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Posted: 4/6/2002 7:07:12 PM EDT
Man this one is confusing me. I would like to pick up another long range rifle. The one I have now is chambered in .308. I would like something that will shoot a heavier bullet and buck the wind a bit more. What I had originally decided on was the .300 Winchester Magnum. But now they came out with the .300 Winchester Short Magnum. According to the charts that I have seen the .300 WSM is very similar to the .300 win mag with a 180gr bullet. But does anyone know how it does with the heavier 220gr bullets? Is the smaller case volume going to be a problem. Also they say the WSM doesnt have a belt. What does that mean?
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:15:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2002 7:16:50 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:20:27 PM EDT
If you are pursueing the accurate rifle try Benchrest.com Click on centerfire forum. Begin a dialogue. No log in is required. These guys really dwell on the 6ppc, but there are some hardheads like myself that pursue the 6.5 in many forms out to 1000 yds preferably the 6.5x284 in an old Mauser action with a Krieger barrel 29" long using 54 gr. 4064 and a Sierra 142 Gr. Match bthp. Lots of scientific stuff there. If you buy rifles you might as well stay away until you can build them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:36:36 PM EDT
I've wanted a 6.5x284, but I was not aware that the Mauser was the preferred action. I thought that round was a bit hot for Mausers. Also, is anyone using the 155 gr Sierra BTHP at 1,000? Or do you give up too much velocity? With the advent of the .300WSM, I was thinking about possibly necking it down to 6.5mm - it's alread a short, fat case with good capacity. In a long action you should be able to load the 142 and the 155 grain bullets well out and still fit the action.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:37:25 PM EDT
I think I found what I was looking for on benchrest.com. I think I am going to stick with the tried and true .300 Winchester Magnum.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:42:06 PM EDT
If you are already shooting a .308 and want a stiffer cartridge in a long action, then I would go with either a .300 WinMag or a .300 RemUltraMag. The remington cartridge has more powder, so more capacity to push a heavier bullet faster than the lower volume winchester cartridge. They both kick pretty good without a muzzle break. [:)] Winchester's short magnum action and Remington's short action ultra mag actions do not cross over to each other on the different actions very well. Can you say proprietary! As far as short actions go, the WSM or RemSAUM, are the only real choices out their. Personally, it is hard to beat the pre '64 winchester action, although most run of the mill custom guns are built on remington actions. I think that this is more of a function of the military standard and the fact that winchester screwed up when they dropped the 64 action a while back. I think that they have switched back to pre '64 on all of their rifles. If you wanted to go real custom built, you could do a remington action with a sako extractor and get a super common action with a highly reliable extractor. Upside is the common action, while the down side is it is a PITA to field strip a remington bolt, which is not the case with a winchester bolt. Anyways, it is hard to go wrong when you are buying a gun as opposed to almost anything else. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:59:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: I've wanted a 6.5x284, but I was not aware that the Mauser was the preferred action. I thought that round was a bit hot for Mausers. Also, is anyone using the 155 gr Sierra BTHP at 1,000? Or do you give up too much velocity? With the advent of the .300WSM, I was thinking about possibly necking it down to 6.5mm - it's alread a short, fat case with good capacity. In a long action you should be able to load the 142 and the 155 grain bullets well out and still fit the action.
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I've got a Mauser that is chambered in 300 mag. its made by FN, and everybody raves about these actions as being the best Mausers, but they are also the ugliest. The 6.5-284 that I have started out as a Steyr7mm, was rechambered to .308 by an arsenal, and then I bought it. I had hoped for a DNR mans deer hunting rifle, but it was really inaccurate! I pulled the barrel and ordered one from Krieger 2 years ago in 6.5-284. It hits 1000 yds nicely!
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 8:07:13 PM EDT
I once saw a rifle modified by Ray Orodorica that he intended to use in Africa based on a 98 Mauser that was chambered in 416 Rigby and he had modified the mag to hold two rounds of Rigby. It was ground so far out in the front of the mag that he also ground a little bit out of the wood stock to clear the two bullets. This is the 350 Chevy of rifles. You can do more cheap.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 11:31:28 PM EDT
The 300 WSM is between the 30-06 and the 300 Win Mag in case capacity and pretty much performs as such, according to Winchester's(maybe a little optimistic) data it matches or slightly exceeds the 300 Win Mag velocities with a 180 Gr. bullet but starts looseing ground as bullet weight increases. It is my understanding that the cartridge is somewhat long for a "short cartridge" and will not function in the Remington short action. Brass life should be much better than the 300 Win Mag, barrel life should be better as well and I doubt if the slightly lower velocities are of any concern. I think it will be a very good cartridge, but why does it exist?[;)] By eliminating the belt the case diameter can be increased to the diameter of the eliminated belt for an increase in case capacity, feeding smoothness and reliability are enhanced, and brass life is much better. The belt serves no purpose on most of the Magnum cartridges that use it but thats a whole different story that goes back to head space problems with the 375 H&H in 1912 and the Magnum craze of the 1960's. Have a nice evening, Rabon...
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 5:36:42 AM EDT
Was it American Riflemen who stated the shorter WSM cases result in more accurate loads due to the shorter power column? In any case, that 270 WSM looks interesting too.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:03:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: Was it American Riflemen who stated the shorter WSM cases result in more accurate loads due to the shorter power column? In any case, that 270 WSM looks interesting too.
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Yes, from all the tests I've ever seen on the cartridge, the .300wsm is more accurate, and has less recoil than the 300 WinMag. I don't know about the heavier bullets, but with 180 grains, the .300WSM also has a longer range and flatter trajectory. It looks like a good bet to me...I'd buy one.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:23:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By schapman43: But does anyone know how it does with the heavier 220gr bullets? I
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schapman, your barrel twist should indicate how the rifle will perform with the heavier bullet. I've got an ArmaLite AR-30 bolt-gun on order and have changed calibers mentally about 41 times ! Finally I'm set on the .300 WinMag.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:52:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 7:52:57 AM EDT by Benchrest1000]
I own both. Gotta say that the WSM is sweet with everything up to around 190. My 1 in 10 custom gun shoots them into a little hole at 200 yards all day long. However, if you want to go way out there, the 220 Sierra MK is the bullet to shoot (unless you want the 240 that Sierra makes.) It's tough for the lighter bullets to beat out the 220 at very long range. My 300 Winchester bench gun has shot half MOA at 1000. Since my crosshairs cover half of that, I think I'll stick with the longer case.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 3:57:16 PM EDT
The WSM's theoretical accuracy advantage is probably just that. While factory loads will be similar, the 300 Win Mag can be loaded quite a bit hotter than the WSM. In fact, a 300 Win Mag hot hand load is within a whisker of the 300 Wby and 300 Ultra.
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