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Posted: 3/20/2002 5:31:33 AM EDT
Sometimes, its an embarrassment living in Texas: BEDFORD - Taylor Hess says the 10-inch bread knife found by a school security guard in the bed of his pickup was accidentally left behind from a box of personal belongings owned by his ailing grandmother. But the knife could end up costing the 16-year-old honor student the rest of his junior year of high school. Hess was expelled from L.D. Bell High School two weeks ago under Texas' zero-tolerance weapons policy. An appeal is set for Thursday. School officials have said their hands are tied by the policy, despite the student's claim that the knife was left by accident after he and his father boxed up his grandmother's linens, books and kitchenware to drop off at a Goodwill store. His father said the policy is misguided and leaves no room for extenuating circumstances. "Zero tolerance doesn't mean zero judgment or rights," Robert Hess said. Gene Buinger, superintendent of the Hurst-Euless-Bedford School District near Dallas, said Tuesday that Hess' expulsion was mandated by the state education code. "We're very limited in what we can do," Buinger said at a news conference. "I understand the public's frustration. I'm frustrated, too." Hess is just one of many students across the nation to be expelled after violating zero-tolerance policies, which were created to prevent school violence and keep campuses safe. Students have been punished for handing out mints to classmates, possessing a nail clipper and taking a plastic ax to a class Halloween party under these policies. Some have been arrested. An 8-year-old boy in Jonesboro Ark., was suspended for three days after pointing a breaded chicken finger at a teacher and saying, "Pow, pow, pow." Last year, the American Bar Association voted to recommend ending the policies, saying they are unfair and inappropriate for many children. "Zero tolerance has become a one-size-fits-all solution to all the problems that schools confront," said a report accompanying the resolution. The Texas Education Agency spokeswoman Adrienne Sobolak cautioned that the education code doesn't have the words "zero tolerance" written in the policy and said the local districts do have some discretion in determining punishment. "Every case has to be looked at individually," she said. "People have to use their common sense and discretion to make any decision." Buinger said school officials could shorten Hess' expulsion because the teen had a knife, not a gun. For now, Hess is taking classes at a local alternative school. He faces the possibility of being placed in the Tarrant County Juvenile Justice Alternative Education Program, although Hess hopes the appeal before district officials will allow him to return to Bell.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:33:58 AM EDT
Zero tolerance equals zero thought. I have zero tolerance for people who support zero tolerance policies. It's my policy. [:D] Thank you for showing that article. CJ
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:53:02 AM EDT
Someone should walk through the parking lot and drop a .22lr cartridge in EVERY car, including the teachers. Walk the halls and drop one in every locker. Call the school security and tell them. Get everyone expelled. Maybe someone will pull their head out of their a$$ and get some common sense.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 6:41:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JPPJ: Sometimes, it's an embarrassment living in Texas:
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Hess is just one of many students [red]across the nation[/red] to be expelled after violating zero-tolerance policies, which were created to prevent school violence and keep campuses safe.
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What makes you think this has anything to do with Texas? This is a disgraceful nationwide overreaction, as the article [b]you[/b] posted clearly states. If you think things are better anywhere else, Delta's ready when you are.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 6:55:55 AM EDT
The public school system in this contry are a mockery! That's ALL I care to say on this matter
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:01:24 AM EDT
Ohh now come on Jarhead_22, don't be such a jar head. Sometimes you Marines are so damn emotional--that's why I joined the Army. [:(!] Hey man, I like living in Texas, thats why I am here. But, having lived in and having visited several other states, I have come to the undeniable conclusion that Texans can be very vindictive. The example I posted above illustrates that. [}:D] So why don't you go guard an embassy somewhere and chill out. [@:D]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:06:30 AM EDT
Knee jerk reaction fueled by fear beats out common sense once again.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:14:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:18:39 AM EDT
No, JPPJ, the example you posted illustrates the [b]nationwide[/b] trend toward zero-tolerance, zero-thought, zero-common sense rules that lead to little kids getting arrested for having a one inch replica of a six shooter for a key chain. Nothing that was described in that article is specific to Texas. We're just not immune from the idiocy is all this shows. The same thing would have happened in New York or Nebraska under those circumstances. You joined the Army because we "jar heads" are so emotional, then you post something like:
Sometimes, its an embarrassment living in Texas
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Uh, yeah. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:21:16 AM EDT
Zero Tolerance does indeed egual a zero thought and administrative process. The process, or lack thereof, is not limited to the great state of Texas.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:27:25 AM EDT
Students have been punished for handing out mints to classmates, possessing a nail clipper and taking a plastic ax to a class Halloween party under these policies. Some have been arrested. An 8-year-old boy in Jonesboro Ark., was suspended for three days after pointing a breaded chicken finger at a teacher and saying, "Pow, pow, pow."
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[size=4]WHAT THE FU*K?!?![/size=4] This must be a mistake. Tell me it's a mistake. And pass the sauce. I've got a bucket of chicken fingers to dip.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:33:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2002 7:34:11 AM EDT by littlemarine]
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: No, JPPJ, the example you posted illustrates the [b]nationwide[/b] trend toward zero-tolerance, zero-thought, zero-common sense rules that lead to little kids getting arrested for having a one inch replica of a six shooter for a key chain.
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I've got spent shells on my keys. I've been searched before and they didn't say anything. Even if they did I wouldn't take them off.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:36:40 AM EDT
I agree with Zero Tolerance policies, but COMMON FUCKING SENSE must always apply!!!!! There are just too many f'ing morons running around in this country!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:53:11 AM EDT
HERE YOU GO, [b]GO GET EM[/b] Dr. Gene Buinger leads the district's administration buingerg@hebisd.edu Or Deputy Superintendent for Instruction Donna Rawlings rawlingsd@hebisd.edu Here's another one L.D. Bell High School Principal Jim Short shortj@hebisd.edu
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 8:13:44 AM EDT
Nothing like that ever happened in the early 60s when I was growing up. If I would have got kicked out of school for having a knife in the truck box Ill bet my grandpa would have beat that fuckin principal to within a inch of his life and nobody and I mean nobody would have said or did anything about it. Oh for the good old days when you could buy a 20mm Lathi anti tank rifle through the mail for 99.95.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 8:22:21 AM EDT
Oh for the good old days when you could buy a 20mm Lathi anti tank rifle through the mail for 99.95.
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GASP!!! But... but what about the [b]children!?!?!?![/b]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 8:25:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:13:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: Someone should walk through the parking lot and drop a .22lr cartridge in EVERY car, including the teachers. Walk the halls and drop one in every locker. Call the school security and tell them. Get everyone expelled.
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I actually think this is a great idea, if the kids at school had enough balls to get together, buy a butt load of those cheap $2 auto-zone pocket knives and plant them in every locker and car. That would make national headlines...[b]90% of high school expelled in protest![/b] If an individual student being railroaded doesn't inspire public outrage, an entire school should!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:48:14 AM EDT
Good ole days. I grew up in a rural farming community. Went to HS in late 80's, early 90's. HighSchool: 7th Hr Shop class, "Hey Sam, can I bring my handgun in for a few seconds after class to make a template for that display case I'm making? I wait till everyone is gone." Sam: "sure, but drive your car around and keep it low profile" After getting verbal permission from my shop teacher (Sam), I walk in though the shoproom overhead door after class (~3:30pm) with a cased S&W 629 so I can fit it to a presentation case i was making my father for Christmas. That would never fly nowadays, even where I grew up. The gun still sits in that very case in my Father's "gunroom". It turned out awesome. I also remember a friend bringing in a 12ga and compound bow for a english class presentation on Whitetail hunting.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:54:41 AM EDT
I think they are making their case of ZERO TOLERANCE. ZERO TOLERANCE is and means ZERO tolerance. Can anyone interpret that an any other way? I guess they made their point. I get people all the time that park in Fire Zones. The sign says NO PARKING FIRE ZONE. People say "but I was only going to be gone for 5 minutes!" Well folks the sign DOES NOT say "NO PARKING unless your only going to be gone 5 minutes!" DUHHHHH. I guess the schools want to get the point home that there is ZERO telerance for weapons on school property. They are clearly making their point for the morons.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:55:53 AM EDT
Damn, the school I went to in the 60s was so tough you got sent home if you didn't pack heat!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:59:24 AM EDT
Take people that have had any ability to reason or to think critically systemically removed by years of "education" and bombardment of the media. Add a dash of programmed responses to certain words (knife, gun, etc...). Stir in a large helping of mindless administration, burdened with volumes of insane rules and regulations created by bureaucrats and lawyers that do nothing but protect their ass and what do you have? You have systems, organizations and individuals that should have been removed from the gene pool years ago but never will because the system now protects the system, not individuals or ideas. Not part of the flock.... BAAAAAAADDDDDD! [stick] Sometimes I'd really like to find where to put the boot disk in this planet and FDISK the whole damn thing....
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 11:08:26 AM EDT
Believe it or not, the legislature currently in session here in GA has a bill before it that would allow (hang on to your hats) DISCRETION by school boards in application of weapons and drug policies! WHOA - is this a great country or WHAT???!!!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 11:14:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 9:34:45 AM EDT
we have got to get the gov't out of our schools if we are ever going to teach our children. privatize em, run for the school board and try to convince em to sell the darn things. support vouchers etc. if you can afford to, send your kids to private schools.[kill]
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 10:41:05 AM EDT
When I was back in high school (circa 1990), I was one of about five students who did volunteer work for the school, maintaining their computers, and what-have-you. At one point, the school security wanker found me taking the case off of a PC using the screwdriver on my swiss army knife. He immediately dragged me to the principal's office and demanded that I get a 3-day suspension[0] for having a weapon. I told the principal, "Mr. Jones, I've been carrying this knife here for the past three years. I use it to fix the school's computers, so you don't have to call the county in to do it. There are currently six computers in the building that are in need of repair. I can have them working by the end of the day. Or you can suspend me, and prohibit me from carrying this absurd little knife, and the computers will remain broken until you can get the county to agree to come and try to fix them." The Principal looked at me, looked at the security officer, looked at my knife, said it looked awfully dull to *him*, and sent me on my way. -BP [0] Compared to what they're inflicting now, that's nothing, but I was a goody-goody in school, and 3 days sounded pretty dire.
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 11:46:10 AM EDT
Right now in the Phoenix area Az. I'm very active about the "zero tolerance" policy. I have ritten a lot of letters to most of the local politicians reinforceing the policy; as a matter of fact I made sure to them to understand TO KEEP the policy active. Also along with this I have mentioned in my letters a plan to give the faculty a more lenient review, as in they can do whatever thay want without the fear of being held responsible. Don't ask why I do this but the more rope you give someone the better...
Link Posted: 3/21/2002 12:14:13 PM EDT
Well gosh and golly video rangers - Sero Tolerance = Zero Common Sense. I grew up in rural IN. I used to take my granddad's .22 (I had a shotgun) to school to take rabbits and squirrels with on the way home. I kept the UNLOADED rifle in my locker, and the box of ammo in my pocket - the only time both were in the same place was when they were in my hands. I made - and registered! - a suppressor for a single-shot .45 I made in metal shop. Both are legal, both are registered, and my grandfather STILL hunts with them. Not a long-range piece, but works well and quietly close in. I mowed lawns for a whole summer to get the money for the Solothurn 20mm that I STILL have. Cost me around $129, if I recall... I have carried a knife of some sort just about every day since I was 5. I had it explained to me that no man in completely dressed without a blade - it's just too damn useful not to have. My kid sister still carries MY first knife (with blade, scissors, nail file, and flat screwdriver.) My preferred blade is now a Benchmade repro Emerson CQC7LH. You should see the reactions I get in courthouses and airports with the damn thing when I forget to leave it in the truck... I find it amazing that a blade over two inches long - fixed or folder - is a felony to carry in the post office. I only found out recently - I have used mine at the counter for years opening boxes when I pick them up. No-one has said anything - right up to last week! School shootings were unheard of when most of us were kids for one principal reason - if you had a gin-you-wine brain fart like that your old man would have killed you himself. Period. All done. BTW - your old man would probable have been given a medal and the key to the city if and when... When I learned to shoot, "Zero Tolerance" meant making a mistake got you whacked in the head. Worked well on me, worked well on my kids. Just like for me, I explained it all to them. The human psychological pain mechanism is a wonderful teaching tool... "Didn't need no welfare state, Everybody pulled his weight,Jeez the old LaSalle ran great, Those were the days!" FFZ
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