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Posted: 4/6/2002 2:55:54 PM EDT
[size=4]Despite Bush's Call, Israel Pummels West Bank Cities[/size=4] Sat Apr 6, 2:53 PM ET By JAMES BENNET with JOHN KIFNER The New York Times NABLUS, West Bank, April 6 Ferocious fighting raged here and elsewhere on the West Bank today as Israel pressed its wide-ranging offensive against Palestinian cities despite President Bush's call for a withdrawal. Indeed, Israeli officials were openly taking Secretary of State Colin L. Powell's schedule for his emergency Middle East trip as giving them a grace period of at least a week to finish what they began. He will arrive here at the end of next week. "We are finishing the operation we started," said Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer. The continuing battles came as Arab foreign ministers met in emergency session in Cairo to address the mounting crisis, protests spread across the Arab world and Mr. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain met at the president's ranch in Texas to discuss the situation. Two American-made Apache helicopter gunships circled overhead this afternoon, pouring rockets and gunfire into the casbah, Nablus's old city, a closed, twisting stone labyrinth that has become a redoubt for Palestinian fighters. At one point the helicopters unleashed a half-dozen rockets at the casbah, causing loud explosions and a cloud of smoke. The fighting here and in the nearby city of Jenin pitted Israeli tanks and armor against Palestinians hiding among buildings on city streets and in refugee camps. Reports said that Palestinian commanders were handing out explosive suicide-bomber-type belts, and at times Palestinian fighters rushed in to try to blow up Israeli soldiers. [b]Palestinian officials were warning this evening of a "massacre" in Nablus.[/b] Nablus and the refugee camps on its edges, Balata and Askar, have long been strongholds of Palestinian militancy. Balata, which Israeli forces were reported attacking late this afternoon, is the birthplace of Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades, an offshoot of Yasir Arafat's mainstream Fatah movement, which in recent weeks has moved to the forefront of suicide bombers. Palestinians say they have rigged the narrow, twisting streets and tunnels of the casbah with bombs and booby traps. In Gaza early Saturday, an Israeli soldier and two Palestinian gunmen were killed in a clash as the gunmen tried to enter a Jewish settlement, an army statement said. On the tense northern border with Lebanon, Hezbollah guerrillas fired mortar rounds and rockets into Israel, which retaliated with artillery. Syrian troops in Lebanon have been redeploying to the north and east for the past two days, apparently to get away from any possible retaliation. - continued -
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 2:59:49 PM EDT
In Nablus, the largest city in the West Bank, the Israelis have seized the high ground, taking over buildings, hanging camouflage netting over the windows and parking armored personnel carriers outside. As in Ramallah and other cities the Israelis have stormed, the streets are empty, the stores shuttered, the people staying inside their homes. The eerie silence is broken only by the grinding of the tanks' steel treads and the rattles and booms of gunfire. Here too, cars were crushed on the street, run over by tanks. The door of a yellow sedan hung open today, shredded. In a strange moment, two Arab shepherds herded dozens of sheep past the Israeli armor. A stray cat, similarly oblivious, ran under a tank. As a journalist's car passed by on the empty streets, a woman cried through the bars of her window "I have a six-month old baby with asthma. I don't know what to do. A man leaned over his balcony and shouted in German, "The Jews destroyed my car!" Al Aksa said one of its members in Nablus, Jamil Aboudi, 22, strapped on a belt of explosives and blew himself up, injuring or killing four Israeli soldiers. Yesterday, a main leader of the brigades, Nasser Awais, died when his explosive belt went off prematurely, said a spokesman for the group, Abu Mujahed. At the Askar camp, four Palestinians were gunned down as they tried to plant explosives by the roadside, the army said. The fighting was tough, too, at the refugee camp by Jenin, where the Palestinian gunmen are dug in and the army is using bulldozers to smash through houses to get to them. At Al Razi hospital, just outside the Jenin camp, Dr. Ziad Ayaseh said hundreds of phone calls had come in saying there were dead and wounded lying on the street. The hospital also got a call from a woman giving birth and asking for help. But the staff could do nothing and the baby died. A wounded man, shot in the hand and stomach was brought to the hospital, he said, and dropped about four yards from the front door. But Israeli soldiers in a tank parked nearby would not let them bring the man inside, and after several hours he bled to death, Dr. Ayaseh said in a telephone interview. The doctor said he also heard a frantic telephone call to the hospital from the man's wife, saying their home was being bulldozed. "For God's sake, help us. They're destroying the house on our heads," the woman was reported as having said before fleeing to another house. Dr. Ayaseh said he could see both houses being razed from a window. The Israeli commander on the scene said it was a fight to the death. Palestinians calling out of the camp to news agencies reported dead and wounded on the streets and intense shelling by tanks and helicopter gunships throughout last night. Both Israelis and Palestinians said that the Hamas leader who was behind the March 27 Passover suicide bombing, which killed 26 people and led to the Israeli military assault, died on Friday in a targeted killing in the town of Tubas. He was identified as Qeis Odwan, and he died when the house in which he was hiding with five others was riddled with fire from tanks and helicopters. - continued -
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:00:20 PM EDT
In Bethlehem, the standoff continued at the Church of the Nativity in Manger Square, where about 200 people, including gunmen, are barricaded. About 7:15 p.m., journalists on the roof of the Star Hotel, about a half mile away, heard a loud explosion and saw a fireball and smoke coming from the area of a market near Manger Square and said they could see Israeli tanks in motion. It was difficult to ascertain many of the details of the fighting or the casualty figures because Israel has declared all of the areas in which the army is operating to be "closed military zones." Even when journalists have managed to slip inside the compound, their movements have been restricted by soldiers. In Bethlehem, the journalists have been kept back around the Star Hotel, a distance through the narrow streets from Manger Square. A small group of journalists peering from the roof of Al Qasr Hotel said that tracer fire was directed their way, the bullets whistling nearby over their heads. Whatever the insistence of Mr. Bush and Mr. Powell that the Israelis should withdraw quickly, officials here were taking Mr. Bush's statement that the United States would become more involved in negotiations to mean they could keep going. Writing in the leading newspaper Haaretz the day after Mr. Bush's speech, their military correspondent, Aluf Benn, began his analysis: "U.S. President George W. Bush yesterday granted Israel a few more days' grace to complete the Protective Wall offensive" until Secretary of State Colin Powell arrives in the region according to Jerusalem's assessment of the speech. See article at:[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nyt/20020406/ts_nyt/despite_bush_s_call__israel_pummels_west_bank_cities&printer=1[/url] If the Israelis were like the Nazis, as some dolts have claimed, they would have simply burned down the Church of the Nativity with everyone trapped inside! Eric The(Right?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:06:06 PM EDT
The fighting here and in the nearby city of Jenin pitted Israeli tanks and armor against Palestinians hiding among buildings on city streets and in refugee camps. Reports said that Palestinian commanders were handing out explosive suicide-bomber-type belts, and at times Palestinian fighters rushed in to try to blow up Israeli soldiers. Palestinian officials were warning this evening of a "massacre" in Nablus. Nablus and the refugee camps on its edges, Balata and Askar, have long been strongholds of Palestinian militancy. Balata, which Israeli forces were reported attacking late this afternoon, is the birthplace of Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades, an offshoot of Yasir Arafat's mainstream Fatah movement, which in recent weeks has moved to the forefront of suicide bombers. Palestinians say they have rigged the narrow, twisting streets and tunnels of the casbah with bombs and booby traps.
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Gotta hand it to these people, bright they are not...but they are determined to die no matter what. As for "rigging" things, apparently the Pals want to learn about MLRS and tube arty next. Air delivered cluster munitions would also deal with this "threat" quite well. Perhaps they will find out in Phase 2. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:16:11 PM EDT
Note what a 'stun grenade' can do to your typical liberal media cameraman outside of Arafat's compound in Ramallah! [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020405/capt.1018028067.mideast_israel_palestinians_xjd205.jpg[/img] Eric The(That'sGottaLeaveAMark!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:38:05 PM EDT
Good article, Hun. I just wish Bush would let the Israelies finish the job at hand. Anything less will only result in more terrorist activity. The rags must learn there is a price to pay for blowing up civilians. Arafathead is a liar and nothing more. His time to die has arrived, really arrived over 20 years ago. The Jews need to clean out this nest of vermin once and for all. No, I am not Jewish! I also realize their behaviour has not been perfect but those problems can be worked on after the rags are fully subdued. Those that fail to renounce terrorism need to die - period!
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:55:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2002 4:00:41 PM EDT by satcong]
[b]Now the king told the boogie men You have to let that raga drop The oil down the desert way Has been shakin' to the top The sheik he drove his Cadillac He went a' cruisnin' down the ville The muezzin was a' standing On the radiator grille CHORUS The shareef don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah The shareef don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah By order of the prophet We ban that boogie sound Degenerate the faithful With that crazy Casbah sound But the Bedouin they brought out The electric camel drum The local guitar picker Got his guitar picking thumb As soon as the shareef Had cleared the square They began to wail CHORUS Now over at the temple Oh! They really pack 'em in The in crowd say it's cool To dig this chanting thing But as the wind changed direction The temple band took five The crowd caught a wiff Of that crazy Casbah jive CHORUS The king called up his jet fighters He said you better earn your pay Drop your bombs between the minarets Down the Casbah way As soon as the shareef was Chauffeured outta there The jet pilots tuned to The cockpit radio blare As soon as the shareef was Outta their hair The jet pilots wailed CHORUS He thinks it's not kosher Fundamentally he can't take it. You know he really hates it.[/b] ---Clash, Combat Rock
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:07:07 PM EDT
Gasoline up $.25 at the pump in the last 30 days.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:20:15 PM EDT
Yes, [b]subsailor[/b], that sure is strange how the lag time seems to disappear [b]anytime[/b] gas prices go up, but then suddenly reappears anytime gas prices begin to drop. The gas at the pumps in this country was in the ground some two months ago. But don't blame little ol' Israel for gas price increases - Hell, without them being a player in the Middle East, who knows what we'd be paying now! Eric The(Fluctuating)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:23:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Yes, [b]subsailor[/b], that sure is strange how the lag time seems to disappear [b]anytime[/b] gas prices go up, but then suddenly reappears anytime gas prices begin to drop. The gas at the pumps in this country was in the ground some two months ago. But don't blame little ol' Israel for gas price increases - Hell, without them being a player in the Middle East, who knows what we'd be paying now! Eric The(Fluctuating)Hun[>]:)]
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Price increases are smooth where price decreases are a bit sticky. Wall Street blames the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:26:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2002 4:44:55 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Egypt has now moved closer to severing ties with Israel. rags, rag heads, sand ni$$ers ?? All these pejorative words are appearing in topics posted on this subject. Dehumanization is well under way. Edited to add: vermin and sub-humans The two latter adds were a standard part of Nazi propaganda used against the Jews prior to and during WW II. History repeating .
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:31:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Two American-made Apache helicopter gunships circled overhead this afternoon, pouring rockets and gunfire into the casbah...
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Paid for by the American taxpayer and made in America. Must make you proud Eric ? Wonder why the Israelis don't use suicide bombers ?
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:32:23 PM EDT
beat me to it, satcong! rockin' the casbah! early 3rd quarter score: zionists, with home field advantage, 66; the visiting fundamentalist terrorists, still 3.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:41:27 PM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
Wonder why the Israelis don't use suicide bombers ?
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[size=4] 'Cause their G-d said 'Thou Shalt Not Murder!'[/size=4] That other guy apparently dropped the ball on the 'thou shalt not murder' part of his book! Eric The(OtherwiseWe'dBeHearingFromTheMullahsOther­wise!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:48:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from 5subslr5 -
Wonder why the Israelis don't use suicide bombers ?
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[size=4] 'Cause their G-d said 'Thou Shalt Not Murder!'[/size=4] That other guy apparently dropped the ball on the 'thou shalt not murder' part of his book! Eric The(OtherwiseWe'dBeHearingFromTheMullahsOther­wise!)Hun[>]:)]
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Every day I thank God for allowing me to be a simple Agnostic and without the baggage of the past. Eric, please explain the difference between murder by a suicide bomber and murder by gunfire and/or rockets from an Apache ?
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 4:49:09 PM EDT
5subslr5, You are comparing apples and oranges.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 5:01:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: 5subslr5, You are comparing apples and oranges.
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No, no I don't believe that's so.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 5:27:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Two American-made Apache helicopter gunships circled overhead this afternoon, pouring rockets and gunfire into the casbah...
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Paid for by the American taxpayer and made in America. Must make you proud Eric ? Wonder why the Israelis don't use suicide bombers ?
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It warms my heart to hear of some of our finest hardware being put to such good and use and to know that it's in such fine hands.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 5:36:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Every day I thank God for allowing me to be a simple Agnostic and without the baggage of the past.
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Ha ha ha [size=3]ha ha [/size=3][size=4]ha ha [/size=4][size=5]ha ha [/size=5][size=6]ha ha [b]HA HA HA!!![/b][/size=6] Ho boy, I needed that laugh!
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 6:00:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BlammO:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Every day I thank God for allowing me to be a simple Agnostic and without the baggage of the past.
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Ha ha ha [size=3]ha ha [/size=3][size=4]ha ha [/size=4][size=5]ha ha [/size=5][size=6]ha ha [b]HA HA HA!!![/b][/size=6] Ho boy, I needed that laugh!
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Perhaps one day you will be one of them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 6:16:47 PM EDT
I'm sorry, [b]5subslr5[/b] I honestly don't mean you any disrespect. It's just that your means of excusing yourself defies God's call to you.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 6:21:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BlammO: I'm sorry, [b]5subslr5[/b] I honestly don't mean you any disrespect. It's just that your means of excusing yourself defies God's call to you.
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No problem. Maybe some us hear God's voice in a different way. I also meant no disrespect to those who believe differently from me.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 6:25:10 PM EDT
ARAFATs Documents: [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/661101/posts[/url] Bulldog OUT
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 6:36:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389: As for "rigging" things, apparently the Pals want to learn about MLRS and tube arty next. Air delivered cluster munitions would also deal with this "threat" quite well. Perhaps they will find out in Phase 2.
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Firefinder would be great if the Israeli FDCs and gun crews are fast enough to take advantage of it - they could have a fire mission headed out to the guns before the first enemy round hit the ground, and DPICM coming down on ragheads 20-30 seconds later. Even if the mortar crew is gone by that time, the mortar itself will probably be damaged or destroyed. I'd love to see us selling them MLRS, though (or have we?) It's a little slower to fire than tube artillery, but you can blanket a much larger area and catch them as they're running from their gun or mortar LOL.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 7:02:19 PM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
The two latter adds were a standard part of Nazi propaganda used against the Jews prior to and during WW II. History repeating.
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The only history that I see being repeated here is that the Israeli IDF is kicking the sh|t out of their enemies. [b]I love it![/b] You'd think those other fellows would learn one day, but, who knows? And if you really want to read Nazi propaganda reprinted and hear Nazi propaganda rebroadcast these days you need to hang out on the Palestinian websites. They are unbelievable! I swear by the Prophet's beard that the next time we see Yasser 'Bring Me A Wet Washcloth' Arafat walking across the smoldering courtyard of his demolished 'compound' in Ramallah, he will be toting the newest edition of 'The Secret Protocols of the Elders of Zion' underneath his arm.
Eric, please explain the difference between murder by a suicide bomber and murder by gunfire and/or rockets from an Apache ?
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Me? Explain to an 'Old Salt' such as yourself the difference between premeditated murder and combat? Not likely! I'm certain that [u]you[/u] could explain the difference to me in spades! Were you stationed aboard a boomer or a fast attack sub? Or is that still classified? Well, if you were stationed on a boomer and you and the guys got to talking about how those Russkis were always messing around with the US and how they were no good piles of whale sh|t in the bottom of the Marianas Trench and so just for spite you went ahead a launched a medium-sized nuclear missile at the Soviet Union...that would be murder. If you were stationed on a fast-attack sub and you discovered that Soviet subs were firing on and destroying US boomer subs in some sort of preemptive strike against the US and you and the guys got a Soviet attack sub on your sonar and sent it to the bottom...that would be combat! Same with Israel! Israeli use of Apache gunships and missiles seeme to be doing a crack job at taking out terrorist POSs on the West Bank with a minimum amount of dead civilians! [b]That, Sir, is combat![/b] Eric The(PreachingToTheChoir,Right?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 1:42:49 AM EDT
Ah, the Hun [img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img] is happy...
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 4:33:13 AM EDT
I am ecstatic, [b]shooter69[/b]! There was a slight 'speed bump' in my Highway of Hun Happiness when Pres. Bush called for the 'immediate withdrawal' of Israeli troops from the West Bank. As if there is some sort of 'time limits' to be placed on a nation's defense of itself! Try imposing a 'time limit' on the US mission to capture/punish Bin Laden and to complete its War on Terrorism, and I am certain that Bush will remind you that he had said that the endeavor would be long and arduous. Well, Pres. Bush, maybe the Israelis think that their 'War on Terrorism' is just as near and dear to them as the US's is to us. Maybe they believe that there is no 'time limits' on seeking justice? As you do. BTW, I thank you for bringing the 'smiley-yid' to my attention! Not that I have any plans on changing my Board name to [b]'Eric The Yid'[/b] or anything, but my Israeli cousin, [b]Ezra Ben Hun[/b], seems to be amused with this smiley-yid![img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img] Eric The(EasilyAmusedFamilyOfHuns)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 4:49:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 7:36:03 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Hey, [b]subsailor[/b], here's a sample of just how good those damn Israelis have gotten with those US-made helicopters and missiles: [size=4]'Unprecedented revenge' say Hamas[/size=4] Agence France-Presse 06apr02 THE armed wing of radical Islamic militant group Hamas vowed today an unprecedented revenge against Israel [b]after six of its fighters were killed in an Israeli missile strike.[/b] "It will be a new kind of punishment this time, of an unaccustomed type that will shake their entity and destroy its pillars," the Ezzedine Al-Qassam Brigades said. [b]Six Hamas members were killed yesterday in an Israeli helicopter strike, including Qais Idwan, said to have masterminded the deaths of 26 people in a suicide attack last week now called the "Passover Massacre".[/b] [[b]Editor's Note:[/b] Damn those Israelis are not only good, but pretty damn quick, too! [img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img]] Idwan was a top chief in the Ezzedine Al-Qassam Brigades. [b]Also killed in the missile strike was Said Abu Awad, the militant who conceived and helped the group build its home-made Katyusha-style Qassam-2 rockets.[/b] [b][Shazzam!][/b] Israel considers the use of the Qassam-2s, which have a range of about 6km, a serious escalation in armed operations against the country, and has warned if one of those rockets ever hit a populated area its retaliation would be radical. "Our fighters received the martyrdom they wanted after having trained dozens of engineers in different (weapons) areas and gave them intensive military training to give Sharon and his stupid government a lesson that they will understand," the statement said, referring to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. The Brigades stressed the killings would not prevent it from carrying out new attacks and that the "idiot Sharon should have understood the lesson after the assassination of Abu Hannud". The Israelis killed Hannud, another top Hamas military leader, in a helicopter strike on November in the West Bank, triggering a wave of deadly suicide attacks by the radical Islamic group. See article at:[url]http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4086980%5E1702,00.html[/url] So there you have it! We are now presented with that age old question - which came first, the terror attack or the Israeli Apache? Eric The(Well,WeShouldAgreeThatTheApacheWillAlways­ComeLast,AndIsraelWillBeLeftStanding)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:06:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: There was a slight 'speed bump' in my Highway of Hun Happiness when Pres. Bush called for the 'immediate withdrawal' of Israeli troops from the West Bank. Eric The(EasilyAmusedFamilyOfHuns)Hun[img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img]
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And ANOTHER SPEED BUMP when the Israelis' plans to widen this conflict into a regional or WORLD WAR were frustrated! DaMan
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 9:29:27 AM EDT
See, [b]subsailor[/b], I knew you could teach an Old Hun new tricks![:D] But what about my examples of 'murder' and 'death by combat'? I need your counsel on that! Eric The('IfNotForTheCourageOfTheFearlessCrew,TheM­innowWouldBeLost'-BalladOfGilligan'sIsland)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 10:06:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: There was a slight 'speed bump' in my Highway of Hun Happiness when Pres. Bush called for the 'immediate withdrawal' of Israeli troops from the West Bank. Eric The(EasilyAmusedFamilyOfHuns)Hun[img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img]
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And ANOTHER SPEED BUMP when the Israelis' plans to widen this conflict into a regional or WORLD WAR were frustrated! DaMan
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Would a regional or world war be justified if not fighting one led to the destruction of the USA? If so, why should Israel act any differently than we would? Make no mistake about it, this is not about a "Palestinian homeland" but about a desire to wipe the country of Israel and its people off the face of the earth. Here in America, 19 foreigners come into the country, hijack 4 jetliners, and crash them into 3 buildings killing thousands of innocent people, and we (rightly) attack a small country half a world away because its leaders are tight with the man who gave the orders and supplied the money. BUT, Israel is supposed to give in to the demands of terrorists in her midst who are killing innocent people and taking orders and receiving money from other countries? If a course of action is justified when WE take it, then it's justified when someone ELSE takes it in a similar scenario. The "Palestinians" are just fortunate that I'm not running the show in Israel, because then they'd find out what true state-sponsored terror is. As the saying goes, "play the pussy, get fucked."
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 10:35:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 10:51:08 AM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: But what about my examples of 'murder' and 'death by combat'? Eric The('IfNotForTheCourageOfTheFearlessCrew,TheM­innowWouldBeLost'-BalladOfGilligan'sIsland)Hun[img]http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/smilies/happyyid.gif[/img]
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Dear Eric, I know you're having a "bad hair day(week/month/year)".... and I sincerely sympathize with you. [:P] The Israelis, (our billion dollar babies), are being reigned in and US troops are not (yet) being deployed as peacekeepers to the region. That must be a bummer for you! Those poor Israeli reservists are suffering EXTREME hardships! WAAAAH! [>(] I guess the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has been put "on hold" for the time being. Israel may EVEN have to reach some kind of ACCOMMODATION with those "rag heads"! Boy, that sucks! [>Q] DaMan [:P] PS - Thank-you for your "service" to [OUR] country! [V]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 11:08:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 11:10:29 AM EDT by DaMan]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Note what a 'stun grenade' can do to your typical liberal media cameraman outside of Arafat's compound in Ramallah! [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020405/capt.1018028067.mideast_israel_palestinians_xjd205.jpg[/img] Eric The(That'sGottaLeaveAMark!)Hun
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Eric, why did you brand this guy as "liberal"? Because he wants to record what the Israelis are doing in Ramallah???!!! DaMan PS - Thank-you, Eric, for YOUR service to OUR country!
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:23:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: [b]Now the king told the boogie men You have to let that raga drop The oil down the desert way Has been shakin' to the top The sheik he drove his Cadillac He went a' cruisnin' down the ville The muezzin was a' standing On the radiator grille CHORUS The shareef don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah The shareef don't like it Rockin' the Casbah Rock the Casbah By order of the prophet We ban that boogie sound Degenerate the faithful With that crazy Casbah sound But the Bedouin they brought out The electric camel drum The local guitar picker Got his guitar picking thumb As soon as the shareef Had cleared the square They began to wail CHORUS Now over at the temple Oh! They really pack 'em in The in crowd say it's cool To dig this chanting thing But as the wind changed direction The temple band took five The crowd caught a wiff Of that crazy Casbah jive CHORUS The king called up his jet fighters He said you better earn your pay Drop your bombs between the minarets Down the Casbah way As soon as the shareef was Chauffeured outta there The jet pilots tuned to The cockpit radio blare As soon as the shareef was Outta their hair The jet pilots wailed CHORUS He thinks it's not kosher Fundamentally he can't take it. You know he really hates it.[/b] ---Clash, Combat Rock
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LMFAO Gotta love the CLASH [u]Rockin the casbah[/u] on Combat Rock BTW Actor Omar Shareef lives in Egypt. Lol.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:41:53 PM EDT
Keep rollin' IDF, keep rollin' Bulldog OUT
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:50:19 PM EDT
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020328/capt.1017349218.mideast_israel_palestinians_nn105.jpg[/img] [b]DaMan[/b], the Chairman seeks your good counsel and advice on handling the Israelis who are beating the crap outta his forces. He's also looking for a foot rub. So don't forget the patchouli oil! Nothing he hates worse than a dry rub! Eric The(GladToHelpTheGoodChairmanOut,Eh?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:50:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: See, [b]subsailor[/b], I knew you could teach an Old Hun new tricks![:D] But what about my examples of 'murder' and 'death by combat'? I need your counsel on that! Eric The('IfNotForTheCourageOfTheFearlessCrew,TheM­innowWouldBeLost'-BalladOfGilligan'sIsland)Hun[>]:)]
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Their is little difference between Sharon and Arafat. Both are murderers.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:53:43 PM EDT
Baloney! [b]subsailor[/b], you've been reading too many posts by DaMan! Who did Gen Sharon murder? We all know who Arafat's murdered! Eric The(NeedAList?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:59:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Baloney! [b]subsailor[/b], you've been reading too many posts by DaMan! Who did Gen Sharon murder? We all know who Arafat's murdered! Eric The(NeedAList?)Hun[>]:)]
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Now approximately ten Palestinians dead for every Israeli. The dead on both sides are mainly the innocents. Both Sharon and Arafat are murderers. I would kill both and be done with this phase.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:06:40 PM EDT
[b]A True Story Concerning Chairman Arafat[/b] In 1973, members of Arafat's Black September group in Khartoum, Sudan, captured five diplomats, including the American Ambassador Cleo A. Noel and outgoing Charge d'Affairs G. Curtis Moore. The Palestinians said they wanted to exchange them for Sirhan Sirhan -- the Palestinian who killed Sen. Robert Kennedy, as well as imprisoned PLO members in Israel, Jordan and West Germany. (Think about that fact for a minute, and what it means. Sirhan said he killed Robert F. Kennedy because he was pro-Israel. [b]To the Palestinians, Sirhan Sirhan was -- and remains -- a hero.)[/b] [b]A few days later, the Sudanese government announced that Noel and Moore were dead. The murderers surrendered to the Sudanese government. [u]They said that the order to kill as well as to surrender came from Arafat's Fatah headquarters in Beirut[/u].[/b] Sudanese President Gaafar Mohammed Nimeiri went public at once with evidence that the operation had been run out of the Fatah Khartoum office. Like Bin Laden today, Yasser Arafat denied any involvement. But Arafat's voice was recorded on tape at the time -- personally ordering the murder of the two American diplomats. So why has Arafat not been prosecuted? Because the tape with Arafat's voice has conveniently disappeared. Thirteen years later, on February 12, 1986, forty-seven senators addressed a letter about this matter to then-Attorney General Edwin Meese. It said "We understand that the Department of Justice has received information linking PLO leader Yasser Arafat to the brutal 1973 slaying(s)." The senators understood that "the U.S. government has a tape recording of an intercepted message in which Arafat allegedly ordered the assassination (s)." The letter noted, "One month after the slayings, the Washington Post reported that according to Western intelligence sources, Arafat was in the Black September radio command center in Beirut when the message to execute three Western diplomats was sent out. "The Washington Post also reported that Arafat's voice was monitored and recorded. According to the Post' s sources, Arafat personally congratulated the guerrillas after the execution. "These allegations, if substantiated, leave little doubt that a warrant for Arafat's arrest should be issued, and a criminal indictment filed against him. "To allow other factors to enter into this decision is to make a mockery of our laws and our stated commitment to eradicate terrorism. "We understand that this matter is presently under review at the Justice Department. We urge the Justice Department to assign the highest priority to completing this review, and to issue an indictment of Yasser Arafat if the evidence so warrants." That no element of justice has been brought to this matter disturbs James Welsh greatly. Welsh was a Signals Intelligence analyst for the National Security Agency 27 years ago. He was one of two persons responsible for the analysis of PLO communications. He has tried to do something about it. Welsh wrote last year that at the end of February 1973, "a NSA field station informed us that it had intercepted a conversation between Yasser Arafat and Salah Khalaf, the leaders of Fatah, in Beirut and Khalil al-Wazir in Khartoum discussing preparations for an imminent operation in Khartoum." - continued -
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:07:44 PM EDT
Welsh said the information went through channels -- and reached the US. Embassy in Khartoum via the State Department within three hours. On the morning of March 1, 1973, Welsh was shocked to learn that the American diplomats were being "held hostage at the Saudi Arabian Embassy by members of the Black September Organization, a Palestinian terrorist group whose credits included the Munich Olympic Games Massacre." How could this be? he wondered. The warning had been sent. The diplomats would never have gone to the Saudi reception under these conditions. And then the news came that the diplomats were dead. Only a few people knew of the warning message, but Welsh and his co-worker began to make inquiries. They learned that a State Department watch officer had downgraded this urgent warning message to a routine cable. It arrived two days after the murders. Welch felt particularly outraged, because he had spent four years tracking Arafat's men and at the moment of his greatest intelligence coup against them, someone in the State Department "had pooh-poohed our work and cost the lives of two US diplomats." Welsh wanted to confront the person to find out why she had done this -- but was told that he should shut up or lose his clearance and get ready for Fleet Oiler duty within 48 hours. He gave in. Over the next week, Welsh's group awaited the arrival of the field intercept tapes and transcriptions. And they waited. Finally he asked about them and was told, "Oh, they've been looked at and there isn't much there." Another shock to Welsh. He wondered, "Then, how could the field guys have given us all this detailed information that we based the warning message on and which in fact occurred two days later? Something was not right. "In addition, our folders with all our materials of the hostage crisis were never returned to us from the higher levels to which they had gone during the crisis. We in effect had nothing now of this affair. "The cover-up had started. I should have gone to Congress 27 years ago." Richard Nixon was president at that time. Welsh charges that Nixon and his advisers were fearful of scandal. He also charges that the warning message was collected at NSA and removed from the analytical departments where it would normally have been analyzed. In addition, all existing copies of the cable sent belatedly to the US Embassy in Khartoum were collected and destroyed there, per instructions from a high State Department level or the White House. There would be no embarrassment due to discovery of the delayed warning. Also destroyed, according to Welsh, were at least two foreign intelligence agencies' copies of the Fatah communications, which they turned over to the US government at the time of the affair. Thus, when Congress requested then Attorney General Meese to investigate the matter of Yasser Arafat's direct complicity in these murders, all evidence had been destroyed -- and the cover-up was continued -- to protect those who had initiated it thirteen years before. - continued -
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:08:23 PM EDT
[b]Welsh maintains that subsequent administrations knew of Arafat's voice on the tapes, "and have chosen, for political reasons, to turn a blind eye to the direct guilt of Yasser Arafat in the cold blooded murders of Noel and Moore."[/b] Welsh has written elsewhere, "The tapes were made, National Security Agency possessed them, and there never was any doubt when I was there, that it was Arafat's voice directing the operation from initial intercept on February 28 to its end on March 2." The sources for the truth on this matter are still with us. Welsh knows who in the State Department downgraded the message. Welsh wrote that they could be called to testify before Congress. Having gotten away the the murder of Americans once, is it any wonder that Yasser Arafat does it again and again? Fast forward to 1983 when 241 US Marines were blown up in their barracks in Beirut. At the time, Newsweek magazine claimed that Arafat was responsible for supplying the explosive material. As for the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, Moshe Peled, Israel's Deputy Education Minister in the Netanyahu Administration, told CIA representatives in early 1997 that Israeli intelligence had concrete evidence of Arafat's involvement What's more, the official Iranian Government newspaper E-kihan, also said that Arafat was involved planning the first World Trade Center bombing. Welsh sums up the question of Yasser Arafat's immunity from prosecution for the murder of Americans: "I often wonder why Yasser Arafat's image and continued presence on the world scene is more important than simple justice." Eric The(Ya'See?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:12:24 PM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
The dead on both sides are mainly the innocents.
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You will simply have to show me that - I do not for a moment believe that the Israelis mainly kill Palestinian civilians! C'mon [b]subsailor[/b], don't succumb to the dreaded [b]DaMan Disease![/b] Which is sometimes referred to as the [b]'Hoof in Mouth Disease[/b].'[:D] Eric The(IfYou'dLike,I'llGetAList)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:19:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 8:25:46 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Eric, both Sharon and Arafat are murderers. Please remember that I care nothing for either Israel or the Palestinian Territories. I care primarily about what is good for my country - The United States. I believe that in time you'll recognize what Sharon will cost Israel. What's happening now is not good for either side but I believe Israel will be more adversely affected. Before Israel could lay some claim to the high-ground but not now. Bush spent thirty minutes chewing out Sharon's dumb ass in a conversation that was termed "brutal." I doubt if he did much good.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:24:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from 5subslr5 -
The dead on both sides are mainly the innocents.
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You will simply have to show me that - I do not for a moment believe that the Israelis mainly kill Palestinian civilians! C'mon [b]subsailor[/b], don't succumb to the dreaded [b]DaMan Disease![/b] Which is sometimes referred to as the [b]'Hoof in Mouth Disease[/b].'[:D] Eric The(IfYou'dLike,I'llGetAList)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric, pause for just one moment and ask yourself how you would prove that Israel does not kill primarily civilians ? Arafat and Sharon are both murderers and while Arafat has shown himself to be cunning at times Sharon is simply an idiot. I could easily kill both and go home for a nice 'pork' roast.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:30:55 PM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
Before Israel could lay some claim to the high-ground but not now.
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Why not now, [b]subsailor[/b], Israel is not bombing civilian areas from the air as the US did in Afghanistan! There are approximately 5,000 dead Afghan civilians from the US air war against the Taliban. None of whom had anything to do with the events of Sept 11th other than reside in the country in which the Mastermind of the crime happened to also reside. What makes the US able to do such things in your mind, while denying the same right to defend itself to Israel? I certainly do not understand your antipathy towards Israel. It's the only nation in the world that seems to always have to justify its self-defense!
Bush spent thirty minutes chewing out Sharon's dumb ass in a conversation that was termed "brutal." I doubt if he did much good.
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Well, I haven't seen that story, but if Bush or his aides sent out the word that he busted Sharon's chops, just how do you think that is of any help whatsoever in this situation? It won't slow Israel down, but it may encourage more Palestinian resistance! In the end, [b]subsailor[/b], you may get your wish to see a separation of these nations - Israel may tell Bush and his advisors to 'Go to Hell'! And I can't say that I would blame them at all! You do hope that we make Bin Laden pay for his sins one day, do you not? Eric The(WellArafat'sDayIsComingAsWell)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:38:07 PM EDT
Both Israel and the Palestinians see themselves as defenders of their people. The Palestinians resent the Israeli occupation. The Israelis resent the Palestinian suicide attacks. This is the moral equivalency that you seek. (Not really of course.) Remember I care nothing about either but unfortunately the Israeli action will soon negatively impact my country. In fact that has already begun.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:43:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: In the end, [b]subsailor[/b], you may get your wish to see a separation of these nations - Israel may tell Bush and his advisors to 'Go to Hell'! You do hope that we make Bin Laden pay for his sins one day, do you not? Eric The(WellArafat'sDayIsComingAsWell)Hun[>]:)]
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My wish is correct - my fond wish is even more correct. (Thought I'd just leave your Osama Bin sentence there just for filler. Oh, I would 'do' Osama with a killer nail clipper. Slow but not easy.)
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 9:03:42 PM EDT
As a point of information there were nowhere near 5,000 Afghan civilians killed by the US bombing. That number was conjured up by Marc Herold, a lefty New Hampshire academic who double and triple counted bogus reports from Taliban-controlled sources. Most of the more reliable estimates put the number at somewhere around 1,000.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 9:11:02 PM EDT
OK, so let's assume a 1,000, still more dead civilians than have been killed by the Israelis in this Intifadah! Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 9:33:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: The Palestinians resent the Israeli occupation.
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The Israelis aren't occupying Palestinian land. though. The land is [b]Israeli[/b] land, after all. But, just for a moment, let's assume you're right. [b]Jordan[/b] was also formed out of Palestine, so why aren't the "Palestinians" also causing trouble there? Simple - [b]they aren't in it for a homeland, they're in it for the sole purpose of destroying the nation of Israel and its people[/b]. The truly ironic part of all this is the "Palestinians" are treated BETTER in Israel than in ANY Arab country.
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