So, I suppose Elvis Presley's death was ACTUALLY an Arab assassination plot?? [rolleyes]

Dude, you are employing revisionist history.

American culture existed LONG before Arab attacks on America began.

Arab resentment of America is approx. 30 years old, and is caused by the following:

1. First funding Usama, next the Afghanis against the Russians, and then PULLING that funding (and other US Arab support) and giving the money to israel - their mortal enemy.

2. To a MUCH lesser extent American culture. But do you REALLY think they are burning Elvis in effigy over there? That's fodder for simple minds.

You seem to dismiss our funding the Arabs enemy as almost a non-factor in Arab resentment of America.  If we found out Russia was actually funding a Chinese war against America, I suppose you dismiss that, and say that we should NOT be mad at the Russians, just like you say the Arabs are angered at us because of our music, and NOT because our support of Israel.

Yeah, Arabs hate America cuz of our up-beat music. Do you have ANY idea how STUPID that sounds??

I suppose they offed Buddy Holly too. And Ricky Nelson. And Jimmy Hendrix. And there was Keith Green and Rich Mullins too - Christian musicians. Thye musta DOUBLY hated them - Christian AND American music.[rolleyes]



Puh-lease.

In the interests of full disclosure....

The REAL difference between us (Christians) and those "dead Jews" who didn't know their Messiah is THAT THEY ARE BURNING IN HELL. Whether they knew His actual name or not is IRRELEVANT.

And therein lies my beef with the Israel apologists.

They are SO BUSY screaming for US military and monetary aid, but you almost NEVER hear them telling the Jewish person to REPENT AND BELEIVE on the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of their souls.

Which is more important - their souls, or their land?

By the looks of it, the Israel supporters think the land is more important. And their religion is just a front for their politics.

Their Messiah has already come. A reading of Simeon's testimony will tell you that. You holding out hope for "Another" Messiah is FALSE hope, and is landing Jews in hell, brother. You need to consider what part you are playing in the damnation of their souls.

psssst... garandman, not everyone shares your specific religious beliefs.

Shocking, huh?

Good God, [b]garandman[/b]!

Do you suppose that Simeon and Anna [u]didn't[/u] die before Jesus on the Cross? They are referred to as old and yet Jesus didn't die until approx. thirty-three years later.

How many times must I inform YOU, of all people, that there is ONLY ONE MESSIAH AND HIS NAME IS JESUS!

For Jesus' sake would you stop consigning every Jew you read or hear about to HELL!!!!

If they died before Christ's Death, and they were devout Jews, they are asleep in Abraham's bosom!

If they were members of the early Church, they were most likely devout Jews who believed and accepted Jesus as the Son of God.  Just because they didn't call themselves 'Christians' doesn't mean they weren't saved!

Are you saying that any devout, believing Jew who died before the folks in Antioch called them 'Christians' went to HELL?

[b]Now cut it out![/b]

You are confusing even the very Elect![:D]

Eric The(IfThatWerePossible!)Hun[>]:)]

NO WAY!?!?!????!! really??!?!??!?!?!

Well, that changes everything. If other people don't beleive it, then that makes it UNTRUE, I guess. Is that what yer sayin?? [;)][whacko][;D]

My comment was directed toward the religious Israel supporters who (I presume) hold faith in Christ in common with me.

My hope is that they'll realize that faith in Christ [size=6]IS [/size=6] the hope of Israel - and they'll change their message from "money and munitions for Israel" to "Meet your Messiah, Israel.) For He has ALREADY come.

No, [b]garandman[/b], Jesus is the Hope of the World.

Not just Israel. But I know you knew that, you were simply making another...point.

And you need to worry more about your own countrymen's salvation more than any other group in the World, 'cause they're the ones you've got to live amongst!

Eric The(SaveIsrael,SaveUS)Hun[>]:)]

Using God's name in vain, Eric???

How Talmudic of you.

Please consult the Torah. I do beleive that is prohibited verbage.

"For God will NOT hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain." (Exodus 20)

And I am NOT "confusing" the elect - EVERYTHING I say I CAN back up with Scripture, and 90% of the time HAVE backed up with Scripture.

Even with you spouting lines like "blah blah blah 'Bible quote' blah blah blah" parodying me.

You NEVER respond to my bible verses. I consider that CONCESSION of my Biblical points.

Which puts me on VERY solid ground -  Scripturally.

And that gives you license to MISLEAD Jewish peoples, that the land is their inheritance, almost completely ignoring that Christ should be preached to them? THAT tells you we should be sending money and munitions over there, instead of missionaries????

I NEVER see you advocating Christ being preached to the Jews (until I FORCE you to in a thread like this, kinda by default you advocate the Gospel to the Jew)  NEVER on your own. Never a thread about that, but CRAPLOADS of money and munitions threads. Why is that?? Why money, money, money and NEVER salvation????

Why is it that every time people voice their objection concerning the Jewish power structure in this nation, I have to be reminded of Arab involvement in 9/11, when the two are mutually exclusive. How about before 9/11?

I do not need Apologists for Israel reminding me of Arab involvement in our county's present
terrorist situation. I consider bringing the Arab issue into the argument nothing more than an attempt to shift the argument away from the Israelis sweet heart money grubbing deal they have put in place for themselves.

After this war is over, I think it's time for Americans to demand politicians to start the weaning process to remove the money scheming parasites off our Treasury's teats. (((No interest paid on their yearly stipend that they reinvest in our bonds that we had to borrow and pay interest on in the first place,))) how does one get a deal like that? POWER,INFLUENCE,AND ZIONISM that's how!

You who feel that by supporting Israel with schemed ripped off money brings you closer to Jesus, give twice, once for me, so you can may recieve more of the Lords Blessings. "Now go take on the day.

The United States military is in piss poor shape after the 8 year rape by Bill Clinton. It desperately needs soldiers, weapons, equipment and training. Especially in light of the NEW areas of operation we are likely to face in the next 10 years.

Meanwhile, we are siphoning off 3-4 BILLION dollars every year to Israel that SHOULD be spent on the United States military. If Israel plans on getting "in the shit" with us, and I mean right next to us, then we can supply them on a much lesser level. I think we've given them plenty to fight a war. All they need now is the commitment and willingness to go to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc. and fight RIGHT ALONG SIDE US.

So does ANYONE actually disagree that the 3-4 BILLION should be spent on the US military instead of sending it to Israel?

Don't answer anything else if you ain't gonna answer that.

BS.  The two are not exclusive of each other.  It's got nothing to do with Jesus either.  A lot of people get upset when one uses the term 'anti-Semitic', but I have wonder about people who use words like ZIONISM and capitalize it, no less.  This entire mess with the Palestinians is being orchestrated by Saddam and friends to take the heat off Iraq because they know they are next.

LARRTG   POWER, INFLUENCE, and Zionism

How about the money Larry, talk about important issues that effect the average American taxpayer, not capitalization of words. You trying to avoid the real issue.

Let me provide you the "missing link" of the Israel apologists mentality....

The US military exists (at least in part) for the protection of Israel.

Accordingly, they view any dollars sent to Israel that Israel can use for defense THE SAME AS giving the dollars to our military, as it saves us from having to actually defend Israel with US soldiers and munitions.

Dude - man .....

They (Jewish nationalists) call THEMSELVES "Zionists" ....The learned Elder of Zion. (hence Zionists)

Caps may be overkill, but the monniker is correct.

Is calling a Cherokee indian a "Cherokee" now to be politically in-correct????

Anti_semites on the other hand is a defamatory label used to SHOUT DOWN anyone who disagrees with Israel.

ETH:

zionism= jewish communism... look it up... the jewish state was founded by communist jews hence kibbutzim=commune shall I draw a picture for you???

Should the US do what is "right" in israel? No, we have no more right there than anywhere else. That is a fact. Period. And furthermore if you feel so strongly on our role as police to the world.... I have not heard one word about Zimbabwe where our help is desperately needed, from you... nor about any other place other than barren stretch of garbage land in mideast called israel. Nary a peep. Why is that?

That land is no more holy than my backyard... and God owns it and everything else in this world, all belongs to and comes from him. The land israel occupies is NOT holy.

History Eric has made it quite clear that road down which these 2 peoples are treading is towards disaster, can you stop it? NO, and neither can I. And to be very plain, we have no business nor a commission from the Lord to do so. Show me the scripture if you are so inclined please. You cant. So, to ask what Christ would say is foolishness, where the Word speaks we are to speak, where it is silent we are to be silent, comprende?

The roman holidays are very misleading celebrations and have their very roots in pagan rituals, this is beyond debate. Is it my job to stop people from giving glory to Christ on a particular day? No, but it is not from the Word that this springs, wherein we have all our guidance and the wellspring of our thoughts as Christians. I will Never encourage such, yet nor shall I seek to prevent it. Yet it has no place in the life of a Christian...remember all days belong to the Lord and are holy. None living today know the DAY he was born, NOR the DAY of his passing. Not ONE. To say otherwise is a Lie, and all lies have their source in the father of lies... remember who that is Eric?? Hmmm?

Whether or not the 10% of arabs in israel are Really Christians or whether they are part of the religious world that calls on Christ in vain is of some debate. Those who are my brothers in Christ I will and must ALWAYS care about. And those that know not Christ I care about too.... but the die is now cast and war comes to their doors. As was written of old, the true believers will always be persecuted and unhappily so, they shall. The arabs now go with war to meet the men of israel... and frankly I hope the jews smite them hip and thigh. They are godless as are the jews, but I really dont mind the jews too much until they start giving our technology to the Chinese communists.

EricThe(MissingInAction)Hun [>]:)]

Luv ya babe....

Let's do lunch, eh????

[}:D]

Cont.

Christ will indeed return, and his return to israel is NOT conditional on who owns Jerusalem. Sorry, if zoroastrians ran the joint it would not make a lick of difference to the Lord, you know it and so do I.

True Jews did have a place in our Christian history. But they are GONE! All we have today is a people calling themselves jews. They most certainly are not. Where now Eric are the priests and the high temple??? Ground to dust beneath the feet of centuries. Where are the priests to perform and serve the Jews? Scattered beyond recall in the destruction of the temple by Rome. Not one true Jew remains to this day, the priesthood is DEAD! By Mosaic law the priests must come from the tribe of LEVI and when the temple fell, so too did all records of who belonged to what tribe.  ALL. NO people calling themselves jews today know from WHOM they are descended. Not one. This cannot be disputed. Period. No priests=No Jews

So to ridiculously applaud and wave the flag as you do for israel with some sort of quasi-religious overtones of them being true Jews is very puzzling. Puzzling indeed. They are NOT.

So, should we help these people? NO. Not a bit. They afford us NOTHING, not more than a sinkhole to spill our tax money into... and possibly send our boys to die for.

Should we be in Afghan land? NO. If you know ANY history of the region, you would know the Absolutely intractable nature of the land and the people. Just ask the brits about that place, go ahead. The place should have been carpet bombed flat as a pancake. Men women and children. Not one US soldier should have died. But that will never occur as the "international opionion" is how we now live and breathe. Its a joke. Cover the cities with pig blood.... and sow them with salt. OR!!! Find those who did it and kill them and their families to the last relative.... ALL of them. The way we are proceeding now is not how it should be done. These people are medieval and understand at only that level. Treat them that way and they will get it. Believe me they will.

So, stay on your soapbox about israel all you please.... you have NO scriptural backing for it whatsoever. NONE. And if you are so bloody excited about dead jewish children... how come I dont hear anything about you carping about the Karens of Burma who are Christians and are systematically persecuted by our allies who are buddhists???? Or the untold thousands that die every day of butchery in Africa??? What Eric?, wrong color for you? Got an epicanthic fold to the eyes so they dont count???? Get real sir, those who die in israel today are no more real or valuable than any others that die anywhere else in the world. And yes, die they do.

America should NOT be a policeman to the world. NEVER. Not for anyone save our physical neighbors because it is our backyard. That is the way to go.... limited isolationism. That is how I truly feel. Who shall judge rightly where we should be in the world helping others?? Who Eric ???? Who?

Regards,

Dram

HAHAHAHAHA! Sure it is!

My View: It is not Constitutional to send money to other countries. Any other arguments are irrelevant.

Funny how a group of people who SCREAM about their Constitutional rights being taken away from them re: 2A, make ABSOLUTELY NO ATTEMPT WHATSOEVER to provide Constitutional basis for STEALING my tax dollars from me to provide gov't welfare to foreign nations.

ESPECIALLY when they are against gov't welfare to US CITIZENS. OUR OWN FRIGGEN PEOPLE. But Israel - no problem. Grease the skids, baby.

Like I say over and over, we "conservatives" abandon our principles for political convenience as often as the Leftists do.

Apologies beekeeper, but that's the way I see it.

Yep, I think it is quite strange as well.

Eric the Hun did give me an answer when I ask him something similiar before: Its not pratical to follow the Constitution right now. [rolleyes]

Did you guys see the other thread where Eric criticized US soldiers for being paid while "hanging out" in Germany?

I'm way too pissed.

Post from garandman -

Sorry, but you consider wrongly, I concede nothing. And quite frankly, [b]garandman[/b], I see no point in arguing over scriptures that I know beforehand that you and I will forever be arguing about.

Didn't St. Paul warn us 'O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called'? 1 Timothy 6:20,  and 'But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.' Titus 3:9.

I believe that I am right, you believe that you are right. Period.

Is immersion baptism as an adult believer an absolute requirement of receiving eternal life?

Eric The Hun - [b]Yes![/b] Without any doubt!
garandman - _______________(fill in the blank)

Is communion every Sunday a required sacrament?

Eric The Hun - [b]Yes![/b] Without any doubt!
garandman - _______________(fill in the blank)

Church attendance?
Eric The Hun - [b]Of course, unless you have a very, very good reason otherwise, like working for your family's subsistence[/b]
garandman - _______________(fill in the blank)

Can you lose your salvation?
Eric The Hun - [b]Yep, and with some folks about as easy as losing their keys![/b]
garandman - _______________(fill in the blank)

Did you ever answer me about the two occasions that Jewish crowds sought to kill Jesus - why did they do it? What had occurred?

See. If we disagree on any of the foregoing, it will mean that one of us is correct and the other one not!

I don't wish to engage in such disagreements, for His sake, if not ours.

Eric The(Period!)Hun[>]:)]

No comment on the thread but i would like to say that before i post to this board 5000 times within a year i'll go out an get me a f*ckin life.

Let me add to that. At least "the Hun's" posts are informative an well meaning an not the rantings and ravings of a possible religious lunatic.

I think it wise that we end these vexatious and pointless disputes about Christianity, and just agree to disagree.

We have may more points of agreement that anyone outside the fold could possibly imagine, and yet the single issue of Israel calls for statements and counter-statements that must bring Christ no glory or honor whatsoever!

I know that the Jews in Jerusalem will one day build a Third Temple on the Temple Mount. I know that one day priests will begin temple worship yet again on that mount.

I know that Jesus said to the Jews when He left the first time that their 'House' was left unto them 'desolate' and that upon His death at Calvary, at the very moment of His last words, [red][b]'It is finished'[/b][/red], the [i][b]Shekinah[/b][/i] of the Lord rent the heavy veil that separated the Holy of Holies and left the Temple meaningless in the eyes of the Lord.

Any further sacrifices at Herod's Temple from Pentecost, 32 or 33 AD, until its destruction on [b]Tishah Be'av[/b], the ninth day of the eleventh month of 70 AD, were totally without merit or efficacy in the eyes of the Lord.

But yet there exists a Temple Mount Faithful that seek to rebuild this Temple even at this late date. With all the trimmings of Herod's Temple from that earlier period.

Everything is being gathered together for that day.

The last time this group was reportedly going to the Temple Mount to lay the cornerstone for the next Temple, a riot occurred that is still referred to as the 'Battle for Temple Mount.'

See the story at:[url]http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/security/articles/sec_0064.htm[/url]

One day they might make it.

Eric The(WhoKnows?)Hun[>]:)]

Post from SteyrAUG -

Sorry, but I have already answered your question concerning references to the amount of foreign aid that stays in the US.

Whether you like the evidence or not is immaterial.

You asked for a reference and I gave two, the Cato Institute and the Heritage Foundation.

In the meanwhile, I have asked you at least three times on two threads to respond to my question about amounts of foreign aid given to Great Britain (or the United Kingdom, which is how it's referred to in gov't literature) and France.

I see no response from you SteyrAUG!

So please leave off telling us what we can question and what we must answer!

[b]It's only fair![/b][:D]

Eric The(UnlessYou'veAnsweredItOnAThreadIHaven'tSeen!)Hun[>]:)]

Post from SteyrAUG -

A very valid criticism of wasting taxpayers money on a foreign shore, is it not? You have led the way to this point, SteyrAUG. We're not defending Northern, Western and Central Europe from a Soviet ground invasion any longer are we?

These folks can be trained as well (if not infinitely better!) here in the States as [u]anywhere[/u] else in the rest of the world!

I'll bet you dollars to shekels that folks in the Western States would love to get their economies kick-started with the spending there of what is spent in 'our beloved Germany'!

You know those folks in the West, don't you"

The 'real Americans'!

Or is it just wasteful spending in Israel that you are against? Why are you so in favor of helping Germany out with its meagre economy?[:D]

Get consistent!

Tell me about it!

Eric The(Even-Handed)Hun[>]:)]

You would be a Master of Hyperbole if you didn't sound so stupid!
You need only read the first paragraph of this to understand what I'm saying. (If you have good enough comprehension to understand what you read)
[url]http://www.radioafghanistan.com/forum/articles/music.htm[/url]

You Jehovah's Witnesses' types make me laugh. Next thing I know, you'll go into a "whore on the hill" rant. You read the Bible and ignore the other 30 years of Christ's life. You read the Bible and interpret it thinking you are expert on ancient culture and history. You even misconstrue Paul's word and place it over specific instructions from Christ.
Tell me Dramborleg, why do the moslems hate the Russians? Why do they bomb Russian apartment buildings?

Do you clue what's going on in Yugoslavia?
Do you have a clue what's going on in the Sudan?

I would build you more of a clue, but I don't have time to screw with you anymore.

This bickering does indeed bring us no favor in the sight of Christ.

Neither does a post involving chipped teeth and vibrators Eric.... for shame sir. I rebuke you in public as that which you have done is in public. Think how it is that you promote Christ in one post and discuss "earthy" matters in the next. Por quoi? As guilty as you are of this, so too am I in other ways... I too am not without guilt.

Unfortunately it is due to the grandstanding nature of your israeli crusade that galls some here, as though it were holy writ or some such. That, is where you hit the bumps. If you just blatantly said kill them pally's cuz I hates em' for the scumbags they are... terrorist scumbags and child killing fruitcakes. Then I would be the first to say I am on board. But you try to gloss it with some spiritual brush that does not exist, as though it is a holy thing to defend these jews when it is in fact not. Might makes right and the jews are mighty and so they make that which is righty in that particular 3rd world hellhole. Works for me. That is what the immutable law of history has declared to be truth.

They are not my brothers, nor my neighbors, nor do they respect the Living God and his son. Nor do quite a few in this country, but for the sake of argument we are discussing those in israel right now. A pox on their house I say. But as they are busy killing muslim enemies of this country, hooray for them! But when the shooting stops, and there is peace for a season, then they can go piss up a rope for all I care. Unless we can send them body bags for the dead terr's. That would be righteous indeed (if lined with Betty Crockers spray on pig fat).

So have a care... who cares. Death and disease and destruction are all about us. But just dont drag God into this, that dog just wont hunt.

Dram

Post from dramborleg -

If you are indeed a brother in Christ then I ask your forgiveness as well as His. Problem is that all I know is that I am not perfect. I was wroth with that fellow when I posted that. I will be wroth with that fellow again when I post it again.

But I will be made perfect when He comes back for me.

[u]Provided[/u] He comes back for me.

Now that thou hast pointed out the mote in thine Brother's eye, let us discuss any beams in thine?

Eric The(QuotingScriptureWithTheBestOfThem!)Hun[>]:)]

Post from dramborleg -

I say they [u]are[/u] your brothers and neighbors. At least as much as the Samaritan was the brother and neighbor of the beaten Jew by the wayside in the Lord's parable of The Good Samaritan.

Eric The(Literal)Hun[>]:)]

From Eric The Hun...

[b]I know that the Jews in Jerusalem will one day build a Third Temple on the Temple Mount. I know that one day priests will begin temple worship yet again on that mount.

I know that Jesus said to the Jews when He left the first time that their 'House' was left unto them 'desolate' and that upon His death at Calvary, at the very moment of His last words, 'It is finished', the Shekinah of the Lord rent the heavy veil that separated the Holy of Holies and left the Temple meaningless in the eyes of the Lord.

Any further sacrifices at Herod's Temple from Pentecost, 32 or 33 AD, until its destruction on Tishah Be'av, the ninth day of the eleventh month of 70 AD, were totally without merit or efficacy in the eyes of the Lord.

But yet there exists a Temple Mount Faithful that seek to rebuild this Temple even at this late date. With all the trimmings of Herod's Temple from that earlier period.

Everything is being gathered together for that day.

The last time this group was reportedly going to the Temple Mount to lay the cornerstone for the next Temple, a riot occurred that is still referred to as the 'Battle for Temple Mount.'[/b]

"the rantings and ravings of a possible religious lunatic"

And your reply has been discredited several times.

FIRST, the sources you cited were in referrence to "overseas poor" not military aid to Israel.

SECOND, good and services purchase in the US and sent to Israel is still FREE GOODS AND SERVICES to Israel.



And neither addressed military aid to Israel. Only US aid to "poor countries."



And I have yet to find anything credible. In fact I have found almost nothing showing the amount of US aid to England or France. This leads me to believe it is not a newsworthy figure. The only thing I know for sure is these two LARGER countries receive less aid than Israel. How do I know? Because Israel receives MORE aid than any other country on Earth from the US. They receive 40% of the entire US Foreign Aid package.

And of course, according to you, anything England might get, well 80% is spent right here so it should be ok with you. And of course, at least Englans is fighting the war WITH US.

But I'll keep looking.



Just answer THIS question, please.

The United States military is in piss poor shape after the 8 year rape by Bill Clinton. It desperately needs soldiers, weapons, equipment and training. Especially in light of the NEW areas of operation we are likely to face in the next 10 years.

Meanwhile, we are siphoning off 3-4 BILLION dollars every year to Israel that SHOULD be spent on the United States military. If Israel plans on getting "in the shit" with us, and I mean right next to us, then we can supply them on a much lesser level. I think we've given them plenty to fight a war. All they need now is the commitment and willingness to go to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc. and fight RIGHT ALONG SIDE US.

So does ANYONE actually disagree that the 3-4 BILLION should be spent on the US military instead of sending it to Israel?

But I think I know your answer.

I don't see US soldiers drawing pay while overseas serving their country. If the US had bases in Israel, I'd support those US soldiers being paid as well. Neither is foreign aid. Furthermore, I'd rather pay the salaries of US soldiers in Antartica, then send it to some country that doesn't do jack for us.



We have bases in Europe, and elsewhere for strategic reasons. I hope I really don't have to explain why.



Whose beloved Germany? Mine? I was born in Iowa. Furthermore, my Grandfather was a member of the 15th Army Air Corps on a B24 crew and fought the Germans. Your insinuation is offensive to me and my Grandfathers memory.



Please show me where I am in favor of US aid to Germany in any significant(hell of any amount) amount. Maintaining a military presence is MUCH different from foreign aid.

Sorry but you won't get me with your, whats good for Germany is good for Israel approach.

First, Germany gets no where near the amount of aid that Israel does. NOBODY does.

Second, I could give a crap about Germany. I'm an American. If George Bush and NATO deemed all of Western Europe non stategic and completely abandoned it, I could care less.

[url]http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/current/petition.html[/url]

U.S. transfers billions of our tax dollars to Israel:


More U.S. aid goes to Israel (population 6 million) than any other country. In total, we give Israel more than 30% of our total world-wide bilateral aid. Each year we provide $2 billion in direct military aid, $840 million in direct economic aid, and $2 billion in loan guarantees, a total of more than $13 million every day. Since 1949, we have provided more than $84 billion overall. The economic aid continues even though Israel has a booming economy, with a gross domestic product exceeding that of many European countries deemed to be too wealthy for U.S. aid. The military aid continues even though IsraelÕs army is one of the worldÕs strongest and regularly uses excessive force.

Eric, I do hope JEWS are an acceptable/credible source for issues concerning Israel. Unless they are anti semetic liars also.

Now that 2 Billion in loan guarantees, how is 80% of that spent in the US? And "direct aid" doesn't sound like it is spent here, that sounds like "direct aid."

As for the money that IS spent here in the US.

U.S. aid continues the military-industrial complex at home
Israel is required to use three-quarters of the military aid to buy arms made in the U.S. It funnels this money to more than 1,000 U.S. arms suppliers, which in turn lobby for U.S. policies that benefit them. As a result, the diversion of our tax dollars not only reduces funding for education and social programs but worsens our public policy overall.


And hey Lib76 was right.

U.S. aid violates U.S. law
U.S. law prohibits the president from furnishing military aid to any country "which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights." 22 U.S.C. ? 2304(a). As the U.S. State Department determined in February 2001, Israel has committed and continues to commit each of the acts that the law defines as "gross violations of internationally recognized human rights," including "torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, prolonged detention without charges and trial, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, and other flagrant denials of the right to life, liberty, or the security of person." Id.


If anyone wants to sign a petition to stop US aid to Israel...

[url]http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/current/petition.html[/url]

Eric,

They are NOT my spiritual brothers, nor my physical.... nor are they neighbors or cousins. These idiots live half a world away or better. If I passed a jew shot by a pal terr, I would help him and try and shoot the terr since I carry daily. As it is literally written. But I dont live there. Nor does my government exist there. Neither does there exist any reason to send my taxes to help them. None. You have to earn the right to exist as a country... history is quite clear on this point. If I were you I would not worry a darn bit about israel... they will win, they are the strongest army in the region... period. The just need to quit pussyfooting around and get down to business.

Now, read my post correctly about rebuking you Eric. You are indeed my brother in Christ, as we have discussed before, we are of the body of Christ... how would you think otherwise?
And as far as the beam in mine own eye, lately it seems as if a whole tree got stuck in there.
I just would that you might take the higher road in this forum as we are representing cofC to thousands that read this. Know what I mean?
Lord but it tries the soul not to reply with a free reign to some of the posters here. But suffering is said to be good for the soul.

Anyway...

Your brother in spirit,
Dramborleg : )

Post from SteyrAUG -

Just saying it's so, doesn't make it so, SteyrAUG! And certainly not by any informative piece of information posted by you! You have declined to do any reasearch into the matter whatsoever!

All you can do is bellyache that 'the overseas poor' is a phrase that somehow was not used to describe all foreign aid.

It wasn't [u]my[/u] phrase, it was the Heritage Foundation's phrase, and as I have said, they are adamant in their opposition to any foreign aid!

Let's see some original website searching and reporting from [u]you[/u] - how's that for a challenge?

Show us where those F-16s purchased by Israel doesn't count towards the money they received.

Tell us about all the military hardware that they purchase from us doesn't keep Americans employed in Texas, Ohio and the Northwest.

C'mon, the field is clear, let's see some action!

Disprove me with facts, not bald-faced assertions!

Goods and services purchased in the US and sent to Israel are still goods and services that are being used in the defense of Western Civilization, my boy!

Would you rather [u]our boys[/u] have flown the mission to Iraq to blow up their nuclear reactor in 1981?

Where would our boys have flown from? Would Turkey have permitted that in 1981? Saudi Arabia (help me, I almost fell off my stool from laughing) in 1981?

Maybe the Persian Gulf? Oh yeah, put our boys in the mouth of the cannon!

The Israelis did it with our equipment!

Thank you Israel!

Ten years later in the Gulf War, we could attack Iraq without any fear of nuclear retaliation of any kind against the US or its allies!

[b]Whew![/b]

I believe that George W. Bush has submitted an increased military budget to Congress that covers all.

I would assume that he and his advisors have already figured Israel's share into the number.

Don't you? Of course, you do!

And if Bush and his advisors haven't, then I suppose Israel will just have to suck it up!

Right?

Eric The(BrutallyHonest)Hun[>]:)]

Post from Dramborleg -

An honest confession is good for the soul! I share in your rejoicing in Jesus Christ.

I know precisely what you mean, but I hadn't thought that I had revealed too much of my personal membership to many on this forum.

I would imagine most would think me a devout orthodox Jew![:D]

But you are correct, brother. I struggle for Israel. As did Paul - 'Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.' Romans 10:1.


I've heard that, I surely hope that it's true.

Eric The(Chastened)Hun[>]:)]

Yes it is

Post from SteyrAUG -

The Cold War's over, or so I hear, why do we need 91,000 servicemen with their dependents in Germany any longer?

Welfare for the Germans?

Couldn't they be stationed here as well?

No?

Well, let me tell you why it really, really doesn't bother [u]me[/u] that we keep forces in Germany - because the very same folks that you say keep forces in Germany for 'strategic' reasons, are the very same folks who give, squander, pizz away, or however you choose to described it, $3 Billion to Israel every friggin year!

If the military folks are sharp enough to have their reasons for keeping 91,000 troops and their families in Germany for a strategic reason, then I assume we should understand that they have their strategic reasons for keeping Israel well stocked of military hardware!

You see, SteyrAUG, where you and I differ is that I am [u]totally[/u] consistent.

If we give Israel $3 Billion each year, we get something from it.

[b]You may not know what it is, I may not know what it is, but someone somewhere knows just what we get![/b]

Isn't [u]that[/u] the most logical explanation?

And don't get so touchy about Germany, I can assure you that my German roots are just as solid as yours, and probably a whole lot more recent!

But they are no 'Israel'![:D]

Look at their voting record in the UN! What a farce they have become!

Eric The(Teutonic)Hun[>]:)]

Hahaha, you very funny.  I can't believe we're all still getting into pissing matches about Israel.  Fuck it.  I'm only posting to tell some of you less "informed" type that the Arabs DO NOT hate our music or our movies.  Haha, you know nothing.  

While under Taliban rule men were getting their hair cut JUST LIKE LEONARDO DI CAPRIO, like it was in titanic, because it was HIP, and in violation of the law.  Oh sure, they fucking hate Rap music, but who doesn't?  The Taliban even beat some of their barbers for doing the hair cut.  

After the Taliban fell, VCR's etc. were bought to watch AMERICAN and INDIAN films.  They love our culture, our money, cars, women etc.  They HATE our relationship with Israel.  Period.  France supports them, who do you think sold the biological/chemical processing equipment to Iraq pre-Desert Storm.  France.  

Fuck France, Fuck Israel, Fuck Britain, and this ones for especially for Saudi Arabia: "F * U * C * K ** Y * O * U"

I love you guys.

DONE.

[url]www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/current/petition.html[/url]

U.S. transfers billions of our tax dollars to Israel:


More U.S. aid goes to Israel (population 6 million) than any other country. In total, we give Israel more than 30% of our total world-wide bilateral aid. Each year we provide $2 billion in direct military aid, $840 million in direct economic aid, and $2 billion in loan guarantees, a total of more than $13 million every day. Since 1949, we have provided more than $84 billion overall. The economic aid continues even though Israel has a booming economy, with a gross domestic product exceeding that of many European countries deemed to be too wealthy for U.S. aid. The military aid continues even though IsraelÕs army is one of the worldÕs strongest and regularly uses excessive force.

Eric, I do hope JEWS are an acceptable/credible source for issues concerning Israel. Unless they are anti semetic liars also.

Now that 2 Billion in loan guarantees, how is 80% of that spent in the US? And "direct aid" doesn't sound like it is spent here, that sounds like "direct aid."

As for the money that IS spent here in the US.

U.S. aid continues the military-industrial complex at home
Israel is required to use three-quarters of the military aid to buy arms made in the U.S. It funnels this money to more than 1,000 U.S. arms suppliers, which in turn lobby for U.S. policies that benefit them. As a result, the diversion of our tax dollars not only reduces funding for education and social programs but worsens our public policy overall.


And hey Lib76 was right.

U.S. aid violates U.S. law
U.S. law prohibits the president from furnishing military aid to any country "which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights." 22 U.S.C. ? 2304(a). As the U.S. State Department determined in February 2001, Israel has committed and continues to commit each of the acts that the law defines as "gross violations of internationally recognized human rights," including "torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, prolonged detention without charges and trial, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, and other flagrant denials of the right to life, liberty, or the security of person." Id.


[b]Apparently you chose to ignore all this when you posted.[/b]

Post from SteyrAUG -

Not all are, SteyrAUG, and especially these wet noodles at jewishvoiceforpeace.

[b]No more than those demonstrating Berkley students represent a credible source for American views on the Middle East[/b]

Wonder what those Berkeley students and jewishvoiceforpeace think about gun control and any other of their favorite liberal BS idea of the moment.

But what I find so incredibly weak is that you would side with these weenies on this one issue!

There's probably (and hopefully) not one single other substantive issue on which you would agree with these folks, but yet you will agree with them that Israel gets too much money for (bad) military purchases, whereas the darker parts of Africa get too little money for (good) non-military purchases!

Jesus, SteyrAUG, can't you find any better allies than those?

But I suppose that when Israel is your enemy, you've got to take your allies where you find them.  Even if they are a bunch of limp-wristed, liberal, anti-gun, touchy-feely, tree-hugging idiots at Berkeley.

Having allies like that should embarrass you a whole lot more than having Israel as an ally embarrasses me. And that's a fact, Jack![:D]

See:[url]http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/340631p-2819694c.html[/url]

Eric The(EarthToAUG,ComeInAUG!)Hun[>]:)]

On another thread Shooter noted the most recent exercises staged from German bases. Furthermore, as I stated before but you ignored, I would have no objection to paying US soldiers stationed in a US base in Israel "if" such a base ever existed.

But for the life of me, I cannot understand what maintaing a military base anywhere in Western Europe has to do with 3 BILLION a year going to Israel, and not just 20% of it as we have discovered.

I can only think, you believe I am like you when it comes to Germany. That I will have some kind of "We must protect the Fatherland" response. But as I said before I am an American, Germans are NOT my concern.

Or it could be that you will focus on Germany, France, England, Elvis or Waldo in order to draw attention away from the issue at hand. That we give a disproportonate amount of money to Israel and get virtually NOTHING in return.



Spending money on US bases in Germany is NOT the same as spending money on Germans.



I think the funniest part of this whole thing is you belive the former Soviet states will never again be a viable threat.



AND THE REASON IS......People like you. People who put the welfare of Israel at a higher priority than even the United States.

Yes, you are totally willing to accept ANYTHING Israel may do and support it no matter what.



Did they buy the Emporer a new wardrobe?



There is nothing logical about the US/Israel relationship.



I have NO German roots. I got touchy feely about your suggestion I was biased toward Germany. My Grandfather bombed them in WW2 and if the day came when they declared war on the US, I would do the same. I have no allegiance to the Fatherland.



Finally something I agree with. They do not nearly begin to fuck us on the level of Israel. The get much less money and have committed troops to our operations in Afghanistan. Israel hasn't.



Ahhh, the UN your other buddy. Fuck the UN.

Erics religious posts generally read alot like scripture an seldom display emotion more intense than exasperation. Unlike the f*ck em let em die they'll burn in hell anyway if they don't come around to my way of thinkin B.S. that some people spew around here cause they seem to think their some self appointed prophet yellin at hookers on a street corner. By the way i didn't name any religous lunatics by name so why were you insulted? There's alot of people with a sh*tload of posts in the last year, did you recognize yourself or do you hate Eric and his point of view so much you thought you'd try an put the spotlight directly on him?