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Posted: 3/20/2002 4:28:37 PM EDT
Change of administration = change of jack booted thuggery? I think not. It is business as usual and you people don't give a shit. [url]www.KeepAndBearArms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2321[/url] DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS February 25, 2002 CERTIFIED MAIL NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXX (withheld to protect a potential BATF victim) RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED Dear Maadi-Griffin Rifle Kit Purchaser, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has become aware that you are the purchaser of a Maadi-Griffin rifle kit. This kit is a firearm as defined under Title 18, United States Code 921(a)(3). Please be advised that this firearm was manufactured, possessed and sold by the Maadi-Griffin company in violation of Federal law. Because the firearm was involved in these violations, it may be seized and forfeited. However, ATF's primary concern in this matter is that the above-described firearm was sold without being stamped with a serial number and that, therefore, it will be difficult to trace should it be used in a crime in the future. ATF recognizes that you may have purchased this firearm without any knowledge of the above mentioned criminal violations. Therefore, so long as it is otherwise lawful for you to possess firearms under Federal law (ie. so long as, for instance, you have not been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year), you may retain possession of the Maadi-Griffin firearm you have purchased under the following conditions: (1) within thirty (30) calendar days after your receipt of this letter, you must call Special Agent XXXXXXXXXXX at (XXX) XXX-XXXX, and obtain a serial number; (2) within forty-five (45) calendar days after your receipt of this letter, you must have this serial number stamped on the receiver of the firearm, and; (3) within forty-five calendar days after your receipt of this letter, you must complete the enclosed certification form and submit it to ATF [address of local BATF office withheld so BATF doesn't know who to target with their sub-American, state-sanctioned violence]. As an alternative, you may abandon the firearm to an ATF Special Agent. We appreciate your cooperation in this matter. Sincerely, BATF Agent's Name Withheld so BATF doesn't know which office this letter came out of, to reduce the chance of violence against an innocent American citizen
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 4:38:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2002 4:44:34 PM EDT by cluster]
Are these the .50 cal "kits" that where found to be almost complete firearms... technically you still had to complete some work on them, but very very little... Cluster... edited to add............ From page 2 I have made this certification freely and voluntarily, and without any [b]coercion or duress[/b] Damn If the letter is not coercion or duress what is? Cluster….
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 4:47:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 4:49:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cluster: Are these the .50 cal "kits" that where found to be almost complete firearms... technically you still had to complete some work on them, but very very little... Cluster...
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They were 80% finished kits, just like the 80% AR15 lowers that are currently being sold which are not legally considered firearms. The kit .50 bmg "completed" by the ATF that was used in the Stewart trial was "test fired" with a BLANK, not a live round. You could do the same thing with a piece of pipe and a hammer. Standard MO by the ATF.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:01:37 PM EDT
OK, Its my understanding thats what they were [b]suppused[/b] to be. 80% lowers.. but with the AR15 80% lowers there is still alot milling to do. Damn it I cant find the link but I read that these lowers were simply completed by folding the metal in to the final shape.. preindented where the folds should go.. Feel like an ass posting with out a link to the story .. but oh well... Cluster... PS . am in no way taking sides just want to know the whole story..
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:02:00 PM EDT
"it will be difficult to trace should it be used in a crime in the future." I have often wondered how serial numbers help "trace" a weapon... I guess a bank robber would enter the bank and yell "All right, give me all your money or I'm gonna shoot you with this .50 cal, serial number 12345." Now, if every gun in America were given the same serial number, say 12345, this problem would be solved. Any gun could be traced because its serial number would be known. It would not be necessary to stamp serial numbers on guns or receivers because the number would be known. And even if a criminal filed off the serial number it would still be known. This would also obviate the need for the BATF to write threatening letters like the one mentioned here. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:15:40 PM EDT
We all know its not about them trying to trace the firearm IF a crime is committed. Its all about them putting another nail in our coffin.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:42:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: I have often wondered how serial numbers help "trace" a weapon...
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Pretty simple..... Every "new" gun is usually (Most always) purchased through a licensed dealer the first time around requiring the yellow form registration. This gives law enforcement etc....a starting point to "trace" the weapon. Without a serial number you have no way to trace it. Example: News at 11....Shooting occurred and a Remington 870 shotgun was found at the scene identified as the murder weapon. Agents report only 2 million shotguns of this type exist so it should be easy to find who owned it.[whacko] ............... Now if they had a place to start. Say John smith bought that serial numbered shotgun in 1982 at Joe Bob's gun shop. Now they go find John Smith. John Smith says he sold that shotgun to his brother-in-law in 1988 named Pete Smith. Pete Smith sold it to Bob White who used to work with him. Bob white is no where to be found and his family hasn't seen him in 3 days. Looks like we have a good suspect. Alternate ending: Bob White got broken into in 1994 and that shotgun was reported stolen or not reported because at the time Bob White did not have any paper work or never wrote down the serial number of his shotgun. Now the cops have to take a new angle..... But the serial number does help that's why criminals like to file those numbers off weapons.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:47:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beagles747: But the serial number does help that's why criminals like to file those numbers off weapons.
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They should drill, not file. A hole cannot reveal what used to be there, a filed area can.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:38:45 PM EDT
Post from the beekeeper1 -
I never bought one, but I heard of a guy who did, but subsequently sold it to a stranger, in a bar, while in a drunken stupor. I wonder how this affects him.
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'Him' who? 'Him', your friend, or 'him' the guy he sold it to? Unless the guy your friend sold it to was an undercover ATF agent, cop, or knows who your friend is, then your friend has no problem. The guy he sold it to does. Eric The(CaveatEmptor)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:48:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 8:06:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cluster: OK, Its my understanding thats what they were [b]suppused[/b] to be. 80% lowers.. but with the AR15 80% lowers there is still alot milling to do. Damn it I cant find the link but I read that these lowers were simply completed by folding the metal in to the final shape.. preindented where the folds should go..
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I don't know what you read but it was wrong. The Maadi receiver comes to you as a hollow tube that you have to mill. I think you are confusing the Maadi-Griffin with an Egyptian Maadi AK which uses a folded receiver.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:47:25 PM EDT
IIRC, The agent in question assembled the kit with hand tools and fired a blank round from it. Granted, it was a blank, not a live round, but the key is that he assembled it without have to cut metal and it doesn't have to [b]safely[/b] fire a live round to qualify as a firearm. If it did, them all those Hollywood machineguns and semiautos wouldn't be firearms either. Lame, Imbroglio. Really lame.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 9:00:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fn_hipower: The Maadi receiver comes to you as a hollow tube that you have to mill. .
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"Mill"? only if you consider a Dremel Tool a milling machine.
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