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Posted: 4/2/2002 9:08:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:15:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:15:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: Should Israel govt return dispute territories to Palestinian, IF you are in their shoe?
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Sure, why not? And we should return Kalifornia, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Manhattan, Alaska, etc.... The Arabs attacked Israel in 1967. They cost the Israelies money, lives and military supplies. They never paid for that. Israel captured some land, I say fair trade.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:20:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:22:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2002 9:42:54 AM EDT by White_horse]
I have stayed out of this political quagmire so far, but I thought I might add .02 here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the tenets of the PLO is the complete destruction of Isreal as a state. Mr. Arafat has never retracted this from his organization, so we can believe that it still holds. Do you think that by giving the Palestinians a homeland, they will simply resort to a peaceful co-existence with their neighbors? I wish the answer was yes, then I might, MIGHT alter my opinion a little. Sadly, I don't think that even a homeland will satisfy them. Here is a link [url]http://www.netaxs.com/~iris/plochart.htm[/url] -White Horse
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:27:25 AM EDT
Since the Palestinians have never controlled any territory, Israel can't "return" it to them.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:29:23 AM EDT
I'm with fight4yourrights on this one. Israel was attacked, Israel won, Israel gets to keep the lands. I don't believe it's fair to call it an occupation when Israel didn't fire the first shot. However, Israel has done land for peace deals before with countries like Egypt. The only problem is that Arafat and the Palestinians have proven they cannot be trusted.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:50:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest: Well Manhattan and Alaska were purchased fair and square .
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Many would argue otherwise. Lousiana Purchase would be another.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:55:00 AM EDT
Here's my opinion - (I KNOW you've all been waiting to hear this .. [}:D] ) I wish to see a free, sovereign and independent Israel. FREE - of fear and attacks by its neighbors. SOVEREIGN - to TRIPLE its land mass if it wishes, or to eradicate Palestinians from the earth, if it wants, free from US interference, or to banish its own citizens and give all the land to the Palestinians if it wants. The same kind of sovereignty we enjoy in this country. INDEPENDENT - doing whatever it wishes WITHOUT US tax dollar welfare. Sooner rather than later. It USED TO BE a conservative principle to get dependents OFF teh government teet, and throw them into the deep end of the pool, so they can learn to swin on their own, as quickly as possible. Its what has ALWAYS been advocated with our own black citizens, and Mexican / Hispanics as well. Apparently we conservatives abandon our own principles for our own convenience as often as the Liberals do. You see we SHOULD have learned from the Arabs who have NOW turned on us that ALL the tax dollars and aid we gave them back when mean NOTHING to them now that they are tired of our interference. Same will be true of Israel, because its true of human nature - other nations will ALWAYS use the USA to accomplish what they cannot on their own, but when they get to standing on their own two feet, our "aid" quickly becomes interference, and they bite the hand that feeds them. We SHOULD have learned this by now, but we appear doomed to repeat with Israel the mistake we made with the Arab nations.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:13:18 AM EDT
I'm not a Poly-Sci expert, but I have made some observations lately. Reading "Bravo Two Zero" about British commandos that were captured during Desert Storm, one of the first things the Iraqis started doing was yelling "Jew? Jew?" when they captured them. Several years later, Bob Cornuke was in Saudi Arabia looking for the Mt. Sinai of the Bible. When he was captured, the first thing the Saudis started asking was "Jew? Jew?". Earlier, he had been in the area with Jim Irwin, and they kept getting hassled by the Egyptian authorities, because they had an Israeli (rock scientist?) with them. I hadn't realized that practically every country over there hates the Jews. So, no, the Israelis shouldn't give anything back. Most of their neighbors will never be happy as long as any country named Israel still exists.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:15:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:24:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: With the current conflict between Israel and Palestine, taking a lot of factors into account, Should Israel govt return dispute territories to Palestinian, IF you are in their shoe? What will happen in the future, if Israel returns dispute terrirories to Palesinian? Will there be peace? Honest opinions please. Thanks
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The Israeli government offered to do this very thing within the last 3 or 4 years as part of negotiations that were ongoing at the time because Arafat had been asking for just that. Arafat then promptly rejected it. They don't want peace nor their own state, they just want the Israelis dead.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:30:30 AM EDT
Palestinians make up more than 50% of the population of Jordan. That seems like a good place to plant a Palestinian State flag.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:36:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Giving welfare to large groups of people and getting nothing in return but larger groups of the same people is not good for our continued existence.
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I can dig that.
Israel is an ally with very limited natural resources. For whatever time period we need them as an ally it will be necessary to partially support them. This is different than welfare.
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OK, but as the other thread points out, we ain't gettin much of what we "need" from them. 86 billion , and whadda we got? Another Jewish war, and deeper in rot. [}:D] Another FORMER conserative principle is that once ON the gov't teet, it be dang near neva' to get dem' off.
I, for one, am growing weary of the constant melodrama attempted in the "abandoning our principles" line, by you and others. The world is not operated in black and white. Paying for "friends" on an international level has nothing to do with abandoning ones principles.
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OK, yeah, the phrase "abandoning our principles" has been trotted out alot. And for the most part, I don't agree with those who use it. Don't lump me in with ANYONE else you've heard use this. But if "buying international friends" with the US tax dollar teet is to become policy, we're gonna hafta cut the Democrats some slack when they try to buy black / oppressed minority du jour votes by giving them YET ANOTHER teet to suck off of. Either "buying votes" (whether domestic or foreign) with STOLEN tax dollars is "kosher" (pardon the pun) or it ain't. I say it ain't. I say conservatives USED to beleive that. Use WHATEVER verbage you want, but my tea leaves are tellin' me we be mo' 'n mo' socialistic ever' livin' day. And I'm agin' it. BIG TIME.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:44:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 11:00:32 AM EDT
I am a die hard Israel supporter for religious reasons, however, I agree that USA treasury money should not be given to anyone. I do think that support is due them in other ways. We do have allies in this continuing conflict and I believe we can be soveriegn and allow them to be soveriegn while giving our assent to one side at a time and not both sides simultaineously (madness!). Planerench out.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 11:17:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Planerench: I am a die hard Israel supporter for religious reasons, however, I agree that USA treasury money should not be given to anyone. I do think that support is due them in other ways. We do have allies in this continuing conflict and I believe we can be soveriegn and allow them to be soveriegn while giving our assent to one side at a time and not both sides simultaineously (madness!). Planerench out.
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Well said sir. Politically, we seem to agree completely. No tax dollars - for EITHER side. Our policy HAS been madness. Religiously, I suppose we can either discuss, agree to diagree, or wait til heaven to see who is right. [:D] But to me, if a "religious " person TRULY wants to claim we need to support Israel, their credibility is IMMENSELY increased if they advocate PRAYER to God for Israel FIRST, and tax dollars a DISTANT second. I think you've said as much. When a religious person's FIRST inclination is to send tax dollars, I think its says ALOT about the "God" they serve. (that US tax dollars are MORE important than enlisting the aid of Almighty God) Methinks their "religion" is just a ploy for their politics. My $0.02.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:07:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:21:03 PM EDT
Let's be the "big guy" and broker a real land for peace deal. I propose that we let the Palestinians have Israel and in turn give New Jersey and New York to Israel.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 5:04:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 5:20:50 PM EDT
It's not about the land. There's absolutely nothing Israel can do to appease the Palestinians. This goes way back before Christ and will go on until the end of time. They demonstrated this when Israel offered more than they asked for about 3 years ago and the pals turned down the offer. The Pals will settle for nothing less than the disappearance of Israel and apparently feel strong enough about the cause to die for it. Hard to comprehend it.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 5:44:30 PM EDT
I can't belive what I've been reading on this post. A little touch of reality: 1. The Jews lived in that part of the world for a long time. 2. The Jews moved out when Europe became a better place to live than the stupid desert. 3. The Jews pissed the Europeans off wherever they went. 4. The Europeans started to treat the Jews like shit. 5. The Jews (that were still alive) said "to hell with crap, we going back to the desert". 6. The Jews became terrorist and kicked the poor Palestinians off the land they had lived on for many generations. 7. The Jews (in the name of security for the terrorist state they formed) put the Palestinians in concentration camps and treated them much like the Europeans treated them. 8. The Palestinians got fed up and started fighting back in the only way they could. Doing the same thing that the Jews did in Warsaw, in taking over Israel and other places. 9. The Jews came down hard on them in the name of security. 10 The US paid for the Jews treating the Palestinians like shit with the money of American tax payers. I'm on the side of the Palestinians. They have the moral high ground. Actually I don't care what happens to Israel providing no more of my tax money is used to support the terrorist state.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 5:53:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 6:00:32 PM EDT
Flash66 You may be right but I gotta know....are you a nazi?? Just kidding!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 6:09:42 PM EDT
Tom No I'm not a Nazi. I have nothing against Jews. I just think the Palestines are getting the short end of the stick and I don't like my tax money paying for it. Beekeeper I'm sorry I had to simplify my little lesson. It is supper time out here in East Washington and my wife is calling me.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 6:17:31 PM EDT
Let's face it... the middle east is one screwed up mess. Regardless of who did what to whom when, someone's going to have to "win" eventually. Let's get out and send the signal that the "gloves are off". After the dust clears we'll deal with the winner.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 7:07:23 PM EDT
when one power bitchslaps another, thats just the way it is. to the victor go the spoils. our little nation is a perfict example. spannish, french, and english took is from the natives, then each other, then we took it from them.
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