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Posted: 3/27/2002 4:17:30 PM EDT
This is my first post here,I hope this is the right forum. The high cap mag law here states that you can have a pre-ban high cap mag as long as it is temp. or perm blocked to except no more than 15 rounds. The law reads temp. blocked,The attorney general of NJ and the head of the state police have decided to get rid of the term "temp" blocked and force everyone to perm. block the mags,they have not said by what means this can be done or set any guidelines for this. If you call the state police firearms div. they in turn tell you to call the attorney generals office when you call that office they tell you to call the state police. Sound familiar? Ok here is my question how can the attorney general and the head of the state police change the wording in a law without the state senators voting on this? Thats all from the peoples republic of new jersey. JJ PS, Any help besides moving would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 5:12:48 AM EDT
Cant answer your question. Do you think it's legal to sit at the entrance of a gun club and take down license plate numbers? NJSP was doing it at Central Jersey last week....[:O]
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 6:00:04 AM EDT
Whew that is scary? Well I have heard conflicting stories. One is that the tempory block was not real. That it must be a weld to block it to 15, that the weld must not be removable. Alsoo that if you have abadge you are totally exempt, or that you are only exempt with department mags.....in truth, no one knows!
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 6:40:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ctrmass: Cant answer your question. Do you think it's legal to sit at the entrance of a gun club and take down license plate numbers? NJSP was doing it at Central Jersey last week....[:O]
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That is, by far, the most alarming thing I've heard around these parts in a long, long time. Can you even venture a guess as to WHY? I mean, even for the NJSP that doesn't make sense. What in the hell are they doing? Scare tactics? Are there going to be surprise home inspections in our future? Are our insurance rates going to go up EVEN MORE because we frequent gun clubs? As to the mag question, your dilemna is precisely what is wrong with this state. Its not necessarily that the gun laws are bad. Its the general attitude of government and law enforcement towards the whole issue. They resent the fact that we have guns and therefore will use every underhanded tactic at their disposal to make life hell for us. My advice, "dispose" (hint hint, wink wink) of your high caps and get a few postban Bushmaster mags for everyday use. This state voted this garbage into office and its getting exactly what it wants. I know you don't want to hear this but, it really seems the only option is escape into the free world. **FMJunkie checks the calendar again to see how long until his lease is up and he can leave**
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 8:34:10 AM EDT
Here is the "rule" change,it's still changing the laws without the senators voting on it if you ask me. WARNING! ATTENTION ALL BLOCKED LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE OWNERS! The State Police have proposed new Administrative Code Regulations which will turn 1000's of unsuspecting law abiding BLOCKED LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINE OWNERS into instant CRIMINALS. The new Regulations reverse the prior position of the State Police which allowed the possession and sale of Temporarily Blocked LCM's. 1000's of Temporarily Blocked LCM's have been sold by licensed NJ dealers to honest gun owners in reliance upon the prior written statements from the State Police. Note: A violation of the LCM Ban is a Crime of the 4th Degree (18 months Max. State Prison) Here is a direct quote from the proposal: N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 is amended to clarify that the definition of a large capacity ammunition magazine does not include an ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition. The definition is further amended to include an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin. The New Jersey Supreme Court has determined that in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1f, the term firearm was defined "not in terms of operability, but in terms of what the weapon was designed to do." See State v. Gantt, 101 N.J. 573, 583 (1986). A device no longer retains the characteristics of a firearm when "it has undergone such substantial alteration or mutilation that the instrument has completely and permanently lost the characteristics of a real gun." Id. At 590 (emphasis added). Based on the plain language of the statute and case law, the amendment modifies the definition of a "large capacity ammunition magazine" by inserting the word "permanently" in between "been" and "altered." The State recognizes that some of its representatives may have provided informal advice to the effect that an ammunition magazine may be temporarily blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds; however, the Attorney General has never expressly adopted this position. To the contrary, through the promulgation of this regulation, the State expressly rejects that interpretation of the statute. Any person who currently owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds is hereby advised that he or she may retain possession of that ammunition magazine until the effective date of this amendment, that is, the date the notice of its adoption by the Division of State Police is published by the Office of Administrative Law in the New Jersey Register, see N.J.A.C. 1:30-6.6. During this time period, a person who owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds shall either:
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 8:44:34 AM EDT
(1) transfer such ammunition magazine to any person or firm lawfully entitled to own or possess a large capacity ammunition magazine; (2) render such ammunition magazine permanently incapable of holding more than 15 rounds; or (3) voluntarily surrender the ammunition magazine pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12. After the effective date of this amendment, a person who owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds shall voluntarily surrender the ammunition magazine pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12 or risk prosecution for unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3(j). Finally, N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 has been amended to include a definition of "pistol grip" and "semi-automatic." These definitions are identical to those contained in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1(z) and (x), respectively. Specifically, "pistol grip" has been defined to mean a well-defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand, and "semi-automatic" has been defined to mean a firearm which fires a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger and is self-reloading or automatically chambers a round, cartridge or bullet. (EMPHASIS ADDED) To view the proposal in its entirety go to: http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm The public comment period is now! Submit comments by March 8, 2002 to: Colonel Carson J. Dunbar, Jr., Superintendent Attn: Firearms Investigation Unit New Jersey State Police PO Box 7068 West Trenton, New Jersey 08625
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 8:45:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: This is my first post here,I hope this is the right forum. ... The law reads temp. blocked ... Ok here is my question how can the attorney general and the head of the state police change the wording in a law without the state senators voting on this? Thats all from the peoples republic of new jersey. JJ PS, Any help besides moving would be appreciated.
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The law never said temporary or permanent. Basically, the wonderful NJSP doesn't enforce laws. It reads the laws, writes rules that are their interpretation of the laws and then enforces those rules. What they did here, was change (or propose to change) their rules. The end effect on us is a change of law. What a way to do business. Advice? What would I know? I moved into NJ. Join an active gun club. join the state association & lobby, lobby, lobby. Good luck & welcome to AR15.com
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 8:49:40 AM EDT
Norm you are right the old "rule" ?law said "been altered to except no more than 15 rounds" That to me says you can alter it any way you want as long as it does not except more than 15 rds right? And thanks for the welcome Norm. Where do you shoot?
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 8:59:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ctrmass: Cant answer your question. Do you think it's legal to sit at the entrance of a gun club and take down license plate numbers? NJSP was doing it at Central Jersey last week....[:O]
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Man that is fucking nuts ! I've been calling nj a communist state for years and this just proves me right. I wish nj would fall into the sea. Its a lost cause.
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 9:33:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: Norm you are right the old "rule" ?law said "been altered to except no more than 15 rounds" That to me says you can alter it any way you want as long as it does not except more than 15 rds right? And thanks for the welcome Norm. Where do you shoot?
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Under the old/current rule, yes. My favorite way was to slide off the foorplate and put 5 or 6 empties in under the spring. Presto chango, a 20 round mag that will now only accept 15 rounds. Now, who knows what it will take? The proposed rule even says that a pin is unacceptable. My home club is CRRC, just east of Trenton. I shoot mostly bullseye pistol, lots of places in [url]www.njpistol.com[/url]. I hope to get to a Garand match in Central Jersey and get my license plate taken down. PGM, tell me about the wonderful rules Philly makes up for itself. Where do you think the liberal politicians will go if NJ does fall off into the ocean? Hmmmm? Think of us as a barrier between you & them. You should be grateful to the NJ gun owners. [:)]
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 9:50:32 AM EDT
Everyone says move ,get out of NJ ,if all the pro gun people move to other states and give up the fight in our own states sooner or later the anti's will have even stronger holds and will move to branch out in your states and make no mistake they will. The only way to protect all is for everyone to keep up the good fight where ever they live. The funny thing is that right after sept. 11th all of the people I know who don't like or feel they need guns called my house to "borrow" a gun or ask if they could come here in case TSHTF and law and order broke down,ironic and hypocritical if you ask me and to answer your next question I said NO. Cold hearted bastard is what one x-friend called me ,cold hearted but safe. My wife ,who was not pro or anti gun before we met was damn glad we had the ability to protect ourselves in case we had to. Her favorite rifle is a mak 90 now and she is pretty good . At one point during the day on sept 11th my wife 's friend called and said there had been a run on food at the store she worked at and asked if we were alright food wise. When my wife got off the phone she asked me how well we were protected,I told her we could stand off about 500 rioters and looters for about a week, she smiled and I could see she felt alot better and that she felt safe knowing that the preparations I had made for our safety were in place. The look on her face was well worth the time it took to insure our safety.
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 11:47:07 AM EDT
I keep extra rifles and ammo for a few select people, never have enough in the end. I also like to take Deomcrats shooting. You have to love their faces after a mag (that is a NJ legal 10 round mag) in the AR.
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 3:24:42 PM EDT
ctrmass, can you tell me the source of your information about NJSP taking plate numbers of cars going into CJRPC? I've been a member since 1988. In 1990 after the Florio bill was passed we were told by the club president that he had to submit a list of all members to the State Police. The list had to be updated every year. I had no reason to doubt him. If that's true, than why would the NJSP need to copy down plate numbers of members if they already had a list will all the members? Something doesn't right. I shoot there regularly and never observed anyone outside the club property. I'm a little puzzled, but certainly would not be surprised if it were true.
Link Posted: 3/28/2002 3:31:23 PM EDT
As a graduate of Bernards High and a former resident of Bernardsville, I feel I'm qualified to say... FUCK NEW JERSEY! Know what living in New Jersey and banging your head on a brick wall have in common? It feels SO GOOD when you stop. Escape while you still can. QS
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 4:48:33 AM EDT
88, it happened to a guy I work with. There was a marked car on Stump tavern rd with a customer, and an unmarked in the driveway. When my friend drove in, the guy in the unmarked ducked, but you could plainly see the buzz cut......obviously a cop. When he was past the car, the cop popped his head back up. This guy is not a bullshitter, I believe him. I was there a few days later, and saw someone that's on the board. I told him this story. This could all just be coincidence, but I doubt it. Eric
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 4:57:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: As a graduate of Bernards High and a former resident of Bernardsville, I feel I'm qualified to say... FUCK NEW JERSEY! Know what living in New Jersey and banging your head on a brick wall have in common? It feels SO GOOD when you stop. Escape while you still can. QS
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As a Dunellen, NJ fugitive, I have to agree!
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 6:26:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ctrmass: Cant answer your question. Do you think it's legal to sit at the entrance of a gun club and take down license plate numbers? NJSP was doing it at Central Jersey last week....[:O]
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Somebody should have called the Sheriff and another somebody or somebodies should have walked out to his car with a pad in hand and took down the patrol car number and asked for his badge number. Even if it got nowhere, you would have sweated the trooper and he probably would have left. There must be something that can be done against this type of flagrant abuse of power. Maybe the gun club can sue for harassment(sp?)???
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 8:01:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: PGM, tell me about the wonderful rules Philly makes up for itself. Where do you think the liberal politicians will go if NJ does fall off into the ocean? Hmmmm? Think of us as a barrier between you & them. You should be grateful to the NJ gun owners. [:)]
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Philadelphia can't make ANY gun laws.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 4:50:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2002 4:55:29 AM EDT by ctrmass]
[/quote] Somebody should have called the Sheriff and another somebody or somebodies should have walked out to his car with a pad in hand and took down the patrol car number and asked for his badge number. Even if it got nowhere, you would have sweated the trooper and he probably would have left. There must be something that can be done against this type of flagrant abuse of power. Maybe the gun club can sue for harassment(sp?)???[/quote] Unfortunatly, NJ aint nothing like Maine. My Dad and Mom have a house in Albion Maine. Dad was at a gunshow last year where he witnessed a cop TELLING someone leaving the show that he wanted to see what's in his bag. This promptly turned into a yelling match (mostly the guy with the bag) he was yelling "You have no right to look in this bag", "You take that badge off and well settle this"etc.etc. Mr LEO put his tail between his leggs and hauled outta there. If this happened in NJ, there would have been a SWAT team at the guys house (assuming he made it that far) and TV coverage about "some lunatic holed up in his own house" The relationship between LEO's and citizenry in Maine is completely different than here in NJ. Back to the topic. My buddy wanted to back up and ask the cop "did you get my number yet?" but he had an unregestered pistol in the car. ctrmass~ BTW, sorry if I took this subject wayyy off topic. Any firearm questions you have can be answered by Det. Corbley. I believe he's in the West Trenton N.J.S.P. building.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 8:51:41 AM EDT
ctrmass, your right. It's not very wise to even attempt a confrontation with a "almighty" NJ cop. They can do no wrong in this state. Lets face facts, NJ is Gun Owners Hell!
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 9:23:17 AM EDT
Excuse me, but by what authority can the police, state or otherwise, [b]require[/b] a business to turn over its list of members unless they're investigating a crime? I'm no lawyer, but that is Mafia tactics.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 10:57:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 11:11:48 AM EDT
Wow, New Jersey really sucks.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:36:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 6:37:43 AM EDT by CB1]
NJ does Suck, That is why I was so happy to be offered a job here in Texas. I left NJ and I ain't going back. "What Texans can dream, Texans can do." -- President George Walker Bush Chris [@:d]
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:01:18 AM EDT
Seems to be a few guys here from NJ. I suggest we get together, with a few friends, march on Trenton and tell them what the Second Amendment really says.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:26:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 7:28:16 PM EDT by ctrmass]
Originally Posted By Nick1950: Seems to be a few guys here from NJ. I suggest we get together, with a few friends, march on Trenton and tell them what the Second Amendment really says.
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Both my wife and I were at the march during the Florio thing. Did a lot of good...didnt it? ~Not to piss on your parade or anything..... You see the way Mc Greedy runs things? Do you think a march will affect him? He's more of a scumbag than Florio was, IMO.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:54:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:04:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Nick1950: Seems to be a few guys here from NJ. I suggest we get together, with a few friends, march on Trenton and tell them what the Second Amendment really says.
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Just tell me when and i can bring at least 50 people. John
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:05:43 PM EDT
one more thing ,I think we should work on a way to sue the state and see if we can get this into fed court some how.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 9:52:33 PM EDT
What are you people going to do? They don't care what you think or say. Do you know why? They aren't afraid of you much, less respect you. You must make them realize that there are penalties for tyranny. Just like the guy at the gun show who refused to give into that cop.
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