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Posted: 4/3/2002 9:58:41 PM EDT
Sence this whole 911/middle east thing has went on now getting stonger the thing that worrys me is china I havent heard to much about them and they seem to be reasonably in between at this point. If they chose one side or the other some is really going to get screwed. Im afraid it could be us I get the feeling that china wants to be on the top of the hill and I think they know they can givin the right time to do so.We have a great nation and a hi-tech armed forces but that doesnt match chinas volume. We cant use enough smart bombs and plane attacks to syop them like we do in the middle east. For example. In WW2 the germans had superior tanks than we did we beat them by one factor volume they produced hundreds we made thousands. If you get enough of something you will win Our army just isnt that big. I dont think we colud produce weapons fast enough
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:01:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:04:08 PM EDT
Yeah they wouldn't even have missiles that could hit Taiwan if it wasn't for clinton. Benjamin
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:09:09 PM EDT
I'm not worried about a direct attack from China. What worries me, is what will we do when China invades Taiwan? It probably won't go nuclear, but it sure would get messy.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:19:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2002 10:41:36 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Hey hey hey,Dont underestimate the Big Red! I spent three months there last summer,mostlly in Shenyang (closes major chinese city to N.Korea)and Beijing.Also spent alot of time studying Chinese military hardware. They have alot more newer technology than we think.They also are updating many many of thier fighting tactics in all military branches and most of them exactly the same we use. I'm not saying they would lose,but it would be a bloody battle at the least,I also would conclude that we wouldnt have much of a chance if we didnt use most if not all of the US allies to help us in a ground war on thier turf.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:39:34 PM EDT
"Thank God for the ICBM" Polaris is your buddy. No need for volume with Polaris. Large concentrations of china's military will meet Polaris and will not like it. Polaris vs. China = No China China has to face Polaris in order to invade USA. Polaris vs. China = No China China has to cross BIG pond to invade USA. Polaris vs. China = No China Simple math the Chinese understand. Polaris vs. China = No China The Chinese aren't suicidal.They know that China vs. Polaris = no China Don't fear China,Polaris is your Buddy. Thank God for Polaris.I DO.(and I sleep well at night because of Polaris) Polaris is your 24/7 watchdog Buddy. No army in the WORLD can defeat Polaris.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:42:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MAC-DADDY: "Thank God for the ICBM"
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AMEN!
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:43:18 PM EDT
Take away the rice and you defeat the Chinese military and communist machine, only after they attack Taiwan and South Korea. Take away the cash and they go nuts and attack Taiwan and South Korea via North Korea. Pump the country full of free media access and the communist nightmare slowly comes to an end. I spent 14 months on the Korean Pennisula and dispise the Chicoms. The only way to defeat communism is through the spread of democratic ideals and the toppling of the internal financial infrastructure. We crushed the financial infrastructure of the USSR and spread some ideals in some of the places within the USSR. China will be more difficult. They are getting cash infusions via heavy trade with the west and they have a strangle hold on the mass media. This one will be a long and difficult task. China could never rule the world-they spend too much time looking back to really understand what is going on in front of them. They will only rule themselves until the freedom of ideas takes hold. Oh happy day....
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 11:56:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2002 11:57:50 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
"Ah-so...in America, we have a word for 'Don't Fuck with U.S.A.' --- [b]TRIDENT[/b]. And we aren't talkin' chewing gum !!! edited to pardon my FRENCH.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:08:34 AM EDT
I personally am scared of circus clowns.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:09:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: "Ah-so...in America, we have a word for 'Don't Fuck with U.S.A.' --- [b]TRIDENT[/b]. And we aren't talkin' chewing gum !!! edited to pardon my FRENCH.
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Oh yeah!TRIDENT is Polaris' BIG BROTHER!! They are BOTH looking after our needs!lol 2 against 1(we are the 2)I like those odds! Stack the deck in our favor!THAT'S the good stuff!!
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 1:16:20 AM EDT
This really begs the question of, Will the US defend Taiwan with the ultimate weapons that is any nation's LAST resort? Sorry, but I think not. We have already agreed that Taiwan is part of Greater China. We just quibble on how that reunification should take place. China has made it clear that settling the Taiwan issue favorably a CRITICAL national security issue for years now. It is several notches down on ours. If it comes to a shooting war, I won't be so bold as to predict the outcome. I suspect it would follow the lines of what happened in the Falklands, with a limited anti-shipping and full airwar around Taiwan. I am not partial to Red China and have several Taiwanese friends, one of them a very close friend. This is the way I see it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 3:40:07 AM EDT
Not to worry Shooter.....They are paper tiger. They will test out the water and the U.S reaction by invading Taiwan first.....And That will be their biggest mistake. The Taiwanese are no push over, they will defend their island at all cost. China might have go to use nuke but I doubt that.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:10:11 AM EDT
China might have go to use nuke but I doubt that.
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I wonder if Taiwan has any nukes. They're at least as technologically sophisticated as South Africa was during their nuclear program.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:16:51 AM EDT
China has 250 million unemployeed comrades. Within 10 years the communist party will collapse just like the Soviets. The rot has already taken root. However I don't know what desperate moves they will make on the way down.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:18:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 4:19:21 AM EDT by satcong]
[b]Wooooo-Hooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!, POLARIS!!! Yeahhhhh! I love you man! POLARIS rocks!!!!![/b] [%(] Dear Lord, Thank you for giving us POLARIS!
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:37:34 AM EDT
The real worry in China *right* now is the serious lack of water. If anything is going to set them off it is the Chineese looking for territories with water.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:33:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: The real worry in China *right* now is the serious lack of water. If anything is going to set them off it is the Chineese looking for territories with water.
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Don't worry hielo my man,Polaris is here! Polaris vs. thirsty chinese = no thirsty chinese Polaris = water conservation..problem solved! Sleep well,my friend.BTW,TRIDENT can do this too!lol
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:45:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:54:16 AM EDT
Taiwan will fight like a rabid dog against China - but they really have no chance. Most Taiwanese truly love their freedom and will fight for it as we would. I just wonder how long it will be before China makes it's "power" move.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 5:56:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: I personally am scared of circus clowns.
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You beat me to it. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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Polaris is a little excessive for circus clowns answer:RPG RPG vs. circus clowns = alot of dead clowns Sleep well.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:00:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TylerDurden: Taiwan will fight like a rabid dog against China - but they really have no chance. Most Taiwanese truly love their freedom and will fight for it as we would. I just wonder how long it will be before China makes it's "power" move.
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Hey man you ain't paying attention! Nukes vs.China=a safe Taiwan you need some peaceful sleep too!Sleep well.lol
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:03:47 AM EDT
We might use Nukes to save our ass, but we won't use them to save Taiwan, IMO.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:09:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TylerDurden: We might use Nukes to save our ass, but we won't use them to save Taiwan, IMO.
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Doesn't Taiwan have thier OWN nukes?If not they need to buy some.lol
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:12:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TylerDurden: We might use Nukes to save our ass, but we won't use them to save Taiwan, IMO.
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When we dumped Taiwan in favor of recognizing China, we sealed Taiwan's fate. Now we only wait for 'when' China makes their move. (I last lived in Taiwan over 12 yrs. ago but even then resentment of the U.S. and possible alignment with China was beginning. Taiwan was moving much production from Taiwan to the Chinese mainland and to Malaysia.) No, we will not use nukes to save Taiwan.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:16:04 AM EDT
I am not worried about China at this point, pending further developments.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:17:03 AM EDT
Hey!lolAre you sleepin on the job?lol WTB:taiwanese looking to buy a few good nukes... "any offers taken"
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:18:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: [b]Wooooo-Hooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!, POLARIS!!! Yeahhhhh! I love you man! POLARIS rocks!!!!![/b] [%(] Dear Lord, Thank you for giving us POLARIS!
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satcong, I'm so old that I made the first Polaris patrol in the Pacific - we departed Guam on 12/24/64. That sub was the USS Daniel Boone SSBN629. Interestingly it was the Soviets and not China that attempted to track us. As I recall it took us about 30 minutes to quiet down and lose the tail.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:19:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: I am not worried about China at this point, pending further developments.
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See,RikWriters' got the right idea.lol sleep well my friend,Polaris (your buddy) is watching over you.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:22:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By satcong: [b]Wooooo-Hooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!, POLARIS!!! Yeahhhhh! I love you man! POLARIS rocks!!!!![/b] [%(] Dear Lord, Thank you for giving us POLARIS!
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satcong, I'm so old that I made the first Polaris patrol in the Pacific - we departed Guam on 12/24/64. That sub was the USS Daniel Boone SSBN629. Interestingly it was the Soviets and not China that attempted to track us. As I recall it took us about 30 minutes to quiet down and lose the tail.
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I see that "Polaris" is catching on.lol BTW,THAT(sub chase) must have been very intense!
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:23:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: I am not worried about China at this point, pending further developments.
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Rik, China scares the hell out of me. Today ? No, but tomorrow absolutely. In the U.S. our companies are worrying about next quarters earnings. China is planning the next 25 years. Worse China has quietly embraced a form of capitalism while appearing to be completely communistic.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:27:07 AM EDT
I agree with 5subslr5. 10 to 20 years from now, things will be very different.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:30:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MAC-DADDY:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By satcong: [b]Wooooo-Hooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!, POLARIS!!! Yeahhhhh! I love you man! POLARIS rocks!!!!![/b] [%(] Dear Lord, Thank you for giving us POLARIS!
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satcong, I'm so old that I made the first Polaris patrol in the Pacific - we departed Guam on 12/24/64. That sub was the USS Daniel Boone SSBN629. Interestingly it was the Soviets and not China that attempted to track us. As I recall it took us about 30 minutes to quiet down and lose the tail.
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I see that "Polaris" is catching on.lol BTW,THAT(sub chase) must have been very intense!
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MAC, the Sub Service does a fine job of training all sub sailors. Since the Boone was doing a 'first' that crew was probably a small notch above the average. We simply knew that the Soviets couldn't track us for long. (Please don't read arrogance but confidence in my words.) Takes about 5 min. or so to get the big suckers down and trim - another ten minutes or so to locate a nice thermal layer - after that adios mutherfluckers !
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:33:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TylerDurden: I agree with 5subslr5. 10 to 20 years from now, things will be very different.
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And Polaris will STILL be there.Unlike a car that is driven everyday and wears out,Polaris remains NIB(and let's pray it stays that way) 25 to 30yrs,Polaris will STILL be our buddy,TRIDENT too.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:44:15 AM EDT
I think it is very unfortunate that we don't support Taiwan. In my opinion, Taiwan is no different than the U.S. was 200 yrs. ago.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:50:14 AM EDT
Polaris wasn't born that far back.So.... neither were M-16s' or AKs'.alot has changed in 200yrs.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:52:21 AM EDT
Maybe we ARE supporting Taiwan. Wouldn't the chicoms be surprised if they invaded Taiwan, expecting a cakewalk, and Taiwan popped a nuke that they had "somehow acquired"? -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:00:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kill-9: Maybe we ARE supporting Taiwan. Wouldn't the chicoms be surprised if they invaded Taiwan, expecting a cakewalk, and Taiwan popped a nuke that they had "somehow acquired"? -kill-9
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NOW yer talkin'!lol Nuke'em
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:08:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 7:10:43 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By kill-9: Maybe we ARE supporting Taiwan. Wouldn't the chicoms be surprised if they invaded Taiwan, expecting a cakewalk, and Taiwan popped a nuke that they had "somehow acquired"? -kill-9
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Although any invasion of Taiwan by China is likely to begin with missile attacks I don't believe China will go nuclear and I don't believe Taiwan has nuclear capability. Most likely China will put pressure on Taiwan from time-to-time but simply wait. Since we severed diplomatic relations more and more people of Taiwan are slowly, slowly beginning to desire formal reconnection to China. In Taiwan both Chinese (we call this dialect Mandarin) and English are taught in the public schools.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:16:50 AM EDT
The real threat is the tunnel under the Pacific that the Chinese have been digging since 1951... little bastards are underneath Reno,NV right now. If you go into the desert, you can hear them... "skritchskritchskritch -ni hao ma? wo hen hao, ni ne? skritchskritchskritch". keeps me awake worrying... I bet they are in cahoots with a circus clown 5th Column here. Bastards.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:19:28 AM EDT
China is planning the next 25 years.
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That's not such a bad thing if it keeps them from doing something rash. The Chicoms expect that over time, their economic and cultural links with Taiwan will strengthen. If they're patient, they can re-unify without suffering all the economic damage that a war would bring.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 10:56:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: In the U.S. our companies are worrying about next quarters earnings. China is planning the next 25 years.
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The USSR used to plan for the next 25 years too. See what it got them.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:13:18 AM EDT
I don't think there will be a war between the US and china. China is smart, very very smart. They are becoming a economic, scientific and artistic center. They want to become a bigger player in world trade. The US clearly has a healthy respect for China's power as an enemy, and wants to be china's friend (most favorable trade status). China wants to trade with the US and thus wants to be on good terms with us. Friendly relations benefit us both. In case you haven't noticed, many of our most talent engineers and scientists are from China. While currently tenuous, I foresee the relationship between the US and China becoming tighter.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:22:35 AM EDT
Worse China has quietly embraced a form of capitalism while appearing to be completely communistic.
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The two are not compatible. One will win out over the other. My money is on capitalism. So far it's been the winner...
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:28:55 AM EDT
They want to re-annex Taiwan , by their own words they want Taiwan back. So they are modernizing across the board to accomplish this. Benjamin
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:30:28 AM EDT
that pro wrestler china? She scares the shit out of me to man. Fugly!
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:39:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 11:39:55 AM EDT by eswanson]
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 11:42:46 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: In the U.S. our companies are worrying about next quarters earnings. China is planning the next 25 years.
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The USSR used to plan for the next 25 years too. See what it got them.
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Rik, don't work on being a dumb-a$$ as clearly you are not. The Soviet Union used a highly centralized decision making model and planned in 5 yr. increments. (As you well know.) China on the other hand has greatly de-centralized much of the 'business' side of the country while keeping only political and military power highly centralized. China has slowly shifted to an entrepreneurial form of communism. (If we were not speaking of China this would be a contradictory statement.)
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:48:41 AM EDT
I thought we scraped the Polaris, long ago and they were all Trident D models now.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 11:58:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 11:59:07 AM EDT by AndyTN]
All, Maybe - and that's a very BIG maybe - in 20-25 years, the PRC will be able to get a foothold on Taiwan. But it won't be the way that you think. Think economic (as in capitalism) instead of military conquest. If anyone honestly sees the PRC staying a communist/totalitarian government a quarter century from now, you're kidding yourself. There's too much capitalism in the nation now, and it's too late for another Cultural Revolution. China's on its way to the 20th century, and will eventually make its way into the 21st. Between the establishment of Special Economic Zones in the late 80's and the early 90's on the southeastern coast, to the "wow - this isn't what we expected" after Hong Kong came back into the fold, the typical Chinese citizen is more concerned with getting the latest Sony CD player, or designer clothing than he is following the principles of Mao's Little Red Book. Capitalism is on its way in the PRC, and the leadership's terrified. People can buy (and afford) condos and apartments now. Citizens of larger cities have access to virtually the same stuff we do, and their "free market economy" (yeah, a stretch at this time) getting closer to ours each day. Is their military a threat? Depends - if we attack their ass on home turf, sure! Hell, they have 100 million soldiers in the PLA (active and militia). But why the hell would we do that? Can they do force projection? No. They don't have a navy worthy of being called one. Sure, they could nuke the ROC, but they couldn't invade - not enough haulers. Their air force is still a joke, and they'll never catch us in a technology race. I see China coming out of its self-imposed shell sometime within the next 15 to 20 years. Maybe then they'll be ready to put their past behind them, and join the modern world. By the way, a great book on the changing worldwide scene was done by a gent named James Dunnigan about 15 years ago. Called, "A Quick and Dirty Guide to War," he accurately saw the Berlin Wall coming down, the Soviet Union going away, and predicted lots of other things that did indeed happen. It's a very good read, even today.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:02:32 PM EDT
If China does decide to go to war how do you think it'll play out in the beginning? They conquer Taiwan and with the help of North Korea take South Korea and possible even Japan. Maybe lob some stuff our way. What are peoples theories of how the opening onslaught will be, who will be on the defensive and who do you think will help China? And I guess for fun pretend they attacked right now while our military is slightly busy with other stuff and not as strong as it was a decade ago... Chinas navy sucks at the moment right? Or do they even have a navy? Seems to me that people are worried about the size of their army compared to ours but if all they have is an army then they already lost I suppose.
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