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Posted: 3/13/2002 1:43:16 PM EDT
Crap! They just added a sign at my bank that says no firearms are allowed. I am thinking about changing banks because I like to go in the bank everyday when I deposit money from my store. I always have heavy bags of change so the drive thru is difficult. I have a different bank that is a local mom and pop bank that is about 65 yards from my place of business. It will be a lot of work to change banks SO tell me what you guys think. I am in Arkansas where you can carry concealed unless posted otherwise and the regular fed. stuff. Your thoughts?
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 1:47:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 1:49:34 PM EDT
Does AK have definitive laws regarding signs prohibiting handguns. In TX, the sign has to comply exactly with state law to be enforceable.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 1:51:54 PM EDT
Hmm, now that you can't bring a gun into the bank it should be so much safer since the bank robbers will only be allowed to use knives and such. Unless maybe they ignored the rule.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 1:53:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 1:58:50 PM EDT
To wwoodworth, I spoke with the assistant branch manager today and she said it was a corporate thing that they recently went through. This was a local bank a few years ago, but now it is Regions Bank which is huge. I told her I was not happy, and she understood because she always carried before she started working there. I agree with your thinking. To Houston, Thanks for the reply, actually it is AR. I understand your question completely but don't know the answer. I just don't want to push it. I got another bank so close and I spoke with their branch manager today and she said she didn't really know much about the issue but had no knowledge of the bank banning CCW in the near future. There is another bank 3/4 of a mile away where I am friends with the manager and she carries in the bank always. So many options.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 1:59:24 PM EDT
Stupid signs like stupid laws, should be ignored, you're conceal carrying anyway right so who would know?
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 2:05:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By haulingice: To Houston, Thanks for the reply, actually it is AR.
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Mea Culpa. I actually know the difference, but in discerning the difference, the fingers typed the wrong abbreviation.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 2:31:00 PM EDT
Just move to Texas - here the sign has to be in both English and Spanish, it must actually cite the particular Texas code that permits them to put their premises off limits, and it must be conspicuously posted...etc. If any element is missing, it ain't a sign! Eric The(IDon'tGoWhereI'mNotWanted)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 2:39:54 PM EDT
To hellraiser, Yes it is concealed, but I don't think I like the idea of a doing business with such an anti firearm bank when other banks are closer and their have no problem with CCW.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 2:47:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: Here in TX, I carry all the time in places where firearms are "prohibited". Unless their sign complies with state law, it's completely legal. But, if you are caught, you will be asked to leave, and will probably be arrested for trespassing if you don't. Still, the CCW is perfectly legal.
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Brou, As I understand it, you are correct, except, I thought that without the correct, legal sign, that someone can only ask you to leave, but has no legal recourse. When I do my CHL stuff soon, I'm gonna ask about that. If they could have you arrested when they don't have the required signs, then it would mean they could have you arrested for just about anything else they don't like about you. M@
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 2:49:32 PM EDT
Just move to Texas - here the sign has to be in both English and Spanish, it must actually cite the particular Texas code that permits them to put their premises off limits, and it must be conspicuously posted...etc. If any element is missing, it ain't a sign! Eric The(IDon'tGoWhereI'mNotWanted)Hun
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Just move to Texas... I never heard that from a Texan before. All my AF buddies from Texas say "come on down and visit" with the emphasis on visit. AR guys must be more liberal.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:09:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2002 3:14:04 PM EDT by Maddog50]
Originally Posted By AR15FENCER: As I understand it, you are correct, except, I thought that without the correct, legal sign, that someone can only ask you to leave, but has no legal recourse.
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PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder: ...(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and ...(2) received notice that: ......(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or ......(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart. (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication. (c) In this section: ...(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b). ...(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f). ...(3) "Written communication" means: ......(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (con-cealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or ......(B) a sign posted on the property that: .........(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish; .........(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and .........(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. (d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. So, it seems that some one can tell you to get lost and it will have the foce of law behind it.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:18:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maddog50:
Originally Posted By AR15FENCER: As I understand it, you are correct, except, I thought that without the correct, legal sign, that someone can only ask you to leave, but has no legal recourse.
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PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder: ...(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and ...(2) received notice that: ......(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or ......(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart. (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication. (c) In this section: ...(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b). ...(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f). ...(3) "Written communication" means: ......(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (con-cealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or ......(B) a sign posted on the property that: .........(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish; .........(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and .........(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. (d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. So, it seems that some one can tell you to get lost and it will have the foce of law behind it.
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What that seems to read to me, if I can translate the legalese, is that the sign has to have the language set forth in section (3)(A). So just a 'no guns' sign, would [i]not[/i] be adequate. Because of the difference between the (3)(A) and (B) sections, it could be construed that you have to have a sign with the correct language, OR one with 1" letters. I think this needs clarification from a lawyer or professional. The way I read it, the sign still has to read like it says. A simple "no guns allowed" would not fly. M@
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:22:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: Stupid signs like stupid laws, should be ignored, you're conceal carrying anyway right so who would know?
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You couldn't have said what I was thinking any clearer. I used to work a kiosk inside a wal-mart with a sign like that, I never gave it a second thought. The worst I think they will do is ask you to leave... but then if yer doing it right the only time anybody would know you were carrying is when you cap the guy that walks in waving a shotgun at the teller. Then they might be a little more understanding.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:34:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15FENCER: What that seems to read to me, if I can translate the legalese, is that the sign has to have the language set forth in section (3)(A). So just a 'no guns' sign, would [i]not[/i] be adequate. Because of the difference between the (3)(A) and (B) sections, it could be construed that you have to have a sign with the correct language, OR one with 1" letters. I think this needs clarification from a lawyer or professional. The way I read it, the sign still has to read like it says. A simple "no guns allowed" would not fly.
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I went through the instructor's course at DPS in 1999, but I don't pretend to be a lawyer. You are right that a simple "no guns" sign won't cut it. (c)(3)(A) Pertains to a card or document. Some employers might make you sign one of these. Then you've received written notice under 30.06. (c)(3)(B) Says that signs must contain the proper languange, color/height, and must be posted conspicuously. Or the manager with a shotgun to her head can simply ask you to leave when you produce your handgun to save her. [whacko]
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:35:10 PM EDT
Time to find another bank, I would
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:05:34 PM EDT
Be careful of metal detectors sprouting up. You never know what a regional bank might do to enhance security. The convention center in Charlotte NC has metal detectors in the door frames...you never know you went throught them.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:11:29 PM EDT
Make a photo of the 'firearms prohibited' sign and have a sign shop make one that matches it, saying this: "Bank robbers, your cooperation with this rule is appreciated." Then install that sign on the bank's wall one night, directly below the first one. To be quick and silent, use epoxy putty. Other possible signs: "Attention bank robbers: The people inside are not armed and have no defense against you. There is no need to shot us when robbing this unprotected bank." At least, make up these signs on your computer, print them out, and give them to the branch manager as "suggestions to make this a safer bank". CJ
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:19:07 PM EDT
I'd look up the consequences of ignoring the sign in the arkansas code.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:24:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: has to be in both English and SpanishEric The(IDon'tGoWhereI'mNotWanted)Hun[>]:)]
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..AND THAT'S A GOOD THING?
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:43:23 PM EDT
Come to FL, there is no sign clause in the CCW law at all. Thus, if you are carrying anywhere but the prohibited places on the list, the worst thing anyone can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave, or leave and come back, they can charge you with trespassing.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:56:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: has to be in both English and SpanishEric The(IDon'tGoWhereI'mNotWanted)Hun[>]:)]
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..AND THAT'S A GOOD THING?
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Yep. Anything that makes it more difficult for someone to keep me from carrying a gun is good in my book.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:07:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: has to be in both English and SpanishEric The(IDon'tGoWhereI'mNotWanted)Hun[>]:)]
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..AND THAT'S A GOOD THING?
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Yep. Anything that makes it more difficult for someone to keep me from carrying a gun is good in my book.
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Well where I come from, the less Spanish speaking people, the less need to carry said gun.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:35:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:46:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WWoodworth: You could always ask the bank management why they want to promote a "safe for the bank robber" environment.... WWoodworth
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In Connecticut all banks are robber friendly![stick] State law, no CCW in banks.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:52:24 PM EDT
The branch of the bank I use just moved to a new location. At the new location they have two doors that you must go thru to get to the lobby. Between the two doors is a metal detector. If the metal detector goes off the inside door locks. I do not know about the outside door. This just advertises your self-defense status. Not good. I am considering changing banks because of this.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 10:00:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: Well where I come from, the less Spanish speaking people, the less need to carry said gun.
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LOL. That's funny, and I even speak Spanish (like everyone else down here where I live). [(:|)]
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 10:23:54 PM EDT
Just my two cents' worth... Change banks. That is not enough - make sure to hand a letter to the branch manager when you draw your account out to forward up thru the management chain, to the effect that you feel your money is not safe (make sure to mention your MONEY and not you, you have to hit them where it hurts! But, hit on where you feel your money is not safe somewhere citizens are not allowed to assist in defence, and you are going somewhere where they are! For the basic situation, be grateful you actually HAVE the option - we here in the Glorious People's Republic of Kalifornia don't even have the ability to go for CCW, without being a legislator or some damn thing. Time to leave to AZ... FFZ
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 10:46:29 PM EDT
I carry a KEL-TEC P40 fully loaded (nine+1) less than 1+1/2 ,but i take it off (leave it in the truck) when i go in to the post office,bank, or any government office just so that i don't have to justify the secound admendment to people who are by the way have no idea of what it is all about! And if i am not big enough to know the state laws about just that CCL license that i carry then maybe they are right and i am wrong i don't need to have one!! If its not a government build ,town hall public assembly ,voteing place,gambling facility race track, indian owened tribal lands, place that sells only drink and not food, school property and oh yes school ground parking lots, and if you think about it the bank is guarentied fed deposits(GOV) that leaves a lot of places you can't carry(even though you have a CCL) If you go into a resturant that has a NO-=GUNS sign on the door(in okla most resturants dont have one because that would ensure that a gun weilding thug could have a field day there) You can still go in ,but if you get made its just a simple treaspass and out you go,, no big deal.. The gun i carry is so small i have never been made, but is it worth it ? you go into the post office to mail a letter,the bank and get made, Do you really want to go through the shit you will go through to prove you are a allright guy ... When all you had to do was put your shit under a coat while you deposited your check?
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 10:50:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: Well where I come from, the less Spanish speaking people, the less need to carry said gun.
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Hahahaha. Very funny - slightly racist, but very humorous nonetheless. I didn't think Washington was a big place for Spanish speakers? I guess even Mexicans like looking north and making fun of Canadians as much as we do.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 11:09:38 PM EDT
Hey mountain jew when them can-nucks get through with you , you will shaken and not stirred! Don't mess with canada...JAMES BOND>>>
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 11:39:23 PM EDT
Well where I come from, the less Spanish speaking people, the less need to carry said gun. [/quote] lol
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