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Posted: 4/9/2002 11:42:58 PM EDT
Israel conducts an invasion of foreign land. Its soldiers get killed in an ambush in Jenin. Then it starts bulldozing a refugee camp in revenge. When Bush admin. officials bring up the fact that if they had pulled out when we asked them to those 13 soldiers would be alive, they just cover their ears & keep on. Hours later a bus bomb kills 10. WTF do the Israelis expect. They will NEVER win this, just as the Palestinians will never be rid of the Israelis. All the suicide bombing morons on Earth won't erase Israel & all the half-assed invasions of the West Bank won't stop the suicide bombers. It's a cycle that these cretins are too stupid to comprehend. These morons need to learn to live together & DO NOT deserve our sympathy. P.S. Mr. Sharon, some of us do remember what you like do to women & children in refugee camps. The names Sabra & Shatila ring a bell?
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 11:55:45 PM EDT
The United States conducts an invasion of a foreign land (Afghanistan). When the Taliban bring up the fact that our lost soldiers would be alive had we pulled out when the Taliban begged us too. We just covered our ears and eyes & kept on. Hours later we lose more soldiers and allies. WTF do we stupid Americans expect. We will NEVER win this, just as the Taliban will never be rid of the Americans. All the suicide plane flying morons on Earth won't erase the United States of America & all the half-assed cruise missle attacks on empty camps won't stop the suicide bombers and hijackers. It's a cycle some cretins are too stupid to comprehend. We morons need to learn to live together with murdering savage terrorist scum & we do not deserve our sympathy. I hope you're intelligent enough to get the point in all that. The Isrealis are trying to stop the terror. They have my blessing. I don't care who owned the land a century ago. If Mexicans and Native Americans started strapping on explosives and targeting civilians for their cause, "reservations" would be another word for "zoo", and we wouldn't need NAFTA to get cheap labor because we'd own Mexico.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 12:13:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2002 12:21:01 AM EDT by jobux]
The whole point of my post was that despite your "blessing," which the Israelis must hold in as much regard as they do the opinion of President Bush ;) they will never win. Much like their debacle in South Lebanon, ours in 'Nam, the Sri Lankans v. Tamils, etc. THEY WILL NEVER END IT. Likewise, the Palestinians can blow up as many pizzerias as they want but the Israelis won't be leaving. They need to come to a comprehensive peace agreement. If you want my honest opinion, I think yes, Arafat is ultimately responsible. Not for any simplistic reason such as "he's a muslim fanatic/terrorist/dirtbag" but b/c he is stupid. At Camp David he rejected the best peace deal his people could ever get. This started the violence anew. The violence got Sharon elected. Sharon invaded the West Bank. The rest is "current events." "I hope your intelligent enough to understand that." Now, as to your asininely crude comparison/analogy of the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict to our fight vs. the Taliban; your post is so historically, militarily, geographically, & geopolitically erroneous that I won't even waste my time dissecting it. Seriously, the two situations are so disparate that they cannot even begin to be compared. Please...
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 12:30:51 AM EDT
The only difference between the current mess and the mess in the U.S. in the 1960's is that Palestinians have been oppressed much worse and more systematically than American blacks were, and thus are going much farther in retaliation. Israeli Jews treat everyone else like shit, and they're paying the price for it. BTW, Stealth, it wasn't "a century ago", it was 54 years. Well within the lifespan of many people still alive, to go see the homes they used to live in having been stolen and occupied by their oppressors.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 12:46:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2002 12:59:07 AM EDT by Stealth]
Originally Posted By jobux: If you want my honest opinion, I think yes, Arafat is ultimately responsible. Not for any simplistic reason such as "he's a muslim fanatic/terrorist/dirtbag" but b/c he is stupid.
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You just admitted it. Now run with with your "honest" opinion. Israel is attacking a terrorist threat. The same way the United States is attacking a terrorist threat. Cry all you want for those who would strap bombs on and walk into malls, but you will still be on the wrong side. Unless of course you support those who strap on explosives and walk into malls. Do you think the terrorist who flew into the World Trade Center buildings were justified? Do you "understand" their position? Targeting civilians is NOT moral, even in war. I will side with those that oppose these actions.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 12:58:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: The only difference between the current mess and the mess in the U.S. in the 1960's is that Palestinians have been oppressed much worse and more systematically than American blacks were, and thus are going much farther in retaliation. BTW, Stealth, it wasn't "a century ago", it was 54 years. Well within the lifespan of many people still alive, to go see the homes they used to live in having been stolen and occupied by their oppressors.
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Hmmmm..... so you're saying the Jews enslaved the Palastinians and made them harvest produce? No, you're saying the Jews oppressed them even more. I don't see it. But if so, then maybe retaliation is expected. I'm saying that if they attack civilians to induce "terror" (thus "terrorism"), as retribution, then they will be and should be dealt with like murdering scum. 54 years.... Still fresh is some's hearts. Still, strap on explosives and walk into a mall proclaiming your side of the story and I will back the other side. It's pretty simple. Israelis may kill some civilians, as Americans kill some civilians, but I don't believe they (or we) target them.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 1:20:43 AM EDT
So then let's see, b/c SOME nutbag Palestinians like to blow up Isrealis in pizzerias, let's punish ALL the Palestinian populace by: bulldozing their homes, roads, & businesses. Cutting off utilities. Closing hospitals. Slapping on a curfew in their cities to prevent them from leaving their homes to work. Destroying their ports & airport. Stripsearching them - women & kids too. Detaining them at random & sending them for interrogation & internment in a desert prison camp in the Negev. That's not targeting civilians? If this is how they target the bombers then my formerly high opinion of the Israeli military is gone B/C THESE TACTICS AREN'T WORKING! Two weeks of this & bombers are still striking the very HEART of Israel. Do the families of the 10 innocents killed on that bus this morning think it's working? This is a guerilla war now & you can't win it by punishing civilians. Stealth, all the Israelis are doing now is pushing people who weren't involved before into the ranks of the extremists.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 1:39:19 AM EDT
[ ""So then let's see, b/c SOME nutbag Palestinians like to blow up Isrealis in pizzerias, let's punish ALL the Palestinian populace by: bulldozing their homes, roads, & businesses. Cutting off utilities. Closing hospitals. Slapping on a curfew in their cities to prevent them from leaving their homes to work. Destroying their ports & airport. Stripsearching them - women & kids too. Detaining them at random & sending them for interrogation & internment in a desert prison camp in the Negev. That's not targeting civilians? " Of course we both know the mission of the Israeli army is to destroy the terrorist infrastructure and not target those who just "sit around and watch". The very nature of the beast leads it into the general populous. Ask those that remain in Afghanistan. The headline I just read ... "16 bomb making locations were discovered". I'll give you the link if you like, but it's the headline on MSN right now. This tells me that YES, the tactics are working. Does all this breed more terrorists as you suggest? Of course it does. But fewer, and fewer each time they go in. 54 years ago a mistake may or may not have been made. Now we are living with the consequences. Now is the time we need to worry about. Israelis populous is getting attacked, and an all out military incursion seems to me the best way to eradicate the terrorist problem.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:24:15 AM EDT
jobux wrote:
Stealth, all the Israelis are doing now is pushing people who weren't involved before into the ranks of the extremists.
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Agreed. That's why Israel should be killing each and every one of them that won't vacate to Jordan, Syria, SA, ect.. But that wouldn't be PC. Gotta be PC. Tate
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:05:53 AM EDT
I would weigh in here now, but everyone knows what my views are anyway! So I'll save it for another day. So when did we offer Osama Bin Laden 'land for peace'? Ooops, I slipped. Sorry. Eric The(Penitent)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:35:14 AM EDT
Neither Idiotic Side Deserves U.S. Sympathy
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I have a problem with that: Right after 9/11, how many nations in the world, friends and allies, came out to say that an attack on America is an attack on their Liberty and Freedom?.....Israel was among the first to come out on our side while the Palestinians were dancing with joy. If you let terrorism to dictate your action and policy then you are in deep shit. It will never cease until you become their slave. This is war on terrorism, and we can't let them win. I say support Israel and crush the terrorists!
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 7:00:32 AM EDT
Neither Israel nor the occupied Palestinian Territories are of any strategic value to the United States of America. I care only about the United States of America and some few real allies such as Canada and Great Britain. Our policies in the middle east have cost the U.S. dearly and should the Muslim countries (and you can bet your last buck countries such as Venezuela will quickly follow) restrict the oil supply even by 10% the industrialized countries of the world head directly into a recession that numbs the mind.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 9:10:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I care only about the United States of America and some few real allies such as Canada and Great Britain.
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i'd venture to say that there's no such thing as a real ally cuz as soon as the shit hits the fan, said "ally" is going to do what it has to do to save its own skin. if that means pissing on the U.S. so be it. the thing that nobody's mentioned, but is the most important point in this whole "debate" is that alliances are weak and fragile and the smallest thing can break them. there's no guarantee than any of our allies will stand by our side when/if we ever call on them. in fact, i seem to remember a few of our so-called allies telling us that we need to refrain from going after the terrorists who perpetrated the Sept. 11 attacks. why? so we didn't rock the boat and the waves wouldn't go crashing into their part of the world, that's why. sounds like some of you want alliances with zero risk and full benefits. it don't work that way, fellas.
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