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Posted: 4/11/2002 8:30:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 7:29:53 PM EDT by Jarhead_22]
I'm interested in what conspiracy theories folks here put any credence in. Not ones you think are ridiculous or far-fetched, but ones that you view as definite, probable or at least possible. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the only man in Dealey Plaza with a rifle on 22 November 1963. Anyone else?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:11:16 AM EDT
Given your (our) Marine background, only a fool would believe that Oswald could hit a moving target with a head shot using a POS Carcano rifle at that distance. Not to mention the almost totally intact bullet that was found on the stretcher & deemed to be the "magic bullet" that hit both Kennedy & Connally. As I recall, Oswald shot Marksman in the Corps, not exactly glowing qualifications to make that shot(s).
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:20:18 AM EDT
Yup.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:20:51 AM EDT
I met a man once who served as an officer in the Army for 12 years. On the day Kennedy was shot he was in a Coca-cola board meeting with Richard Nixon. When Nixon heard, he got up and left town. Somehow, this man managed to get to the window where Oswald supposedly shot Kennedy. In his words: "12 years in the rifle corps told me that there was a tree in the way."
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:21:55 AM EDT
I think there are gub-ment agents trying to beam radio signals into my molars. I was going to go visit the dentist to have them removed. But, the voices in my head told me to stay home and clean my guns. I'm willing to discuss this further, but I have to go re-check my woodpile. Nikita Kruschev has been tampering with it.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:49:08 AM EDT
Some FACTS I believe: 1) Oswald was a patsy. 2) The Branch Davidians did NOT set themselves on fire 3) Randy Weaver's wife Sarah was NOT going to shoot anyone with that baby 4) The Second Amendment applies to INDIVIDUALS, not the National Guard (which was formed over 150 years LATER) Scott
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:55:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScottHewitt: Some FACTS I believe: 1) Oswald was a patsy. 2) The Branch Davidians did NOT set themselves on fire 3) Randy Weaver's wife Sarah was NOT going to shoot anyone with that baby 4) The Second Amendment applies to INDIVIDUALS, not the National Guard (which was formed over 150 years LATER) Scott
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1. Who knows? 2. Who knows? 3. Agreed. Unless it was an Assault Baby. 4. Yep. Hit the nail on the head.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:58:25 AM EDT
1. Half the people in Dallas 2. The ATF
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:59:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 10:00:57 AM EDT by LotBoy]
The Government is hiding the existence of aliens from us. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/alien2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:02:04 AM EDT
The Reagan Administration, including President Ronald Reagan, knowingly violated the Boland Amendment and sent weapons to the Contras, and it all happened with the President's direct knwledge, approval and blessing. And just so nobody gets the wrong idea, I don't have any problem with it, either. most appliances and cars could last for decades with routine maintenance, but are designed to wear out after a few years so that we will buy new ones.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:05:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:30:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 10:32:01 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
[b][u]The Conspiracy[/u]:[/b] There is a VERY deep connection/overlap in funding, communication, personel and mutual support between the Democratic Party, Communists, Arab Terrorists, Hollywood/Media/Entertainment, Street gangs, and radical left-wing militant groups like the New Black Panthers, NOW, QueerNation, NMBLA, Anarchists, PETA and Greenpeace. [b][u]The Evidence[/u]:[/b] Here is just [u]ONE[/u] tip of the massive iceberg crashing into the good ship America... (Democrats + Communists + Cop-killers + Radical militants + Hollywood + Street gangs) On May 2, 1973, Joanne Chesimard, a member of the [b]Black Liberation Army[/b], a militant branch of the Black Panthers, and two of her friends were stopped in their vehicle on the New Jersey Turnpike by state troopers James Harper and Werner Foerster. While being questioned, Chesimard and the driver opened fire with automatic pistols, striking Trooper Foerster twice in the chest and Trooper Harper in the shoulder. Then, grabbing Trooper Foerster's own weapon, an additional two bullets were fired execution style into the officer's head, killing him. Joanne Chesimard was caught, tried, found guilty, sentenced to life in prison, and lost again on appeal. In the mean time she changed her name to Assata Shakur. In 1979 she made an armed escape from prison and fled to Cuba. Ever since, [b]Fidel Castro[/b] has refused extradition requests from the US for her return. In 1998, Representative [b]Maxine Waters, Chair of the Congressional Black Caucus[/b], wrote a letter to Fidel Castro ([url=http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/089.html][b]"Dear President Castro..."[/b][/url]) urging him to REFUSE extradition of this convicted-cop-killer-fugative saying she is a victim of "political persecution" and compared her to Martin Luther King Jr. even though Amnesty International refuses to recognize her as a political prisoner. Assata Shakur is the aunt of [b]Tupac Shakur[/b], rap "star" murdered in a [b]gang-related hit[/b] in Las Vegas in 1996. In 1983 Tupac Shakur was accused of shooting two Atlanta police officers, but charges were later dropped.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:00:54 AM EDT
After any national event, Kennedy, Waco, Oklahoma, 911..........there are no less than 30 conspiracy theories that appear out of no where. After all the dust settles there remains at least 10 conspiracy theories that seem viable. All theories change depending on what country you are in and how the incident directly effects your country. Those who are really responsible love conspiracy theories.....the more ....the better. there is that old Science Quote.."Aacoms Razor" (I believe that's what its called) "All things being equal, the simplest answer is the correct one" Kennedy....he had so many enemies.. most likely the mob, but I think several agencies knew about it. Ruby Ridge...The US Marshals, ATF, FBI were cowboys and were proving a point. Waco....I don't believe they were intentionally killed...........but.........the ATF did raise its flag over the smoldering ashes just to show they conquered. Oklahoma.....I believe its domestic terrorist supported by our friends in the middle east. 911.......the murderers from Islam. DA
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:09:23 AM EDT
Occam's razor--- one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything....
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:13:38 AM EDT
Actually, I believe that Oswald was acting alone and did in fact cause all of the fatal wounds of President Kennedy! I suppose I should cite some reasons for my belief? Nope. I ain't gonna do it! I've been sworn to secrecy by a clandestine, top-secret,....uh-oh! Hmmm. I think I may have made a grave error here. Let me make a call, real quick. 'Hello' 'Yes, this is Hun, I have inadvertently mentioned the you-know-what about you-know-who' 'OK...OK...Ok...All of them?' 'OK' Hey folks, it's all right. I was just joking! I do need to apologize to each and every one of you personally, however. So, if you don't mind, please e-mail me your home addresses at once so I can begin apologizing immediately! If I can't make it by your house, just look for either a guy named Guido or Raoul to come by to personally deliver my apology! Eric The(Regrettable)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:16:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: 1) TWA 800 was not brought down by a loose wire in the fuel tank 2) There is a group of persons trying to set up a one world gov't 3) McDougal didn't die of natural causes, neither did Buddy 4) Chelsea Clinton isn't Bill's, He told the women he raped not to worry he was sterile from childhood mumps. 5) Ron Browns plane crash was no accident And most of the above
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3) McDougal didn't die of natural causes, neither did Buddy Can amend the list to add Vince Foster among many others.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:23:21 AM EDT
no, believe that oswald did not act alone, he was part of a conspiracy, but he WAS the only shooter. what bullets do at different angles in different media is never 100% predictable. i have done things with crap rifles that noone would have thought possible, sometimes you get lucky. he WAS put up to it, but jack ruby acted alone out of his own sense of ego. the circumstances of ruby being in that place at that time are too cooincidental to have been planned (timing, etc). if jack ruby had not shot oswald, we would have obtained more information, just a series of unfortunate incidents that have caused one certainty. WE WILL NEVER KNOW.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:23:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole: Given your (our) Marine background, only a fool would believe that Oswald could hit a moving target with a head shot using a POS Carcano rifle at that distance. Not to mention the almost totally intact bullet that was found on the stretcher & deemed to be the "magic bullet" that hit both Kennedy & Connally. As I recall, Oswald shot Marksman in the Corps, not exactly glowing qualifications to make that shot(s).
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He thrived under pressure? Seriously, I too think he was a pigeon. But we'll probably never know the "real" facts behind this. But aren't there lots of JFK shooting related documents that are due to be released in a few years?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:29:05 AM EDT
US federal income tax is worst conspiracy ever conceived by our government. The only way to kill this beast is to starve it. Stop paying income tax, it is a voluntary tax set up to pay for WWII. To much to explain here. Buy a book called Vultures In Eagle's Clothing, written buy Lynne Meredith
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:41:14 AM EDT
Daylight Savings Time (yaaawn)
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:44:48 AM EDT
LBJ offed JFK. LHO was after Connely because of the other than honorable discharge LHO was given after his trip to the Soviet Union. John Conneley was the Secretary of the Navy who handled the discharge. LBJ knew of the whole thing and also knew there would be a grand possibility of JFK getting waxed. LBJ was a crook. Not even his neighbors in Stonewall Texas voted for him because they knew all too well of his patently evil character flaws. Trust me folks, my roots are in Stonewall and to this day, they all destes LBJ but still love Ladybird.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:47:58 AM EDT
What about JFK Jr.? I hear he was going to make a run for US Senator in NY.....hmmm lets see who else was also going to run for Senator in NY and would NOT have won if JFK Jr. had run against her?? Something sounds a little fishy to say the least, besides, I think Bill's hit squad was getting a little bored since they hadn't had any new assignments for a while......[rocket] But then again what do I know.....[whacko]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:52:16 AM EDT
Kennedy died from the actions of three separate sniper teams. Probably Marine-trained. Oswald was a patsy. The six team members plus a ground commander rallied to effect their extraction. Oswald fell for the Texas theater as the rally point. Cuban Mafia were present in Dallas that weekend but were discouraged from action after being discovered at Jack Ruby's club the night before the shooting.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:55:55 AM EDT
Ya see what I mean about people in Texas knowing what happened....Arock ya mean the club called Ruby Tuesday's....at Swiss and Good Latimer.... where I go almost every sunday......now called the Lizard Lounge......
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:13:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: I'm interested in what conspiracy theories folks here put any credence in. Not ones you think are ridiculous or far-fetched, but ones that you view as definite, probable or at least possible. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the only man in Dealey Plaza with a rifle on 23 November 1963. Anyone else?
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The Secret Service also had rifles. See [url]http://www.parmaq.com/truecrime/MortalError.htm[/url] to see a summary of the book Mortal Error by Bomar Menninger. Thanks to Aviator for pointing out this theory a few months ago. The really short version is that Oswald was the only shooter and he only fired two rounds. The first round missed, hitting the ground behind/beside the limo. The second round hit Kennedy in the upper torso and continued through to hit the governor. The wound from the second round displaced a couple of vertebrae and would have been fatal anyway. At this point one of the agents in the trail car attempted to jump up and return fire with an AR15. Due to an unexpected movement of the vehicle or the instability of trying to stand on a seat cushion the agent lost his balance and AD'd, striking Kennedy in the back of the head. I have read the book twice and I am impressed by the quality and the thoroughness of the analysis presented.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:28:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:32:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:34:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: 1) TWA 800 was not brought down by a loose wire in the fuel tank
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Facts, please. Not so and so said they say this or that. And why?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:38:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 1:40:47 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: At this point one of the agents in the trail car attempted to jump up and return fire with an AR15
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I didn't realize that any government agency was using the AR15 in 1963. I don't believe they were, which makes me question the validity of this claim. I don't believe that Oswald acted alone and I don't believe that an AD from a Secret Service agent's gun was involve either.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:57:18 PM EDT
thedave- I've got the blood pressure down. Seriously, why do you think there was a shooter on the knoll? Because a bunch of housewives who had NEVER heard any gunfire before pinpointed the location while standing in an aritficial canyon based on sound? Ever try to do this near mountains? Is it because these same "wits" claim they saw "smoke?" WTF? Smoke? What were they sniping with, a hawken muzzleloader? There wouldn't be any smoke. I saw one lady, present day, SWEARING she saw a man with a rifle on the knoll. Cut to a '63 interview, same lady, she didn't know ANYTHING, said she dove for cover and had no idea what happenned or where the shots came from. I saw an Impact Analysis, inc computer model based on the Zap film and the known wounds. They are a well known accident reconstruciotn firm, also do forensic recreations for criminal trial. They reverse figured where the bullets MUST have come from the hit where they hit on the film, guess what, a circle DIRECTLY around O's 6th floor window. How about the 5th floor witness who heard not only the shots directly above him, he heard the action being worked on the rifle. Magic bullet? Bullshine. First, look at an overhead view of the Lincoln, C's seat was about a fot narrower than K's was. You can also see this from front views of the motorcade. Result, C's shoulder was in line with K's neck. A large, heavy TMJ bullet went in the back of K's neck and came out through the necktie knot (I've seen the tie). It went into C's shoulder, out the front, STILL travelling down, through C's hand which was over his thigh, and on into his thigh. It didn't HIT anything but flesh, hence it wasn't deformed TOO MUCH. But it was not pristine. To see Costner with that pointer exaggeratin and showing the bullet reverse directions made me want to throw up. That bullet took the closest thing to a straight line I've ever seen.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:59:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 2:06:06 PM EDT by Arock]
Originally Posted By hound: Ya see what I mean about people in Texas knowing what happened....Arock ya mean the club called Ruby Tuesday's....at Swiss and Good Latimer.... where I go almost every sunday......now called the Lizard Lounge......
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The Carousel Club that was located a couple blocks from the Statler Hilton on Commerce. Ruby's places were local Mafia hangouts. Ruby may have been a wannabe. Any event the Cubans were recognized by other players at the club.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:13:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:20:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:23:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: Daylight Savings Time (yaaawn)
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Daylight savings is a massive conspiracy by the governing oligarchy to assure themselves that the marjority of Americans are still lemmings. Same with those low volume toilets.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:23:24 PM EDT
I think, and always have, even before you made the connection... Turkey baster.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:24:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: At this point one of the agents in the trail car attempted to jump up and return fire with an AR15
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I didn't realize that any government agency was using the AR15 in 1963. I don't believe they were, which makes me question the validity of this claim. I don't believe that Oswald acted alone and I don't believe that an AD from a Secret Service agent's gun was involve either.
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The dustjacket of Mortal Error has a picture of the limo and chase car rushing to the hospital. The AR is being held by the agent and is in clear view.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 2:25:36 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:30:56 PM EDT
Not willingly, if you know what I mean. Not that there's anything WRONG with that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:51:51 PM EDT
Im surprised that no ones mentioned false lunar landings yet [:D] I've seen a UFO, no...really, i have seen one and i was'nt drunk or alone. lib _____________________________________ "the problem is trying to convince crazy people that im not crazy"
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:13:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 3:22:40 PM EDT by Arock]
I posted this on the Re-enactment thread but realized it probably fit here better: "I have sat in the same room with active duty precision riflemen and watched "Diary of an Assassination". That video was made locally in the Dallas area about three years ago from the original Zapruder film. The Zapruder family got possession of their film from the Feds for a short time before is was "sold" to a "caretaker agency" for around $17.5 million. During the time the Zapruders had possession, the film was taken by the Zapruder family to a local digital imaging company for analysis and preservation. The company took each frame, digitized it and did some digital processing that's described in detail in the video. They also used the WHOLE image of each frame which is larger than the images you've seen on TV. The television images are cropped on all four sides to get a better TV image. The original, larger images give detail that's not present on the TV images. Anyway the video is about 35 minutes long with all the detail of how the images were processed. When the processed images are run you'd be amazed at the details you've never seen on TV simply because TV images are poor quality to begin with and cropped of significant detail. I was a simple listener in the room. The professionals were the ones talking. After viewing the video about four times all the way through with LOTS of rewinds, slo-mo and stop frames, they all agreed from the way Kennedy's body moved in reaction to the impacts and the direction the tissue and fluids reacted to the impacts, it was obvious to them multiple shooters were involved. Things like Kennedy's wearing a back support brace and the like were discussed. Anyway the consensus was that there were three fire teams involved. Considering the level of expertise available at that time probably Marine-trained. There had to be a ground commander involved as well to coordinate. When I say Oswald was a patsy I mean he was setup to be apprehended. Oswald was a trained marksman, had ties to the Soviets, Cubans and the CIA. He was a player but he was the fall-guy. I don't claim to have any new or brilliant information that hasn't been covered years ago. The former Marina Oswald lives a few miles from me, her daughter went to school in our small town and one of the LE's who was at Oswald's exhumation was over at our house yesterday. But I still don't know what really happened." **Oh yeah, and thirty-six years ago I was sitting in my barber's chair when three Texas DPS cars pulled up to the courthouse in Rockwall, Texas. Several men and one woman got out and went in the courthouse. Found out a few days later that was Marina Oswald being escorted to be married there that day.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:15:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:16:30 PM EDT
The Federal Reserve was really an institution set up by a small group of bankers in order to control the US monetary supply.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:19:30 PM EDT
I believe that these theories are easily concocted and nearly impossible to prove. Does anybody remember when Bush choked on that pretzel? What if he had actually died? An official report would be produced concluding that "the President choked on a pretzel". The conspiracy theories would flow like water over Niagra Falls.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:25:28 PM EDT
Super Chicken: No offense, but have you watched the men who killed K with anything like a critical eye? Everything is absolute, not possible, but fact. One time they claimed they had blown up and enhanced a photo, it was this huge 11x16 or something, clearly showing a uniformed policeman, with a badge and police hat in perfect focus. They showed it to some emotionally disturbed guy who exclaimed "That's what I saw!" Only then did they show where they got the origional, it was a less than 1 square inch, blurry black and white print (NOT a negative) portion of a photo. Before they "enhanced" it, I couldn't even tell if it was a person, let alone a man or woman. I don't buy such "interpretation." ANother time, they had some guy doing something to the autopsy photos, claiming through coloring large portions of K's skull that it was a manmade portion to cover the real wound. No explanation of how he could tell this from a blackand white photo, nothing but his conclusion, reproted as gospel. Speculation about what his head would do is not "proof," it is only a theory, and I've heard that explained both ways, both times by people who should know better than I.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:32:57 PM EDT
Conpiracies eh? I think Sadam is scratching his OPEC neighbors backs so they will raise a little hell when He gets invaded. By itself, cutting off the oil is a pointless gesture with a little propaganda value. In reality, someone is going to sell the oil, and reap the profits, and that somebody will probably express their gratitude at just the wrong time in our invasion. It would be interesting to see who geared up their production capacity just before Sadam made his announcement. I think the environmental movement is used by foreign agitators to weaken our nation's independence and slow down oil production and commercial activity. It is consistant with the reports of defectors who describe their activities here and in japan and I'm sure other countries. I think that conspiracies are overrated and the nature of collusion among those seeking improper advantage is too boring to hold the attention of most people. Now if you want to talk co-operative self-interest among those who should have the public's interest at heart, there's a lot of meat to sink your teeth into, if you can keep yourself awake. Termites chew slowly and for a long time, but the barn (or the WTC) falls suddenly.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:37:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By muzlblast: The Federal Reserve was really an institution set up by a small group of bankers in order to control the US monetary supply.
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...not to mention bankrolling the Nazi's during WW2. The FR should be brought back under US only control, but the Banking elite will just find some other way to manipulate it. Fiated lib
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 3:46:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Libertoon:
Originally Posted By muzlblast: The Federal Reserve was really an institution set up by a small group of bankers in order to control the US monetary supply.
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...not to mention bankrolling the Nazi's during WW2. The FR should be brought back under US only control, but the Banking elite will just find some other way to manipulate it. Fiated lib
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A cousin of mine is a Vice-President of the Federal Reserve. Prior to serving with the FR, he retired a Rear Admiral in the US Navy. He had a lot of responsibility for his rank. One Sunday morning he found himself in command of every man, ship, submarine and aircraft in the US Navy's Pacific theater. That kind of responsibility. If you think he's the kind of guy who'd let the USA down you have another thing coming.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:02:01 PM EDT
Ever notice how the space shuttle always goes up when the SHTF somewhere! Hmmmmm..... Opps, I have to readjust my tinfoil socks and underwear!
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:20:37 PM EDT
Regarding the JFK murder, all interested (hell, everyone, period) should read [i]High Treason[/i]. It's written by the most qualified people on the subject, and it does, as advertised, reveal what really happened on Nov. 22. That book is an eye-opener. Regarding other conspiracy theories, I'll open this can o'worms: THE BILDERBERGERS AND TRILATERAL COMMISION CONTROL THE WORLD. [;)]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:28:33 PM EDT
DJ "Jazzy" Bump is our resident expert. He may be along shortly...
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 4:45:00 PM EDT
My only problem w/ the whole moon landing thing is this: Kennedy made his moon mission statement in what - '60? We got to the moon in '68 I think, right? Well, if we got to the moon in 8 freaking years, how come in 42 we can barely launch a shuttle? We should be mining asteroids & have a Mars base by now based on that progression. Also, the Viking landers got to MArs in what -'72 or '77? 20+ yrs later our little, less complex mission, mars probes fail routinely - WTF?
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