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Posted: 4/11/2002 2:03:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 2:34:06 PM EDT by Philadelphia_GunMan]
[url]http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/3040545.htm[/url] I don't know if someone posted this already. This cop was a member of the local SWAT team. He used his government issued MP5 to murder 5 people. Three of the people he killed were his next door neighboors, one of whom he had made death threats to before. This cop put a sign on his front lawn threatening his neighbor. How does a cop do this and get away with it ? If I put a sign on my front lawn threatening my neighbor I would be arrested. This guy is was fucking SWAT team member who has a government issued machinegun in his house. At the very least they should of taken him off of the swat team and took away his MP5.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:01:16 PM EDT
What the hell. Is no one else as outraged at this as I am ?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:04:16 PM EDT
no.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:05:52 PM EDT
Outraged...maybe, perhaps but not entirely suprised.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:19:59 PM EDT
Why, only trained operators of the state should be allowed to possess machineguns! [rolleyes] Now, take this case in point. What if his next door neighbor would have pulled out his AR-15 while that SWAT guy attacked him? What if he would have shot up that SWAT guy in self-defense? Would he have gotten off free? Probably not. So you see folks, the state has a license to murder at your own expense (taxes). It is really worth fighting and dying for our wonderful country isn't it? themao [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:23:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By themao: Why, only trained operators of the state should be allowed to possess machineguns! [rolleyes] Now, take this case in point. What if his next door neighbor would have pulled out his AR-15 while that SWAT guy attacked him? What if he would have shot up that SWAT guy in self-defense? Would he have gotten off free? Probably not. So you see folks, the state has a license to murder at your own expense (taxes). It is really worth fighting and dying for our wonderful country isn't it? themao [chainsawkill]
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The only reason this cop's getting away with it is he's dead. Do you really think he wouldn't be on a fast raft to prison just because he's a cop? It's one thing to accidently shoot someone, quite another to go on a rampage. Clues don't cost a lot - you should save up for one.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:25:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By themao: Why, only trained operators of the state should be allowed to possess machineguns! [rolleyes] So you see folks, the state has a license to murder at your own expense (taxes). It is really worth fighting and dying for our wonderful country isn't it? themao
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i hear afghanistan and the former soviet union are looking for citizens are looking for citizens, why don't move there if things are so bad here. so the guy was a nut, they slip through the cracks. it happens.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:33:38 PM EDT
What I want to know is why the fuck this guy was still a cop after making death threats and posting a threat on a sign in plain public view ? So in NJ its OK for cops to make death threats ? WTF
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:36:14 PM EDT
his photo in that link makes him look like a nut job!
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:37:14 PM EDT
Without a doubt, the punk should have been removed from the force for making the threats. However, he didn't "get away with it" as themao claims. A bad scene, yes. Typical New Jersey? Yes.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:01:47 PM EDT
all this in the great communist state of NJ whare a lowly subject basically has no right to self defence.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:31:56 PM EDT
You know.... If firearms where banned and only authorized people carried them like the military and police, this would have never of happened. Oh, never mind. [:P]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:43:17 PM EDT
I'm trying to be more optimistic: On the bright side, there are 6 less assholes New Jerseyites in the world who would have eventually picked up and moved south. Hell, I'm shocked there are still 6 whole people still living in that awful state. I wish more cops would feed their rage in this manner, then our society might stop worshipping them.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:44:19 PM EDT
I guess his "pissed off" meter was pegged out. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 6:58:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gus: Without a doubt, the punk should have been removed from the force for making the threats. However, he didn't "get away with it" as themao claims. A bad scene, yes. Typical New Jersey? Yes.
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Look, HE DID GET AWAY WITH IT! Gus, what would happen to me if I started making death threats to cops in my neighborhood? I would have had my ass carted to jail and probably ganged raped by every mofo in the cell! Yet, the state failed to protect a citizen from one of their own. I don't buy the SWAT commander's punch that "we didn't know what was going on". That sounds just like all those clowns at Columbine High School, after those two dorks shot up the place. Later, we find out that they were made fun of or beat up every single day and the school administrators did nothing about it. Tragedy? Yes. Do I feel sorry? No. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see the real story behind all this. Something tells me there's more to this than one article, as with any tragedy. themao [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:02:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By quietshoez: i hear afghanistan and the former soviet union are looking for citizens are looking for citizens, why don't move there if things are so bad here. so the guy was a nut, they slip through the cracks. it happens.
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I hear that I have a piece of private property called my friggin house. What disentitles me off that piece of private property if I choose to flip the bird at the state? I didn't ask for their protection. So let me guess...OH! MY! I DON'T ACTUALLY OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY TO BEGIN WITH! IT BELONGS TO THE STATE! So that's why my family pays $10,000 in property tax every single year. It's rental payment; we don't own s#$t. Again, I don't buy the argument that this guy just "slipped through the cracks", just like the Columbine tragedy. Something here made him go wacko, and no one bothered to prevent it, neither his co-workers or anyone else in the state. themao [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:09:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 7:12:19 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Well, now we have had 6 murders committed with legally owned machine guns since 1934. In all cases, the legally owned machineguns were wielded by off duty cops. Not cop bashing and I usually take up for cops, but this just shows the stupidity and hypocricy of gun laws and those that say 'only cops and military should have guns', like, you know, Rosie and Hitlery. This was definitely a case of this particular cop, and apparently the administration of his department, having the superiority complex and the 'us vs. them' mentality because he made the threats and his department did not see fit to do anything about it and saw nothing wrong with it. Maybe the chief getting shot will make him pay more attention to any nutcases he has working for him.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:19:57 PM EDT
The local Philly station reported that the neighbor was accused and aquitted of molesting the cops daughter, he's dead . The neighbors testified on behalf of the accused, their dead. They have not said why he shot the chief. What do you think you would do if you were the molested girl's dad???? I don't know. Something to think about.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:30:55 PM EDT
SERVICE REVOLVER,MACHINEGUN,BASEBALL BAT, SLINGSHOT, IT DOESN'T MATTER MUCH IF SOME BASTARD TOUCHES YOUR KID...... yea I'm outraged if that pos got away with molesting that kid. maybe it was justice after all..... TNT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:33:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tnt: The local Philly station reported that the neighbor was accused and aquitted of molesting the cops daughter, he's dead . The neighbors testified on behalf of the accused, their dead. They have not said why he shot the chief. What do you think you would do if you were the molested girl's dad???? I don't know. Something to think about.
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Don't make excuses for this asshole. One, maybe the neighbor really wasn't guilty. Two, he killed FIVE people, not ONE. Do you think this jerk would be understanding if you killed someone you thought molested your daughter? NO, he would tell you that you should have trusted the justice system.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:48:50 PM EDT
I can only think what would you do in the same situation ....... trust the justice system???? I don't think so. Cop or not. What if he weren't a cop. Would he still be an ahole or someone defending his daughter?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:52:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tnt: The local Philly station reported that the neighbor was accused and aquitted of molesting the cops daughter, he's dead . The neighbors testified on behalf of the accused, their dead. They have not said why he shot the chief. What do you think you would do if you were the molested girl's dad???? I don't know. Something to think about.
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He shot a man who was deemed innocennt by a jury of his peers. This man had neighbors testify on behalf of his character the cop shot those people too. Plus he shot the innocent man's wife and kids (one of them lived). At least if you still think the guy was guilty, just shoot him. Maybe he would of just shot the one guy if he wasn't carring a machinegun.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:59:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 8:04:17 PM EDT by tnt]
You guys have valid points. Those people had a horrible feud going there. I pray that none of us will ever see that kind of drama. I think everyone involved will be pointing the finger at each other for a very long time. T
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:59:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tnt: I can only think what would you do in the same situation ....... trust the justice system???? I don't think so. Cop or not. What if he weren't a cop. Would he still be an ahole or someone defending his daughter?
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Again, you are assuming the man was guilty and making excuses for this asshole. MAYBE THE NEIGHBOR REALLY DIDN'T MOLEST HIS DAUGHTER. Maybe this molestation charge was just an attempt by the cop to screw his neighbor because he didn't like him. If he really felt that this guy did it, then shoot the one guy, not 4 others and then go shoot the police chief. Again, this cop would tell you to trust the justice system that he works in, so why didn't he follow his own advice? I guarantee that is what he would tell you. Do you think he would make excuses for you? NO, he would not.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:08:18 PM EDT
Larry G are you a cop hater???
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:16:48 PM EDT
Why is he a cop hater ? Becuase he is 100% correct ?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:32:50 PM EDT
You can go back and forth all day/night maybe the neighbor was innocent, perhaps he was guilty. One thing is for sure that man had his mind made up on who his targets would be. . I am not defending him . I may have a soft spot for the child. Surely you can understand that a parent will do whatever it takes to protect his children. Desparate people do desperate things. on the other hand maybe he was just f'd up. I usually just stay on the sidelines and read the posts, But I can't sleep.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:49:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tnt: Larry G are you a cop hater???
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No, I am not a cop hater and I usually defend cops here, but this is a situation where one cop and possibly his department (because they let his prior actions go unchecked) are screwed up. You keep bringing up the daughter. Well, as long as you bring it up and make excuses, I will reiterate that MAYBE THE ACCUSED MAN WAS NOT GUILTY OF MOLESTING THE COP'S DAUGHTER. REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM SHOOTING ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE. I am also pointing out that ALL murders since 1934 with LEGALLY OWNED MACHINEGUNS have been by off duty cops, not bashing cops, just pointing out the hypocricy and lunacy of the NFA law of 1934, gun control in general, and the idiocy of those that say 'only cops and military should have guns'.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:38:46 PM EDT
I grew up in that area, and can say with conviction, that the Seaside Heights PD has more than it's share of problems. It's sad when those who have sworn to uphold the law, end up killing those they are supposed to protect and defend.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 2:35:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: I guess his "pissed off" meter was pegged out.
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Have you been to Gil Martin's training?
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 3:18:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By themao:
Originally Posted By gus: Without a doubt, the punk should have been removed from the force for making the threats. However, he didn't "get away with it" as themao claims. A bad scene, yes. Typical New Jersey? Yes.
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Look, HE DID GET AWAY WITH IT! Gus, what would happen to me if I started making death threats to cops in my neighborhood? I would have had my ass carted to jail and probably ganged raped by every mofo in the cell! Yet, the state failed to protect a citizen from one of their own. I don't buy the SWAT commander's punch that "we didn't know what was going on".
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Yes, he did get away with that, and that is outrageous. However, in your first post you implied that he got away with the actual murder. That's what I was disagreeing with.
Anyway, we'll have to wait and see the real story behind all this. Something tells me there's more to this than one article, as with any tragedy. themao [chainsawkill]
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Yep. Especially an article in a big Philadelphia newspaper. Most of Pa. is fairly conservative, but not Philly, and like any other liberal hole its news agencies are on a socialist mission so trust them at your own risk! If the one neighbor had actually molested the guy's daughter, and had he only killed that one person, I would be on his side.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 4:50:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez:
Originally Posted By AZCOP: I guess his "pissed off" meter was pegged out.
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Have you been to Gil Martin's training?
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Who's Gil Martin ? [>:/] Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 6:09:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2002 6:09:59 AM EDT by Torf]
[size=4]"Did feud spark N.J. cop's rampage?"[/size=4] [size=2]"Some point to bad blood with neighbors to explain 5 killings. He's found dead in his car."[/size=2] Well, at least it wasn't the gun's fault.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:14:31 AM EDT
The guy who was accused of molesting the cop's daughter was deemed innocent way back in January 2001. So why did this guy wait over a year to go on a shooting spree? Becuase the rest of his life fell apart and he felt he had nothing to lose. Look at the facts: the guy's wife left him, his new fiance was killed in a car accident, plus he was filing bankruptcy.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:58:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:26:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: Who's Gil Martin ? [>:/] Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
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An AZ LE stress expert. Does training all over. The "fun meter pegged" thing was one of his favorite lines.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 11:32:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez:
Originally Posted By AZCOP: Who's Gil Martin ? [>:/] Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
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An AZ LE stress expert. Does training all over. The "fun meter pegged" thing was one of his favorite lines.
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I'll have to look for info on him. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 4:17:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP I'll have to look for info on him. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
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He came to our departent and did a Stress Management course that was great. I think he worked for Phoenix PD or So (or was it both) for several years, first as an officer, and then as a shrink after he got his Doctorate. His classes are very entertaining and are better than having some guy in a suit who doesn't know what its like tell you how to deal with things. He also ties a lot of his stuff in to ethics and decision making. Good training.
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