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Posted: 4/8/2002 7:14:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 7:25:18 AM EDT by DaMan]
[size=6]The Prisoner of Sharon[/size=6] Patrick J. Buchanan April 5 2002 If President Bush is visibly agonizing over this Mideast crisis, who can blame him? For the president is facing a painful and stark choice – between doing what is right for America, and doing what is angrily demanded of him by Ariel Sharon and the War Party in the United States. Incited by the savage suicide attacks over Passover, Sharon sent his army rampaging onto the West Bank, shooting up Arafat's headquarters, killing Palestinians by the score, and igniting a storm of protest from our friends and allies. Why, they demand to know of us, does the president not rein in the raging bull of Ramallah? The president's problem: If he denounces Sharon and demands he pull back from the West Bank, he will dynamite his political coalition at home and call down a firestorm within his own party. Nevertheless, the president must separate America's policy from Sharon's policy. For, if he does not, his own and America's standing in an Arab world of 300 million will come to resemble that of Sharon. The president must not let this happen. For, as a global power, the United States has strategic interests in the Middle East and Islamic world that are far greater than, and far different than, those of Israel. America's interests dictate a peace where Arabs recognize Israel's right to exist, within secure and defensible borders, but Israel also recognizes Palestinian sovereignty over the West Bank and Gaza, and Palestine's capital in Arab East Jerusalem. Absent these concessions, on both sides, there can be no peace, there will be no peace. -continued-[url]http://www.theamericancause.org/pattheprisonerofsharon.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:16:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 7:26:24 AM EDT by DaMan]
But Ariel Sharon does not believe in that peace. When the United States embraced the Oslo accords and Prime Minister Rabin's offer of land-for-peace, when we endorsed Ehud Barak's bold offer to the Palestinians, when President Bush welcomed the Saudi peace plan, Sharon opposed them all, rejected them all, trashed them all, fought them all. Sharon's vision is not America's vision. We must make that known to the world. The Israeli people have a right to elect whomever they wish, but Israel's leader has no automatic right to play America's hand in the Middle East. And if we permit Sharon to play our hand, he will drag our reputation through the same blood and mud through which he has dragged his own for 40 years. Israel is America's ally in the war on terror, but Sharon's war on the Palestinians is not America's war – and if we are to play the role of peacemaker, of honest broker in the Middle East conflict, we cannot give Ariel Sharon America's blank check. America is not hated in that part of the world where we were once respected because we are democratic, prosperous and free. We are hated because of a deepening perception that the United States cannot conduct a policy independent of Israel's. We are hated because we have provided Israel with the weapons it has used not only to defeat Arab armies, but to annex Arab land and crush Palestinian hopes. -continued-[url] http://www.theamericancause.org/pattheprisonerofsharon.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:18:55 AM EDT
Ah, more anti-Israel bullcrap from the master of BS Pat Buchanan. He asks why the President doesn't "rein in" Sharon? Because Sharon is doing EXACTLY what we are doing: going after the state that backs and supplies the terrorists. Rein him in? Hell no. Let him kill the bastards.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:20:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: America's interests dictate a peace where Arabs recognize Israel's right to exist, within secure and defensible borders, but Israel also recognizes Palestinian sovereignty over the West Bank and Gaza, and Palestine's capital in Arab East Jerusalem. Absent these concessions, on both sides, there can be no peace, there will be no peace.
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There are 300,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the occupied Palestinian Territories. Sharon cannot allow peace as those illegal settlers would have to be addressed.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:21:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 7:32:45 AM EDT by DaMan]
The president must erase the perception that Americans are Sharon's silent partners in killing Palestinian dreams of a nation of their own on land on which their fathers have lived for 1,000 years. Why does the president not make clear these crucial differences? Because when he has tried – suggesting, for example, that Sharon's earlier invasion of the West Bank was "not helpful" – the president has been savaged by Sharon's apologists and accused of everything from engineering a Munich to courting a second Holocaust. Last September, Sharon openly suggested that Bush was acting like Neville Chamberlain, selling out Israel the way Chamberlain sold out the Czechs. This was a vile slander of an American president by a foreign leader, but Sharon got away with it. The president must understand that what Sharon and the neoconservative War Party are slavering for is what the latter call "World War IV," a war with America and Israel on one side, and all the enemies of Israel in the Arab and Islamic world on the other – a war that could bring down every pro-American regime in the region and usher in the war of civilizations the president has sought since Sept. 11 to avoid. The Sharonites are the mirror image of Hamas and Hezbollah. They, too, do not want a negotiated peace. They, too, want all this settled in the clarity of war – a big war. [b]But we cannot let them conflate our war on terror with Sharon's war on the Palestinians, which they are avidly seeking to do, as they drag America toward the edge of the abyss.[/b] [url]http://www.theamericancause.org/pattheprisonerofsharon.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:35:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: There are 300,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the occupied Palestinian Territories. Sharon cannot allow peace as those illegal settlers would have to be addressed.
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Illegal? By who's authority? --LS
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:36:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By longshot_va:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: There are 300,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the occupied Palestinian Territories. Sharon cannot allow peace as those illegal settlers would have to be addressed.
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Illegal? By who's authority? --LS
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Apparently previously signed agreements between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I knew there were illegal Israeli settlements but no idea there were 300,000 people involved. (Subject was covered last night, MSNBC - Tim Russert and one Israeli and one Palestinian spokesman.)
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:57:51 AM EDT
'Sorry, I thought this thread was about me. Bring me another clean wash cloth and a dry towel! Quickly' [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020328/capt.1017349218.mideast_israel_palestinians_nn105.jpg[/img] 'Dammit! Where are those peace activists when you really need them?' [img]http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/08/images/site_images/DryBones-Main_Picture.gif[/img] [img]http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/07/images/site_images/DryBones-Main_Picture.gif[/img] Eric The(JustPassingThrough)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 9:48:02 AM EDT
The last two paragraphs sum up Eric the "Israel Firster" Hun's slaverings pretty well. "[b]The president must understand that what Sharon and the neoconservative War Party are slavering for is what the latter call "World War IV," a war with America and Israel on one side, and all the enemies of Israel in the Arab and Islamic world on the other – a war that could bring down every pro-American regime in the region and usher in the war of civilizations the president has sought since Sept. 11 to avoid. The Sharonites are the mirror image of Hamas and Hezbollah. They, too, do not want a negotiated peace. They, too, want all this settled in the clarity of war – a big war. But we cannot let them conflate our war on terror with Sharon's war on the Palestinians, which they are avidly seeking to do, as they drag America toward the edge of the abyss."[/b] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 9:57:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: Eric the (...) Hun's
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i'm sure he'll be along soon to clear up any ambiguity.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 10:05:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Ah, more anti-Israel bullcrap from the master of BS Pat Buchanan.
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What can I say,if you are right your right...........and you are[;)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 10:21:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Ah, more anti-Israel bullcrap from the master of BS Pat Buchanan.
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And Buchanan doesn't want gays in the military or serving as leaders in the Boy Scouts. Rick, I can see why YOU hate his guts! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 10:56:52 AM EDT
If you believe Pat's BS, you must believe Bush is a weak moron, with no ideas of his own and no ability to make any decision independent of the leader of a nation with fewer people than live in New York City. This post reminds me of an old adage: "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only waste your time and annoys the pig."
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:05:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Ah, more anti-Israel bullcrap from the master of BS Pat Buchanan.
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And Buchanan doesn't want gays in the military or serving as leaders in the Boy Scouts. Rick, I can see why YOU hate his guts! [:P] DaMan
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Now that is completely ridiculous. Anyone who offers a difference of opinion is now gay? DaMan, you are completely unable to back up your god, Pat Buchanen, with rational arguments, so shut up.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:08:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: And Buchanan doesn't want gays in the military or serving as leaders in the Boy Scouts. Rick, I can see why YOU hate his guts!
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Wow, you've been taking lying lessons from Belloc. Impressive. Not that you needed them.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:25:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: Now that is completely ridiculous. Anyone who offers a difference of opinion is now gay? DaMan, you are completely unable to back up your god, Pat Buchanen, with rational arguments, so shut up.
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Torf, no, I'm not calling Rik gay because he disagrees with me on this article. He has stated in the past that he is all for gays in the military. And I don't have to back up "my god, Pat Buchanon." I think he summed up the situation pretty well in his article and needs no protection from the slaverings of the peanut gallery! [:P] So, YOU shut up, Torf, unless you can refute what was stated in Buchanan's article! DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:28:47 AM EDT
Ok. PB said, "...a painful and stark choice – between doing what is right for America, and doing what is angrily demanded of him by Ariel Sharon..." In reality, Ariel Sharon is making no demands upon the President of the US. He is fighting his own war, and is doing a good job.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:32:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 11:34:19 AM EDT by Torf]
He also said, "Sharon sent his army rampaging onto the West Bank, shooting up Arafat's headquarters, killing Palestinians by the score, and igniting a storm of protest from our friends and allies." Is this because Sharon is the half brother of Adolph Hitler's third marraige to Osama bin Laden? No. It is because the official Palestinian position is that all Isrealis should die, and by any means necessary. Does the US go around shooting up Taliban HQ's? Yes. Hmmmm. I wonder why? Also, PB makes no distinction between pregnant women and AK wielding militants. Could he be so bold as to lie about who is being killed?
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:36:45 AM EDT
"The president's problem: If he denounces Sharon and demands he pull back from the West Bank, he will dynamite his political coalition at home and call down a firestorm within his own party." Yes, but if he does nothing, the only people that will get really pissed are terrorists, and their supporters. Not people I care too much about.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:41:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 11:52:05 AM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By Torf: In reality, Ariel Sharon is making no demands upon the President of the US. He is fighting "his own war", and is doing a good job.
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You got that right, Torf. Sharon is fighting HIS OWN WAR ..... NOT OURS! He ignores the interests and concerns of the United States. He can give the US the finger and still expect the big check from the US to "be in the mail." You like that idea, Torf? DaMan PS - Did you notice that Buchanan wrote this article THREE DAYS AGO????!!! Now how did he know how Sharon would react to the President's statement? Very inciteful!
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:43:20 AM EDT
"Nevertheless, the president must separate America's policy from Sharon's policy. For, if he does not, his own and America's standing in an Arab world of 300 million will come to resemble that of Sharon. The president must not let this happen. For, as a global power, the United States has strategic interests in the Middle East and Islamic world that are far greater than, and far different than, those of Israel." So when did the famously 'isolationist and opponent of free trade' change his mind about asserting US power around the globe? Besides sending conflicting signals, by separating Israel's policy from the US policy invites charges of hypocricy, and ultimately one policy will fail. Who cares about the desires of 300 million Arabs anyway? Most of these people want you dead. I don't care too much about the 10,000 ants that are in my yard who are intent on getting rid of me. I dispassionately kill them when they overstep their bounds.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:48:31 AM EDT
"America's interests dictate a peace where Arabs recognize Israel's right to exist, within secure and defensible borders, but Israel also recognizes Palestinian sovereignty over the West Bank and Gaza, and Palestine's capital in Arab East Jerusalem. Absent these concessions, on both sides, there can be no peace, there will be no peace." Arabs will never realize Israel's right to exist without being utterly defeated in a war. They never have, and never will. Palistinian leader Yasser Arafat doesn't want a Palistinian state. He was given that during the Clinton Administration. Barak, the administration puppet, gave up almost everything during the Camp David Accords, but Yasser turned it down. 98% of what he wanted wasn't good enough! Poor Bill Clinton didn't get his N. Peace Prize, and he faded into obscurity.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:52:41 AM EDT
"...Sharon opposed them all, rejected them all, trashed them all, fought them all. Sharon's vision is not America's vision." I would have opposed them too. And since when is Pat Buchannen in touch with America's vision?!!? He could get nowhere in any primary, is considered a demon by the left, and a spoiled little brat by the right, and along with John McCain and Jim Jeffords, can eat the peanuts out of my $hit all day long. [flame]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:00:13 PM EDT
"The Israeli people have a right to elect whomever they wish, but Israel's leader has no automatic right to play America's hand in the Middle East. And if we permit Sharon to play our hand, he will drag our reputation through the same blood and mud through which he has dragged his own for 40 years." Unfortunately for the Palistinians, they are given no such chance to elect a president. Yassar has NEVER WON ANY ELECTION! "Freedom for our people!" they cry. Yeah, freedom to be tyrranized by some 2 bit dictator, free from the protection of Israel, a more civilized nation. Sharon is doing nothing with America's hand, but America has been restraining Israel since day 1. Welcome to reality PB. As far as America's reputation is concerned. Enemies will always hate it regardless. True foreign $shitpile regimes shall be known by their attitude towards our country. Iraq, Cuba, France, China,... All of these countries have revealed their positions about the US. Time to reveal ours. [-=(_)=-]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:01:59 PM EDT
"Israel is America's ally in the war on terror, but Sharon's war on the Palestinians is not America's war – and if we are to play the role of peacemaker, of honest broker in the Middle East conflict, we cannot give Ariel Sharon America's blank check." So let them fight their war, and if you don't like the financial support, talk to your friendly senator or representative.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:02:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: .... and along with John McCain and Jim Jeffords, can eat the peanuts out of my $hit all day long.
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Funny you mention McCain, where does HE side on this issue? And Jeffords? Those must be your boys, Torf! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:06:24 PM EDT
Diplomacy is a complex game. For instance: When GWB said he suppoted the idea of a Palestinian State, there was an uproar. GWB was right to say it, though. It gives him something that, during negotiations, can be taken off the table. And then put back back on, if necessary, WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING. It's all talk.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:07:00 PM EDT
"America is not hated in that part of the world where we were once respected because we are democratic, prosperous and free. We are hated because of a deepening perception that the United States cannot conduct a policy independent of Israel's. We are hated because we have provided Israel with the weapons it has used not only to defeat Arab armies, but to annex Arab land and crush Palestinian hopes." Yeah, hopes to destroy Israel. This is the biggest bunch of Liberal PC garbage I have ever read. Osama didn't send planes to our WTC and Pentagon because of some silly little rock fight in Israel. He did it because we are "infidels" or in other words, not Muslim. At least (most) Christians don't try to KILL people who won't convert. We may be hated for many reasons, but first is that we are the "enemy of their God" whatever that means. Their god can follow Pat Buchannen, John McCain, and Jim Jeffords, and go have a snack!
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:11:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: Their god can follow Pat Buchannen, John McCain, and Jim Jeffords, and go have a snack!
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Torf, evidently you missed my previous post! McCain and Jeffords are in lock step with YOU on this issue (or visa versa)! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:12:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By Torf: In reality, Ariel Sharon is making no demands upon the President of the US. He is fighting "his own war", and is doing a good job.
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You got that right, Torf. Sharon is fighting HIS OWN WAR ..... NOT OURS! He ignores the interests and concerns of the United States. He can give the US the finger and still expect the big check from the US to "be in the mail." You like that idea, Torf? DaMan PS - Did you notice that Buchanan wrote this article THREE DAYS AGO????!!! Now how did he know how Sharon would react to the President's statement? Very inciteful!
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I'd rather be sending the money to Israel then most of the other nations we support. I am not a huge fan of giving away money, but I am a fan of fighting tyrranny, dictatorships and genocide. Hell, I knew that Sharon wouldn't stop his offensive. It didn't take much of a brain to see that coming. And I think you meant, 'insightful', which means "full of insight", and not inciteful, which is what you did to RikWriter earlier.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:12:58 PM EDT
[b]'Heh-Heh, I am greater than even the Great and Wonderful Osama Bin Laden!'[/b] [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020328/capt.1017349218.mideast_israel_palestinians_nn105.jpg[/img] '[u]When[/u] did the United States ever offer Osama Bin Laden [b]'land for peace'[/b], as they have consistently, constantly, and unapologetically insisted on Israel offering to me!' 'Or was it 'peace for land'? I dunno, I forget the small details.'
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:15:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By Torf: .... and along with John McCain and Jim Jeffords, can eat the peanuts out of my $hit all day long.
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Funny you mention McCain, where does HE side on this issue? And Jeffords? Those must be your boys, Torf! [:P] DaMan
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I am referring to the fact that Buchannen throws temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. All these men are noted for the same. Better save that waggley tounge, your wife is getting jealous.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:19:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By Torf: Their god can follow Pat Buchannen, John McCain, and Jim Jeffords, and go have a snack!
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Torf, evidently you missed my previous post! McCain and Jeffords are in lock step with YOU on this issue (or visa versa)! [:P] DaMan
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McCain might have an issue or two that I agree with, but if I am found to disagree with him, History has shown that he will use the full power of the Federal Government to shut me up. Jeffords of the other hand is merely a socialist who sold out America for 15 minutes of fame. I stand by my Peanut eating statement... do your worst!
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:20:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 12:22:25 PM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By Torf: I am referring to the fact that Buchannen throws temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. "All these men are noted for the same." Better save that waggley tounge, your wife is getting jealous.
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McCAIN AND JEFFORDS ARE ON YOUR SIDE ON THIS ISSUE, TORF! YOU FEEL "UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THAT????!!!! [:P] And your "waggley tongue" comment sounds like YOU'RE throwing a temper tantrum! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:26:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By Torf: I am referring to the fact that Buchannen throws temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. "All these men are noted for the same." Better save that waggley tounge, your wife is getting jealous.
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McCAIN AND JEFFORS ARE ON YOUR SIDE ON THIS ISSUE, TORF! YOU FEEL "UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THAT????!!!! [:P] And your "waggley tongue" comment sounds like YOU'RE throwing a temper tantrum! [:P] DaMan
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Since you read about as slow as you type, I'll just wait for you to finish. [:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P][:P] I don't care what side of the issue they are on, they have no credibility. Would you engage Nero in an insightful (remember that word?) discussion about the evils of torture? No. You probably wouldn't even ask his opinion of a proposed waterpark. I wouldn't hire Hitler to watch my dog even though he cared deeply for his own. Here try this one: [<|:d>]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:51:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: Torf, no, I'm not calling Rik gay because he disagrees with me on this article. He has stated in the past that he is all for gays in the military.
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Nope. That's simply your lie on the subject. What I stated was very clear, but it's frankly irrelevant to the subject at hand, except that you're wrong about this subject too.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 12:52:35 PM EDT
All Bush has to do is wait and the problem will fix itself (at least the Isreali problem). So there is not really a problem there. All he must do is wait and say nothing and merely concentrate on Iraq. Ben
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:07:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By DaMan: Torf, no, I'm not calling Rik gay because he disagrees with me on this article. He has stated in the past that he is all for gays in the military.
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Nope. That's simply your lie on the subject.
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So, Rik, you DON'T think gays should be allowed in the US military?!!!! I must have been mistaken. I thought you stated it was perfectly OK to have gays in the military! Silly me! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:17:37 PM EDT
They better not drag ass getting out! [b]JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The Israeli army will begin a pullout from two West Bank cities within hours, Israel Radio said Monday. The report said Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, under pressure from President Bush to start a withdrawal from Palestinian areas seized 10 days ago, had decided Israeli forces would leave the cities of Qalqilya and Tulkarm. There was no immediate confirmation from the Israeli army. The radio said Sharon made the decision after consultations with top cabinet ministers and that Israel would announce that its forces were leaving the two cities after completing their mission there to round up militants and weapons. The report did not say when Israel intended to withdraw from other West Bank cities, villages and refugee camps seized after a Palestinian suicide bomber killed 27 people at a Passover holiday dinner in an Israeli hotel on March 27.[/b]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:23:37 PM EDT
There are 300,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the occupied Palestinian Territories. Sharon cannot allow peace as those illegal settlers would have to be addressed. Illegal? By who's authority? Apparently previously signed agreements between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I knew there were illegal Israeli settlements but no idea there were 300,000 people involved. (Subject was covered last night, MSNBC - Tim Russert and one Israeli and one Palestinian spokesman.)
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The Isreali settlements are illegal according to the Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. "The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own population into the territories it occupies." Either you abide by the signed Geneva Conventions or not. There is no half way because the other side is full of savages.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:24:07 PM EDT
Post from DaMan -
They better not drag ass getting out!
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Why? What are you gonna do about it if they do?[:D] Eric The(GoWakeUpYasserFromHisNap-He'llEnjoyThis!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:25:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: I must have been mistaken. Silly me!
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Yes, you frequently are mistaken and you frequently are silly.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:29:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from DaMan -
They better not drag ass getting out!
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_______________________________________________ Why? What are you gonna do about it if they do? Eric The Hun [img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img]
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Eric, if it appears that Bush and Sharon are playing "Mutt and Jeff", it won't play well in the rest of the World and the US will lose credibility. DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:36:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By DaMan: I must have been mistaken. Silly me!
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Yes, you frequently are mistaken and you frequently are silly.
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Hmmmm! No answer to my question about your opinion of gays in the military. You think gays should be allowed in the US military? It's OK if you don't want to answer my question. No answer is also an answer! [:P] DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:42:40 PM EDT
Post from DaMan -
Eric, if it appears that Bush and Sharon are playing "Mutt and Jeff", it won't play well in the rest of the World and the US will lose credibility.
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Well, gee, we really need to make certain that the rest of the world believes in the US, all right! Our credibility is nothing if we don't stand by our allies in times such as these! Is there any time limitation that you know of that President Bush has given for the end to the War on Terror? I thought I heard him mention 'years' in a prior speech, maybe not, eh? But he won't give the Israelis a few more weeks to put an end to terrorism in their neighborhood? How rude and thoughtless! Eric The(What'sASharonToDo?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:50:26 PM EDT
Isn't it nice to see all of the political support for Yasser Arafat come crawling out of the woodwork? [img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20020408/i/1018292852.3758211077.jpg[/img] Iraqi President Saddam Hussein gives a speech on national television April 8, 2002. Saddam Hussein announced an immediate month-long suspension of all Iraqi oil exports [b]to protest Israel's incursion into Palestinian areas of the West Bank on Monday[/b]. The unilateral decision, halting two million barrels a day or some four percent of international oil supplies, comes as Baghdad seeks diplomatic support among its Arab neighbors against the threat of a military attack by the United States. REUTERS/INA/ I suppose Saddam must have all of his ducks in a row, by now! Eric The(TwoPeasInAPod-Arafat&Hussein)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 1:55:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 1:59:34 PM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Our credibility is nothing if we don't stand by allies in times such as these! Eric The(What'sASharonToDo?)Hun [img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img]
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Our credibility is nothing, if we give "a nod and a wink" to Israel while sending a different message to the rest of the World. Buchanan's words are more true now than a few days ago! You will see HOW TRUE, if these events are seen in the world as a "bad cop/good cop" ploy! DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 2:36:01 PM EDT
Keep in mind Pat Buchanan penned his comments THREE DAYS AGO! [b]"If President Bush is visibly agonizing over this Mideast crisis, who can blame him? For the president is facing a painful and stark choice – between doing what is right for America, and doing what is angrily demanded of him by Ariel Sharon and the War Party in the United States."[/b] How true! Listen to the moaning and gnashing of teeth of the "Israeli Firsters" in response to the Presidents demands of Israel! "[b]Israel is America's ally in the war on terror, but Sharon's war on the Palestinians is not America's war – and if we are to play the role of peacemaker, of honest broker in the Middle East conflict, we cannot give Ariel Sharon America's blank check."[/b] If Israel does not comply rapidly with President Bush's demands, then the US will not be taken seriously as an "honest broker of peace." [b]"We are hated because of a deepening perception that the United States cannot conduct a policy independent of Israel's."[/b] If the Israelis don't "comply" with the President's demands, it will increase the appearance of the "tail wagging the dog." "[b]The president must understand that what Sharon and the neoconservative War Party are slavering for is what the latter call "World War IV," a war with America and Israel on one side, and all the enemies of Israel in the Arab and Islamic world on the other – a war that could bring down every pro-American regime in the region and usher in the war of civilizations the president has sought since Sept. 11 to avoid. The Sharonites are the mirror image of Hamas and Hezbollah. They, too, do not want a negotiated peace. They, too, want all this settled in the clarity of war – a big war. But we cannot let them conflate our war on terror with Sharon's war on the Palestinians, which they are avidly seeking to do, as they drag America toward the edge of the abyss".[/b] Those last two paragraphs say it all! DaMan
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:20:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: But Ariel Sharon does not believe in that peace. When the United States embraced the Oslo accords and Prime Minister Rabin's offer of land-for-peace, when we endorsed Ehud Barak's bold offer to the Palestinians, when President Bush welcomed the Saudi peace plan, Sharon opposed them all, rejected them all, trashed them all, fought them all. Sharon's vision is not America's vision. We must make that known to the world.
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I find this particularly amusing. It seems 'ol Pat has forgotten that Sharon had no say in wether this deal went through or not. Arafat walked away from the table not Sharon and not Barak. Barak was offering 99% of what Arafat wanted and near continuously stated needed to happed if there was ever to be peace in the region. This tells me Arafat does not and never did want peace. It was then that I decided that I was through believing anything Arafat said. The US should have taken off the kid gloves right then and there and told Arafat on no uncertain terms that the support Israel was getting then would be nothing compared to the 10 divisions of American armor we were prepared to put into the region to settle the dispute once and for all. Even then the specter of Sharon was looming over the horizon. Arafat had his chance to deal and squandered it. He knew damn well who would win the next election of Barak's attempt at lasting peace for the region failed.
The Israeli people have a right to elect whomever they wish, but Israel's leader has no automatic right to play America's hand in the Middle East. And if we permit Sharon to play our hand, he will drag our reputation through the same blood and mud through which he has dragged his own for 40 years.
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That's right, they do. Their election of Sharon is a clear signal that they are tired of playing Arafat's game. I also find it amusing that we care not about how much mud and blood Arafat drags us through. Our continued negotiations with a clown who obviously has no intention of dealing in good faith makes us look like fools or worse.
Israel is America's ally in the war on terror, but Sharon's war on the Palestinians is not America's war – and if we are to play the role of peacemaker, of honest broker in the Middle East conflict, we cannot give Ariel Sharon America's blank check.
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Also amusing in that Pat expects our allies to fight terrorism, but only where it is politically expedient for us. If the terrorists in question are not specifically on our plate, they should be left to blow up malls and restaurants. (and claim that they are going to use their bodies as bombs to destroy Israeli tanks. Damn clever of the Israelis to hide tanks in malls....) (cont)
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:21:47 PM EDT
America is not hated in that part of the world where we were once respected because we are democratic, prosperous and free. We are hated because of a deepening perception that the United States cannot conduct a policy independent of Israel's. We are hated because we have provided Israel with the weapons it has used not only to defeat Arab armies, but to annex Arab land and crush Palestinian hopes.
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No we're hated because we stand up for our only true ally in the area. They hate us because we do not blindly support them. Then they accuse us of supporting Israel blindly, even though it is what they expect us to do for them. Arafat and his ilk are a blight whose time is rapidly drawing to a close. Any claim that he wants nothing more than peace and and homeland is insulting at best.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 3:37:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: Hmmmm! No answer to my question about your opinion of gays in the military.
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That's because this thread has nothing to do with gays in the military...you simply brought that up because you knew you couldn't defend Buchanan's idiocy.
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