, with the manual transaxle the most rare.  if you live somewhere with expanses of open road either version would rule.

If there is a 1992 GTS for sale in the USA, grab it.  There are only 2 in the USA, one in Austin and the other ended up being shipped back home to Germany.  They were only available in Europe that year.   As far as what year is best?  There isn't except personal preference.  Mine being 87-88's.  For someone that knows the CIS system, the early cars might be best for them.  I prefer the computer set up on the LH/EZK-F cars.   As long as it has been maintained as it should be, and at least clean0ed up once in its lifetime, they are good cars.   There is a huge check list of things to look at for a prospective buyer.  My PPI (pre-purchase inspection form) is 5 pages long.

Here's some discussion about that GTS 5-speed.  Rennlist is the best place for information on these cars.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/928-forum/588382-whos-going-to-buy-this-gts-5spd-quickly.html

Sean, it is right here in Dallas.

928 Gts

This or the Middle Ala 914, 916, 917, 550,  Boxster, Etc

Is the 928 loud inside like a Corvette?

Why would you spend all that money on that car, and then put crappy tires on it?
People never fail to amaze me.

That's a decent looking GTS, the interior is exactly how mine is getting converted to Classic gray.  

Things I notice just from the pictures.  Needs rear belly pan, needs jump post cover, has had the intake off for a refresh (knock sensors are new)  Has crappy aftermarket plug wires not Beru's,   Missing fuel rail cover, (if you have the intake off, why not refinish it???)  If knock sensors were bad, so is the Hall sensor connector, it's a highly optioned car, think it looks nice.  It might be the one I took a look over a few months ago that was at Zim's Autochek.

LOL



Let me know how that works out for you



 

So, what kind of yearly/scheduled maintenance do these vehicles require?  More specifically, if you were looking at a 944 or 928, what would you want to know with regards to the engine and service history?

Yearly, change the oil.  
two years, change coolant, bleed the brakes/clutch if you have one.
Every few years, on the auto box, change the ATF/trans filter

5-6 years/60 k miles, timing belt and inspect the parts associated with it.  There is no recommended time on water pumps, but I say change them every time you do the belt.   Although I don't live by that myself, I can change it out if it leaks/fails quick.

What to look for, long list.   The 928 and 944's are very similar in the make up, but very few parts are interchangeable.  Not until late model years of the 944, and those are usually electric stuff.  I try not to mess with the 944 as much, but have done some work.  So most of this will be 928 related.

Records are a huge bonus.  Making sure the timing belt has been services.  That is the largest one.   Drive it and listen for drive train noise.  Torque tube (drive shaft) bearings can go bad.  On the auto boxes the carrier bearings go bad also and is sometimes mis-diagnosed as the torque tube.

On auto cars, have the flex plate checked yearly, this is the where the torque tube attaches to the flywheel.  If not checked regularly, it can cause thrust bearing failure.  If that is f-d, buying a new motor is the best option.  Short blocks can be had for as low as $2k.

Later cars have more sensors that go bad over time, knock sensors, hall sensors, crank position sensors.  If the top end (intake) has been refreshed, it should be good for another 20 years.  IF it was done right.  Early cars 78-79 have CIS mechanical fuel injection.  Old school and those that know it are getting up there in the years.  

With us having to use Ethanol in our gas (thanks to those bastards in da gumbint) I am seeing a lot of failures in fuel pumps and hoses.  The first thing I tell a customer, is to get those changed, then show them an '88 I got sitting at the yard, it burned from a failed rear U-shaped fuel hose.   You don't have to use factory stuff for that.  But you do have to get the right hose and connectors.  

The best option for someone looking for one, find one and have someone who KNOWS these cars look it over.  There are several resources out there, rennlist.com being the largest community that make owning them great.  Sort of like ARF.com for information on guns.

Sir. I am offended.

I wondered if you would catch that.   :)

Didn't the heirs to the Porsche family take control of VW in a diabolically crooked deal last year anyway?  

I think it was the other way around...

A couple of weeks ago, Porsche tried it again.  Don't know the results though.  Two families trying to buy the other out.  Business and politic work really weird over there.

A guy I used to work with has a Porsche 944 body on top of what is mostly Subbie WRX STI running gear.  He did the conversion before I met him, so I don't know many of the details but he started with a 1990 944 with a broken motor and an 06 subaru that had a tree fall on it and total it without having valid insurance .  hella fast, AWD and looks like a porch...  [yeah, I know there were TONS of mechanical hurdles to overcome, but he drove the car to work every day, so he got it to work.]

I do believe that Porche designed the VW beatle at the request of Hitler.

They are made in Stuttgart, Germany (the horse in the logo is also the city logo);

German labor is not cheap to begin with, and Stuttgart is one of the most expensive areas to live in Germany.

Blah blah blah.

The REAL question is do you pronounce it "Porshh" or "Porshh-uh"?

Pics please.
There is no 1990 944, only a 944S2, and I really can't figure out how it was done. The STi engine won't fit between the strut towers, If the transmission is far enough forward to actually drive the front wheels the engine would be where the radiator sits, etc, etc...

At the factory I was told that in the actual local dialect it's "Porsh", but everyone accepts that it should be "Porsh-uh" now.

That's interesting.  I had always been under the impression the the family members pronounced it as "Porsh-uh", and thought that was the definative answer.  I thought I had seen a video somewhere back where one of the members said it as "Porsh-uh"  Butzi, maybe, but I really don't remember.



Now you are shaking my faith in that decision.

Hey!  Don't diss the Kumho MX's...there a good tire!    

The same reason people spend $750-1000 on an AR, only to mount a $55 Chinese red dot on the thing...

Weird.  Devek gave me a factory training booklet and it specifically states two syllables as the correct pronunciation.  

The last 928 sold to the public was Perlglanz (sp) a kinda' bright chartreuse, the final final car was kept in the company.  To my knowledge at least which gets foggier every year .  The 928 Owners Club has more updated info no doubt.

The factory tour was fabulous, and actually made mention of the fact the HDPFCP was born in what is now the Czech Republic.
The last one is here:
http://www.landsharkoz.com/htm/sc/perlglanz.htm



Perlglanz

CAR & DRIVER July 1996

Jeez, you don't see many Perlglanz Porsche 928s anymore, huh?

Almost 19 years after it first appeared on the sports-car scene, the final US-Legal Porsche 928 rolled off the line and found its way not so promptly to an American showroom. At $184,938 with luxury tax, it's somewhat expensive.

Option-wise, it's somewhat weird. For starters, there's the metal-flake "Perlglanz" green paint ($2664), plus 20 additional liters of the stuff in case you suffer a shopping-cart ding at Kroger. Inside, you will likely notice the green leather seats ($24,817), not to mention (and we'd rather not) the custom-matched violet leather trim.

The latter is extensive, covering the steering wheel ($1315), the instrument pod ($1899), the door handles ($408), various air-vent surrounds ($1477), the seat-adjustment switches and ring plates ($1074), the loudspeaker trim rings ($832), the ashtray covers ($272), and, well, about 16 other items that you don't usually see slathered in violet and lavender and lilac cow skins.

If the would-be owner wants to replace the custom deep-pile plum carpet, there's an extra 20 meters in the trunk, plus six spare green-and-light-blue leather hides in case Billy Gibbons rudely stubs out a cigarette on a seat bolster (spare cow skins are part of a $22,410 option).

Finally, there are the, ah, purple seatbelts. These are costly ($9095), because the seatbelt supplier had to dye one entire roll of webbing.

Go ahead and describe it as gaudy, but remember that the very first 928s that came to America were fitted with psychedelic-checkerboard upholstery.

As we write this, the car depicted here is still for sale at one of this country's most interesting (and maybe bravest) dealerships: Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach, Florida."

Anybody know what the option codes are for some of the above items?

Here's most of the info on that car.  It was sold at champion to some Frenchy dude.  Never to be seen again when it left the states.

http://www.928registry.org/1995-928GTS-Pearlglanz.htm

On edit, option codes are on there.

because the 944 isn't really a porsche