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Posted: 4/11/2002 7:43:29 AM EDT
I've been reading this site for a year and love it, I just became a member yesterday. You guys and ladies are really knowledgable and interesting, plus I get a ton of info that I can't get anywhere else.I've got a ton of respect for veterans of the service,and active members also. Please excuse me if this topic has come up before but I don't remeber seeing it. Can someone give me the story on Mohammed Ali and how he avoided service back in the day? All I see in the media is how much of a "hero" he is and it sickens me to have his name in the same sentence as "hero", but I don't know the story on his draft dodging or whatever he did, please fill me in.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:57:26 AM EDT
Welcome to the board newman... NEWMANNNN.... "gritting teeth like Jerry Seinfeld" [;)] And Lord Gaveth to us the power of the Internet to fulfill all our vast desires of unknown knowledge
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:01:57 AM EDT
He was a "Conscientious objector" in technical terms. Mike
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:35:49 AM EDT
People seem to have forgotten what a horse's ass he was.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:07:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 9:07:37 AM EDT by BobCole]
Originally Posted By ChrisS: People seem to have forgotten what a horse's ass he was.
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Not at all. What Ali did was focus the public on how screwed up the Viet Nam war was & hopefully hastened our withdrawal & saved some more American lives. That cesspool of a country wasn't worth a single American military life. Unfortunately the politicians thought otherwise.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:16:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisS: People seem to have forgotten what a horse's ass he was.
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He was. I remember being the only kid in my grade school who rooted for Frazier. I was really pissed when the press headlined the fight with "Loser, and still champion...". They got the loser part right.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:47:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:01:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole: [Not at all. What Ali did was focus the public on how screwed up the Viet Nam war was & hopefully hastened our withdrawal & saved some more American lives. That cesspool of a country wasn't worth a single American military life. Unfortunately the politicians thought otherwise.
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Actually I was referring to the fact that he was an arrogant, loud mouthed jerk. In fact he still is. He gets sick and all of a sudden he's some kind of hero. The draft dodging is just a "bonus".
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:02:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: He may have avoided military service, but at least he didn't flee to Canada - he stayed in the U.S., got convicted, and did his time. That's what makes him better than the ones who just ran to Canada - he had the courage of his convictions and faced the music.
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Can't argue with that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:13:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 10:47:49 AM EDT
As I recall, the conviction was appealed and eventually overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:20:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:45:46 AM EDT
"Hey, Man, it's like this...I'll beat the shit outta them, I'll pound them with my hands until they're unconscious, but I won't kill 'em. No way. It's against my religion."
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 12:34:38 PM EDT
Harlem, UCLA, Lakers.....oops that was Lou Alsinder (sp) AKA kareem Abdul Gebar (sp). How many more were there?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:41:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:12:26 PM EDT
Hav`nt heard anyone call him a "hero"..until today.....what he was.....was a highly controversial "personality"....in a time where anyone born after 1960 probably could not quite understand......yes..he did avoid military commitment....but in the grand scheme of things....this was not a terrible subject..as uncle.....even at the hight of the war....was so damn fussy.....that one body could not have made a difference in any way, shape or form.....and the fact is....the man may have been entirely sincere in his beliefs.....which certainly gave him that right...ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT......some cosidered him a coward....but how to substantiate that...when you consider some of the opponents he faced....and defeated...in hand to hand combat........call him a hero?.....I think not......call him one of the finest athletes of our time?.....only a fool would not....the man was a boaster....but backed up just about every thing he said.....controversy...yes...personally..I have very much respect for the man....keep in mind...he was also a showman....a damn good one.......[:\]
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:17:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 5:20:36 PM EDT by Arock]
He was a big physical specimen. But look who beat him. And he would never get into the ring with Teofilo Stevenson. Who would have pounded his sorry ass into the canvas for good. **Edited to add he was more the creation and celebrity vehicle of Ho-ward Co-sell than anything Clay did for himself.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:39:20 PM EDT
Got to go with BlackandGreen, he was a helluva an athlete and also was one of the first African American athletes to use his fame to express his political/ideological opinions. Whether you agreed with him or not, middle America was exposed to a whole new part of the country's "fabric".
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 5:54:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:27:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole: Not at all. What Ali did was focus the public on how screwed up the Viet Nam war was & hopefully hastened our withdrawal & saved some more American lives. That cesspool of a country wasn't worth a single American military life. Unfortunately the politicians thought otherwise.
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Actually, he and people like Hanoi Jane extended the war. They interviewed several high ranking NVA officials that indicated that they were ready to give it up in 1967, but seeing people like Ali and Fonda doing what they were doing, it gave them the fortitude to stick it out because they believed that these people would influence the American public to turn against the war and if they could stick it out, they could win. So, while I respect the fact that he faced the music, he and people like Fonda did us a great disservice and actually cost more American lives. I do find it ridiculous, especially now, that a Muslim can claim to be a conscientious objector for religious reasons.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:08:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisS:Actually I was referring to the fact that he was an arrogant, loud mouthed jerk. In fact he still is. He gets sick and all of a sudden he's some kind of hero.The draft dodging is just a "bonus".
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Arrogant? Maybe, he was the best boxer who ever stepped into the ring. I'd say until he got too old no one could hardly even touch him. A jerk? He promoted himself by being the one we loved to hate. Unlike others, he never beat a woman, never raped a woman, never shot another person. Other than the military service, he led an exemplary life. Not too many pro athletes can make that claim. Nor too many of us in here. >gg<
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 11:14:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:Actually, he and people like Hanoi Jane extended the war. They interviewed several high ranking NVA officials that indicated that they were ready to give it up in 1967, but seeing people like Ali and Fonda doing what they were doing, it gave them the fortitude to stick it out because they believed that these people would influence the American public to turn against the war and if they could stick it out, they could win.
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While they may have indeed said those things in interviews I don't believe it for one nanosecond. The Viet Nammese (sp?) out-lasted & defeated the French. Yes, I know that's like defeating the Boy Scouts, but still. They probably would've beat the Japanese had they arms enough to do so. I still think the Viet Nam war was a terrible blight on Kennedy's record & I hope every family who lost a KIA or POW there spits on his grave at Arlington. That country wasn't worth a convicted murderer's life, IMO.
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