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Posted: 4/8/2002 4:26:18 PM EDT
I'm a member of the Pres. Church-USA and have had it with the liberal Bovinian excrement that they promote. U. Meth. & Episcopal seem just as bad. 9-11 was the turning point for me. These Little Gods with Little Brains, the leadership and paid staff of the Church, go and publically equate 9-11 to be no more than an excuse for the U>S> to wage war and that the U.S. was to blame. Even worse, they equated 9-11 as being no more of a terrorist act than the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think they're still trying to pass high school American History and haven't heard or Pearl Harbor. We pay these guys??????? www.ird-renew.org will give you a quick look. It's one thing to endure the waste of time, effort, resources, and money that goes into their tiptoe thru the pulpit homosexual plan. The contributions to the WCC and NCC and their United Nations connections and Marxist pet projects would do one hell of a lot more helping real church and mission work. The anti-gun crap, I won't even start. There's more but this makes the point. They want war. They got war. I'm on the warpath.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:08:26 PM EDT
I have no idea why anyone would even want to belong to a liberal church! These folks are strong on civil rights. They are strong on women's rights. They strongly believe in affirmative action. They are strong in support of a woman's right to have an abortion. They are in strong opposition to any US war. They are in strong support of any Third World country's war. They are strong on gay rights. They are strong on internationalism. They are strong on communitarianism. They are strong in believing that the Bible is a nice, quaint little book, that at one time, in the distant past, may have actually meant something. But no more. Just about the only subject that they are [u]not[/u] strong on is...[b]Jesus[/b]. You know, the reason their stupid church was founded in the first place! Eric The(ILikeMyReligionJustLikeMyPolitics-StrongAndToTheRight)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:18:26 PM EDT
Try the Lutheran Church--Wisconsin Synod. www.wels.net The bible and God's word, no PC nonsense.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:22:40 PM EDT
Where was this outrage on the molestation thread? ...... Figures, jesus freaks a;ways figure a way to justify something if it's in gods name. The holy trinity- 3 gods for the price of one, but still no bargain.....
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:25:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 5:28:16 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
...Or Missouri Synod. Sorry Happyshooter. Same Luther. FOAD Ghettobl ass ter.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:26:07 PM EDT
Post from Ghettoblaster -
Where was this outrage on the molestation thread? ......
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[u]You[/u] are not outraged by molestation? Figures! Always trying to justify something if it feels good and is prohibited in the Free World! Eric The(TitForTat!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:28:19 PM EDT
alright
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:32:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from Ghettoblaster -
Where was this outrage on the molestation thread? ......
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[u]You[/u] are not outraged by molestation? Figures! Always trying to justify something if it feels good and is prohibited in the Free World! Eric The(TitForTat!)Hun[>]:)]
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yes I was out raged by that thread and you know it. what exactly got halfcocked so worked up?
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:33:00 PM EDT
Look on the bright side, according to prophesy the churches will not be protected when America Burns because they are no longer for God and are no longer doing God’s work. The fact is that we do not need the church, we just need to have a personal relationship with God. Belonging to and going to Church is just to make us feel good.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:57:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ghettoblaster: Where was this outrage on the molestation thread? ...... Figures, jesus freaks a;ways figure a way to justify something if it's in gods name. The holy trinity- 3 gods for the price of one, but still no bargain.....
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Oh I don't know. Maybe I'm just one of those "Jesus freaks". ...and I think that the Church is just made up of people, created in Gods likeness but that is is pretty much where things start to go to hell. ...and I don't think that the Holy Trinity should be made fun of. If I misstook your intentions I'm sorry but I still don't see the humor.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 6:26:09 PM EDT
Halfcocked, my remark was not directed towards anyone in particular. I was basically being a smart ass. But ther e was a point to it.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:19:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:28:05 PM EDT
You should try to locate either an Orthodox Presbyterian or PCA church. Failing that, Southern Baptist is a good place to start. Any church that does not preach the Gospel is a synagogue of Satan.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:47:26 PM EDT
The Episcopal Church is one of the worst (and very political). They have changed so much over the years and lost a great many people that I know. Their focus today is every left wing, liberation theology, open borders, anti-gun, economic justice idea you can think of (and not the souls of their flock). You might as well just take a left at the Democratic party and join the SLP (Socialist Labor Party). They raise money off of the 9-11 tragedy (you know they gave out free drinks to some rescue workers... whooo!) and spend it on foreigners. It's crazy.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:57:06 PM EDT
I was the same way. I was a Methodist all my life until the minister told my kids that Satan doesn't really exist. More of a concept of evil. That was it for me. I think you would really like an Evangelical Free Church..
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 9:55:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 9:57:54 PM EDT by shooter69]
From powderburner's link ([url]www.ird-renew.org[/url]):
World Council of Churches Leaders Oppose War on Terrorism Mark Tooley March 8, 2002 At the annual meeting of the U.S. Committee of the World Council of Churches (WCC), several speakers condemned the U.S. war against terrorism as morally unacceptable, especially in light of the WCC’s current “Decade to Overcome Violence.” About 200 WCC activists were gathered in Boston’s Old South Church for the occasion. The WCC is the largest global ecumenical organization, with over 300 member denominations, most of them Protestant. Over 30 denominations in the United States belong to the Geneva-based WCC. Long controversial for its left-wing political stances, the WCC has in recent years suffered from financial difficulties. These are in part due to the severe membership decline among the mostly mainline Protestant U.S. and European denominations that form the council’s financial backbone. And the members who remain in those denominations have not been enchanted with the WCC’s habitual denunciations of the democratic capitalist West. Leading the condemnation of the U.S. war against terrorism was WCC General Secretary Konrad Raiser. He charged that the U.S. war was being waged “outside the rule of law.” He strongly implied that U.S. military actions were little different in moral terms from the terrorism of September 11 that ignited the conflict. “This war, which is presented as a struggle for the defense of freedom and thus for a just cause, nevertheless follows the logic of war and has already claimed untold numbers of new victims,” Raiser declared. Raiser lamented that the U.S. war has created a “new international security ideology based on the geopolitical and economic interests of the United States.” He further alleged that the U.S. war has “unlimited scope” and is leading to the “harsh suppression” of “people’s struggles for social justice” because these struggles are seen as “potential manifestations of terrorism.” In a clear swipe at America in the wake of September 11, Raiser said we have seen the “brutal face of the spirit, logic, and practice of violence and have experienced its demonic character which captivates even the mind and soul of the victims.” He further complained that the “language of religion and patriotism” has been used to legitimize a violent response to acts of violence. With the U.S. apparently still in mind, Raiser warned of a “will to dominate and to exercise power over instead of with others.” He complained of the “cultivation of enemy images,” the “deliberate misinformation,” and the “deliberate disregard for the basic needs of the poor, the hungry, the excluded, and afflicted.”
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Link Posted: 4/8/2002 9:56:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 9:59:08 PM EDT by shooter69]
Raiser observed that September 11 created an experience of vulnerability for Americans to which they were not accustomed. Raiser had hoped that this would “create a new sense of solidarity in pain with those who had been exposed to the structural violence of a global economic system which serves the interests of a minority of rich people and countries…” He regretted that the mobilization of support for the war against terrorism had neutralized any such solidarity that may have developed. Briefly alluding to the Islamic faith of the September 11 terrorists, Raiser acknowledged that some believe the current war is a “clash of civilizations” between Islam and Christianity. He likened Muslim groups who have condemned the September 11 attacks to church groups who have disassociated themselves from the U.S. war against terrorism. Reiterating Raiser’s opposition to the U.S. war against terrorism, liberation theologian Elsa Tamez of Costa Rica also equated U.S. actions with those of the September 11 terrorists. “The discourse of Osama bin Laden transmitted by television showed…the United States was experiencing something that for many years the Muslims have suffered because of the United States,” Tamez claimed in a Bible study lecture. “With this it also became clear that the attack of September 11 was a revenge, the same as Bush’s response to that attack.” Tamez pursued the line of moral equivalence: “The terrorists will never admit that they had as an objective to kill innocent victims. At the same time, Bush will never affirm that his objective is to kill the Afghan people. …No one proposes attacking innocent victims, but all do it without wanting to.” According to Tamez, the original name for the U.S. war against terrorism, which was “infinite justice,” is really closer to “infinite vengeance.” She linked this call for unending vengeance to the Old Testament “myth” regarding Cain and his son Lamech, who were promised that their assailants would be killed seven times over. Besides the U.S. war against terrorism, the WCC meeting also addressed the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. A panel of four WCC experts talked about Israel’s transgressions against the Palestinians and demanded Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders. There was no attempt at even-handed treatment of the two parties. “We cannot any more use compromising language,” said Salypy Eskidjian of the WCC International Affairs team. “It’s time to be bold.” She compared Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians to apartheid in South Africa. Bernice Powell-Jackson of the United Church of Christ agreed. “Over and over we saw the shells from U.S. bombs,” she complained of her recent visit to Palestinian territories. “The time for words has passed.” She repeated what she heard from Palestinian spokesmen, which is that all the violence is due to Israel’s occupation. “Don’t be sidelined into other topics,” she insisted. Thus there was little mention of Palestinian suicide bombings directed against Israeli civilians. The criticism of Israel was not received in silence by everyone in the audience. “I am overwhelmed by the lack of balance in the presentation,” said Robert Leikind of the Anti-Defamation League of Boston. “There was a complete indifference, even a lack of acknowledgment, that there are more dimensions to this situation. You don’t see Palestinians making a commensurate commitment to the peace process.
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Link Posted: 4/8/2002 9:57:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 9:59:32 PM EDT by shooter69]
Leikind said the WCC was being “more partisan than peacemakers.” “Yes, we are taking sides,” responded Eskidjian. “We are taking sides with justice.” In concluding remarks before the WCC gathering, Janice Love, a United Methodist lay woman who teaches at the University of South Carolina, pointed out that the WCC is not altogether consistently pacifist. “Those who live under oppressive governments have a right to resist,” Love said. Specifically she was recalling the WCC’s decades-long funding of guerrilla organizations that were fighting to overthrow white minority governments in southern Africa. “Liberation movements turned to violent warfare to achieve majority rule,” Love recalled. “Clearly the WCC was taking sides in the conflict.” The WCC channeled millions of dollars to groups like the African National Congress in South Africa and the Southwest Africa People’s Organization in Namibia. Love said the WCC was recognizing that it is no longer “just sovereign governments but also the legitimate aspirations of the people” that determine when armed conflict might be justified. Recalling that the WCC’s grants to the guerrilla groups went for “humanitarian purposes,” Love said the WCC “cleverly avoided the issue of declaring war reasonable.” She acknowledged that the WCC’s opposition to war along with its support for liberation of oppressed peoples is a debate not likely to be resolved. But there was no such ambivalence about the U.S. use of force, which was roundly condemned by all the WCC speakers. It seems that they would deny any right of self-defense to America, the alleged oppressor of humankind.
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What in the world our right to self-defense has to do with "the poor, the hungry, the excluded, and afflicted,” I will never figure out. At best the flimsiest of connections. They justify the 9-11 murdering Islamaniacs and state that our hidden purpose in Afghanistan was solely to kill as many innocent Afghanis as possible. Place *ALL* the blame on Israel (I have some criticisms from time to time but this is nuts!), while ignoring the suicide bombers, inability to keep agreements, and attitude of all the arabs in general. Not only justify but [u]actively finance[/u] movements that use violence (and murder) as a means of achieving their objectives. This is the most shocking. Inconsistant? You decide. The World Council of Churches is a bankrupt organization in more than finances (but that too, with so many people and churches leaving them)... if I was a religous (or "spiritual" in today's terms with the former having a negative connotation) person I would call them AN APOSTATE OF HELL.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 12:26:24 PM EDT
I missed the molestation thread. Outraged, yes because I've seen what it can do. Topic for an AA meeting was sex abuse and 14 of the 18 there that day had been abused. Both men and women were affected although any sources mentioned were varied. All churches have problems but the Catholics are leading the race so far as pedophile and homosexual areas. Usually the other churches are confronted with abuse of power situations, whereby the minister takes advantage of his position and power as confidante and counselor to gain sexual favors. This involves both men and women pastors with the men accounting for about two thirds. The local church is not so wacko as the parent organization and has a lot of good people, many as upset as I. Rather than just leave, and with the negative vote against homosexuals in the pulpit from congregations nationwide, and one hell of a bunch of pissed off people over the gun control crap, this may be the time people will work to kick some liberal asses. The catholic church has for years and years been a bastion for homosexuals and pedophiles. I'm guessing the scramble to let these guys walk the plank stems from an attempt to cut their losses and to keep the church and the Upper Echelon out of any criminal charges.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 12:31:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 12:36:55 PM EDT by zonan]
Originally Posted By Ghettoblaster: Figures, jesus freaks a;ways figure a way to justify something if it's in gods name.
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The reason molestation takes place in certain catholic churches is exactly because the catholic church has been allowing fags and PC idiots to become preachers...the reason for this thread.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 12:35:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jtw2: I was the same way. I was a Methodist all my life until the minister told my kids that Satan doesn't really exist. More of a concept of evil. That was it for me. I think you would really like an Evangelical Free Church..
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I second the Evangelical Free Church. Very conservative from what I've seen. I've heard of some methodist churches putting things like "Homosexuals welcome!" in their bulletin. Sickening.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 1:09:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan: I second the Evangelical Free Church. Very conservative from what I've seen. I've heard of some methodist churches putting things like "Homosexuals welcome!" in their bulletin. Sickening.
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Almost as sickening as some of the things Jesus said. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Jesus himself was called a friend of tax collectors and "sinners". "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [b]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God[/b]." Churches should not be a place for the healthy to gather to congratulate themselves but a place for the sick to be healed.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 1:19:00 PM EDT
Try a non-denominational church. I put my vote towards being a Born Again Christian.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:20:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan: The reason molestation takes place in certain catholic churches is exactly because the catholic church has been allowing fags and PC idiots to become preachers...the reason for this thread.
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I think we should put some millstones around our churches to remind those pedophiles what Jesus thought of their actions. BTW, I'm pretty pissed too that the Pope seems to be ignoring the desecration of the Church of the Nativity by those palestinians. I think we should start a petitioning campaign and call for the pope to condemn the desecration of our churches by those palestinians. It is a Catholic belief that suicide is a mortal sin which may or may not be forgiven.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:41:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BostonTeaParty: "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [b]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God[/b]." Churches should not be a place for the healthy to gather to congratulate themselves but a place for the sick to be healed.
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Yes I'm aware of what Jesus said. I also am aware that all sin is forgivable. But you forget that Jesus said,"Go and sin no more." People living a homosexual life are openly committing an act of rebellion against God the same way that mass murderers and chronic liars are. They can all be forgiven, but they have to drop their sinful life and gratefully accept the redemption that is offered to everyone. The scripture that you put in bold proves my point: "And that is what some of you [b]were[/b]...."
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 3:04:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By BostonTeaParty: "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [b]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God[/b]." Churches should not be a place for the healthy to gather to congratulate themselves but a place for the sick to be healed.
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Yes I'm aware of what Jesus said. I also am aware that all sin is forgivable. But you forget that Jesus said,"Go and sin no more." People living a homosexual life are openly committing an act of rebellion against God the same way that mass murderers and chronic liars are. They can all be forgiven, but they have to drop their sinful life and gratefully accept the redemption that is offered to everyone. The scripture that you put in bold proves my point: "And that is what some of you [b]were[/b]...."
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My point was that homosexuals were welcome around Jesus and they were welcome in the first-century church in Corinth. They were welcome because the church is a place to find God and healing. That's how Paul could say that they [b]were[/b] sinners. The church needs to welcome sinners because that's how they (we, I) find healing. I'm not saying that the church should condone sin. But putting "Homosexuals welcome" in the bulletin is not condoning sin; on the contrary, it seems to be quite Christ-like to me. Maybe those churches were doing other things that undermined the message of healing that Christ offers, but I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 3:58:42 PM EDT
Powderburner, It is dismaying. Stanley Hauerwas(sp?) once quipped that "God is killing the mainline in America, and we deserve it." It seems as if the majority of the Body of Christ has become transformed by American pop culture. The quest for diversity has eroded the unity of the Body. The Law has been replaced by license. And the political agenda of the left has become the polity and policies of the Church. I think that there is hope though. It seems that the current agenda is being pushed by the baby boomers, and they're going to retire soon. The pendulum will swing back, but it might take a few years. Personally, I love going to those "leftist training camps" (Church and Society Workshops) where I can challenge the idiots with the facts. One time I debunked the whole anti-gun agenda of the presenter with a few well timed observations. Afterwards total stranger came up to me and thanked me for setting the record straight. Speaking of straight... I'm pretty loyal to my denomination BUT if they should ever move to ordain homosexuals - I'm gone!
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 3:47:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2002 3:48:51 PM EDT by jtw2]
Originally Posted By BostonTeaParty:
Originally Posted By zonan: I second the Evangelical Free Church. Very conservative from what I've seen. I've heard of some methodist churches putting things like "Homosexuals welcome!" in their bulletin. Sickening.
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Almost as sickening as some of the things Jesus said. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Jesus himself was called a friend of tax collectors and "sinners". "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [b]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God[/b]." Churches should not be a place for the healthy to gather to congratulate themselves but a place for the sick to be healed.
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Boston, that's the point of an Evangelical Free Church. To bing more and more people the Gospel. It is not enough to believe in Christ, but you must strive to grow in Christ. I have no problem bringing the gospel to homosexuals, but at some point you need to begin to grow. Gotta stop doin' the deed.
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